WHO ARE THE 20 BEST CLAY COURT PLAYERS EVER?

[buscemi]

In alphabetical order, here's my working list of the top 19:

-Borg (6 French Open titles)​

-Cochet (5 French Open titles)​

-Courier (2 French Open titles, another final, 2 Italian Open titles)​

-Djokovic (3 French Open titles, 4 other finals, 6 Italian Open titles, etc.)​

-Drobný (2 French Open titles, 3 other finals)​

-Kuerten (3 French Open titles)​

-Lacoste (3 French Open titles)​

-Laver (2 French Opens, made another finals, won the French Pro Championship)​

-Lendl (3 French Open titles)​

-Nadal (14 French Open titles)​

-Nastase (won the French Open w/out dropping a set, 3 Monte Carlo titles, 2 Italian Opens)​

-Pietrangeli (2 French Open titles, made 2 other finals, 3 Monte Carlo titles, 2 Italian Opens, German Open)​

-Tilden (most clay wins in history, made 43 straight clay finals, 7 U.S. Men's Clay Court Championships [couldn't play at the French Open in his prime])​

-Trabert (won the French Open in 1954 & 1955, turned pro, then won the French Pro Championship in 1956 (and 1959))​

-Rosewall (2 French Open titles, made another final, 4 French Pro Championships)​

-Santana (2 French Open titles; referred to as the greatest clay court player of his generation)​

-von Cramm (2 French Open titles, made another final, 6 German Opens, 2 Monte Carlo titles)​

-Wilander (3 French Open titles)​

-Wilding (won two World Hard Court Championships on clay, 313–13 (96.01%) record on clay, won 120 clay matches in a row [couldn't play at the French Open])​

That leaves one spot for a lot of contenders.

 

[nolefam_2024]

In alphabetical order, here's my working list of the top 19:

-Borg (6 French Open titles)​

-Cochet (5 French Open titles)​

-Courier (2 French Open titles, another final, 2 Italian Open titles)​

-Djokovic (3 French Open titles, 4 other finals, 6 Italian Open titles, etc.)​

-Drobný (2 French Open titles, 3 other finals)​

-Kuerten (3 French Open titles)​

-Lacoste (3 French Open titles)​

-Laver (2 French Opens, made another finals, won the French Pro Championship)​

-Lendl (3 French Open titles)​

-Nadal (14 French Open titles)​

-Nastase (won the French Open w/out dropping a set, 3 Monte Carlo titles, 2 Italian Opens​

-Pietrangeli (2 French Open titles, made 2 other finals, 3 Monte Carlo titles, 2 Italian Opens, German Open)​

-Tilden (most clay wins in history, made 43 straight clay finals, 7 U.S. Men's Clay Court Championships [couldn't play at the French Open in his prime])​

-Trabert (won the French Open in 1954 & 1955, turned pro, then won the French Pro Championship in 1956 (and 1959))​

-Rosewall (2 French Open titles, made another final, 4 French Pro Championships)​

-Santana (2 French Open titles; referred to as the greatest clay court player of his generation)​

-von Cramm (2 French Open titles, made another final, 6 German Opens, 2 Monte Carlo titles)​

-Wilander (3 French Open titles)​

-Wilding (won two World Hard Court Championships, 313–13 (96.01%) record on clay, won 120 clay matches in a row [couldn't play at the French Open])​

That leaves one spot for a lot of contenders.

Djokovic won his 3rd French

 

[Tennfan123]

1. Borg 2. Nadal. 3. Kuerten. 4. Lendl. 5. Rosewall. 6. Bruguera. 7. Muster. 8. Courier. 9. Kodes. 10. Orantes. 11. Panatta. 12. Federer. 13. Laver. 14. Ferrero. 15. Agassi. 16. Moya. 17. Corretja. 18. Vilas. 19. Connors 20. Djokovic

 

[Jonas78]

If no Nadal how many Roland Garros titles for Federer? I think 2005,2006,2007,2008,2009,2011 . Six that is as many as Borg. But we need to let that go. Reality is what is important

But is Nadal reality?

 

[buscemi]

1. Borg 2. Nadal. 3. Kuerten. 4. Lendl. 5. Rosewall. 6. Bruguera. 7. Muster. 8. Courier. 9. Kodes. 10. Orantes. 11. Panatta. 12. Federer. 13. Laver. 14. Ferrero. 15. Agassi. 16. Moya. 17. Corretja. 18. Vilas. 19. Connors 20. Djokovic

No Wilander (among the Open Era group)?

 

[BauerAlmeida]

If somebody thinks that Vilas was the 3rd best clay courter, I give up.

Vilas gained lots of wins on clay by the equivalent of playing 250/500's. It's picking the best of grass courters by choosing the winners of Queens and Halle.

Vilas is not #3.

However, he has 2 clay slams and that's only one fewer, as much, or more than anyone else not named Nadal or Borg. And I don't think anyone puts him anywhere near those two.

And he lost 2 RG finals to Borg. He can easily be compared to anyone outside the Big 2, even if I would put him below Lendl.

