Which WTA great had the toughest competition during their overall reign
- Thread starter davey25
- Start date
Joe Pike
Banned
I think this has to be Graf.
She battled and beat Evert, Navratilova, Mandlikova in her her early slam tournaments. Then she had to cope with Sabatini, Seles, Sanchez, Capriati, Novotna. And later with Davenport, Hingis. V. Williams.
And guess what?
She doesn't have a losing record against any of those greats!
davey25
Banned
My order would be:
1. King part #2 1972-1974
2. Williams sisters 2000-2003
3. Court part #2 1969-1971
4. Evert 1975-1981
5. Seles 1991-early 1993
6. Henin part #1 2003-2007
7. Graf part #1 1987-1990
8. Graf part #2 1993-1996
9. Court part #1 1962-1965
10. King part #1 1966-1968
11. Navratilova 1982-1987
12. Serena 2008-present
1. King part #2 1972-1974
2. Williams sisters 2000-2003
3. Court part #2 1969-1971
4. Evert 1975-1981
5. Seles 1991-early 1993
6. Henin part #1 2003-2007
7. Graf part #1 1987-1990
8. Graf part #2 1993-1996
9. Court part #1 1962-1965
10. King part #1 1966-1968
11. Navratilova 1982-1987
12. Serena 2008-present
Joe Pike
Banned
Capriati won 3 slams in 2001/02.
In which other era do you think she would have been able to do that?
Late 50s maybe?
davey25
Banned
Well I think she got very lucky. She was really only about the 9th best player around then after Serena, Venus, Davenport, Seles (yes even past her prime), Mauresmo, young Clijsters, young Henin, and Hingis, but she draws broke her way and she got an insane amount of luck.
Joe Pike
Banned
Capriati beat Davenport, Seles, Hingis in the AO 2001.
Serena, Hingis, Clijsters in the FO 2001.
And Mauresmo, Cljisters, Hingis in the AO 2002.
All your giants of the times.
davey25
Banned
She never once beat Venus. She had bigtime losing head to heads with Davenport and Serena, even moreso Davenport. She had a losing head to head with a past her prime Seles, Mauresmo, and pre prime Henin during this time too. Apart from Hingis who choked whenever they played in 2001-2002 the only other one she had even an equal head to head with was a pre prime Clijsters at 3-3, and Kim choked bigtime in 2 of those. So she really was only about the 7th-9th best player and just got a huge amount of luck.
Joe Pike
Banned
You are one of the more sane posters here in TW, Davey.
But with this inexplicable 2002/03 worshipping you have dug yourself into a hole.
As I indicated, US tennis fans were desperate after more than a decade dominated by non-US players. Then Venus, Serena, Davenport, Capriati and US-Seles took over. Interest soared. The US media hopped on the wagon again. The US-dominated WTA wanted to market the "young guns".
It's the same with men's tennis. Tennis is only "dying" when non-Americans dominate.
2008 was NOT a great year b/c there wasn't Henin and Clijster around. Plus, Maria with an shoulder injury was non-existent. I think Serena simply wasn't that good and that's why she only won 1 slam. Slamless Jankovic end the year #1, and Ivanovic reach #1 and won RG. Unless you say these are great competition then we would have to disagree with you. And this is coming from an Ivanovic fan.
Since Justine/Kim is back, now you are talking!
Circular reasoning They were one slam wonders in part because of the greatness of Graf and Seles. If you don't get many chnaces to play big matches, you don't get experience you need to win them. Great champions never get the credit for denying their opponents of long term top level confidence. they just play in a 'weaker' era they hlp create.
davey25
Banned
Well you do make a good point there. I do think Sabatini and Novotna imparticular are in ways much better than 1 slam winners (not sure on Martinez). I still dont think they are better players even for their time than Venus, Henin, Davenport, or Clijsters though. Sabatini was victimized by the greatness of Graf and Seles, but she also was unable to overtake Navratilova in the rankings until Martina was 34 (and even then only in part to Martina playing a limited schedule), and her own shortcomings in mental fortitude, serving, and a few other areas were as much her undoing as Graf and Seles being there. Novotna wasnt that major an all surface threat relatively speaking, grasss and indoors are the only surfaces she seemed like a perrenial threat to win on. On hard courts Jana was sort of in there but it always felt like it would be a big upset for her to win anything on it even during the Hingis era. Conchita Martinez even moreso seemed only a major threat to win on clay most of her prime years, her Wimbledon title was a huge surprise at the time.
davey25
Banned
Well if there was one I apologize. I dont recall it.
See this link:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=254672&highlight=competition
There are some good arguments in that thread by posters who unfortunately no longer contribute to the board.
Not sure if Evert's actual reign was tougher, but the circumstances in which she thrived to to get there were astonishing. Nothing but great S/vers with 3 of 4 slams on grass venues and a blossoming indoor season. Court and King and Goolagong, and Wade and Casals, and Reid and Tunrbull etc How on earth does a slow clay court girl with no serve and poor volleys ever climb up without major hiccups? I don't care how aged Court is or how bad Kings knees are or how cavalier Goolagong is, they are all time fast court greats. I always say it is about an era, AND a surface. Once she gets there, its less impressive than how she got up with no knock downs worth mentioning
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anointedone
Banned
Evert's consistency vs a field so demanding for his game style given the surface distribution and playing style of the top women is extremely impressive you are right. Navratilova even vs the very shallow 82-86 field wasnt even able to totally match Chris's consistency (some odd really early exits and surprise losses) as a young clay court molded baseliner vs that field of grass court friendly players when most of the tour was on grass.
Polaris
Hall of Fame
Yes, davey25 would not recall it because that poll was begun by grafselesfan. How convenient!
BTW, grafselesfan and davey25 are also the same person.
Joe Pike
Banned
Polaris
Hall of Fame
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Polaris
Hall of Fame
GrafSelesfan is actually the dead guy in my basement.
Check again. He isn't dead, just unconscious after assuming roles of capriatifanatic, federerfanatic, grafrules, grafselesfan, federerhoogenbandfan, justinheninhoogenbandfan, davey25, nadalgirl26, cuddles26, thalivest, anointedone, navratilovafan, etc, etc, etc.
Of course, you find nothing wrong with this, so do go and revive him.
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