 

[bobcolbert]

The question is about clay and not about Roland-Garros only. Vilas is definitely in the top 5 or even the top 3 because he's the record holder for the number of matches won on clay (in a way he's even number one) ! And number 2 (behind Nadal) for the number of tournaments won on clay !

 

[CHillTennis]

Unpopular opinion but I actually think Fed and Djoker are rated too LOW on this list. Rafa has just skewed this entire generation and wrecked Fed and Djoker's clay results. But if you put prime Djoker and Rafa on the court at RG it was a battle ... its just that Rafa would edge out the battle. Doesn't mean that Lendl was a better clay courter than Djoker and Fed just because Rafa beasted this era.

** I will say its hard to compare any of these guys due to different racquets, ect.

100% agreed. Also, Robin Soderling should definitely be on this list.

He is the only player besides Novak Djokovic to have beaten both Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal at Roland Garros.

 

[buscemi]

The question is about clay and not about Roland-Garros only. Vilas is definitely in the top 5 or even the top 3 because he's the record holder for the number of matches won on clay (in a way he's even number one) ! And number 2 (behind Nadal) for the number of tournaments won on clay !

While there are all sorts of statistics out there, Tilden is generally thought to be the player with the most wins on clay. A poster on here combed through all the records and came up with:

Total regular wins on clay​

Player Wins​

1. Bill Tilden 744​

2. Guillermo Vilas 699​

 

[nolefam_2024]

Don't posters directly mean red clay when they say clay?

Or any version of clay is ok?

 

[Olli Jokinen]

1. Borg 2. Nadal. 3. Kuerten. 4. Lendl. 5. Rosewall. 6. Bruguera. 7. Muster. 8. Courier. 9. Kodes. 10. Orantes. 11. Panatta. 12. Federer. 13. Laver. 14. Ferrero. 15. Agassi. 16. Moya. 17. Corretja. 18. Vilas. 19. Connors 20. Djokovic

That Wilander guy was pretty good. Where is he?

 

[Olli Jokinen]

No Wilander (among the Open Era group)?

Oh no, guys like Bruguera and Moya are clearly better, right?

 

[timnz]

The question is about clay and not about Roland-Garros only. Vilas is definitely in the top 5 or even the top 3 because he's the record holder for the number of matches won on clay (in a way he's even number one) ! And number 2 (behind Nadal) for the number of tournaments won on clay !

Open era that is. A fair number of players above those tournament win totals in the amateur era eg Wilding, Drobny. Though I would agree, on the whole that Open era players are better (for the men).

 

[timnz]

While there are all sorts of statistics out there, Tilden is generally thought to be the player with the most wins on clay. A poster on here combed through all the records and came up with:

Total regular wins on clay​

Player Wins​

1. Bill Tilden 744​

2. Guillermo Vilas 699​

In the professional era 1930s/1940s would nusslein be ahead of Tilden H2h on clay?

 

[timnz]

In alphabetical order, here's my working list of the top 19:

-Borg (6 French Open titles)​

-Cochet (5 French Open titles)​

-Courier (2 French Open titles, another final, 2 Italian Open titles)​

-Djokovic (3 French Open titles, 4 other finals, 6 Italian Open titles, etc.)​

-Drobný (2 French Open titles, 3 other finals)​

-Kuerten (3 French Open titles)​

-Lacoste (3 French Open titles)​

-Laver (2 French Opens, made another finals, won the French Pro Championship)​

-Lendl (3 French Open titles)​

-Nadal (14 French Open titles)​

-Nastase (won the French Open w/out dropping a set, 3 Monte Carlo titles, 2 Italian Opens)​

-Pietrangeli (2 French Open titles, made 2 other finals, 3 Monte Carlo titles, 2 Italian Opens, German Open)​

-Tilden (most clay wins in history, made 43 straight clay finals, 7 U.S. Men's Clay Court Championships [couldn't play at the French Open in his prime])​

-Trabert (won the French Open in 1954 & 1955, turned pro, then won the French Pro Championship in 1956 (and 1959))​

-Rosewall (2 French Open titles, made another final, 4 French Pro Championships)​

-Santana (2 French Open titles; referred to as the greatest clay court player of his generation)​

-von Cramm (2 French Open titles, made another final, 6 German Opens, 2 Monte Carlo titles)​

-Wilander (3 French Open titles)​

-Wilding (won two World Hard Court Championships on clay, 313–13 (96.01%) record on clay, won 120 clay matches in a row [couldn't play at the French Open])​

That leaves one spot for a lot of contenders.

Tilden did win the World Hardcourt championship on clay in 1921 which was basically the French Open pre-1925 because it was open to all nationalities

Wilding also won 5 Monte Carlo's, Homburg Cup (Championship of Europe), 4 Riviera Championships in Menton, 4 South of France Championships in Nice, Pöseldorf Cup (Championship of Germany) in Hamburg - all on clay

 

[timnz]

No
No no

If we remove Borg level player and then say Borg and fed are equal then it's very wrong. There is no if not Nadal. Fed lost 6 times and Nole 8 times. If you can't beat them then you are not worthy.

Sure. But it is worth saying that Federer was probably the second best clay court player on the earth from 2005 to 2011 excepting 2010. In 2011 you may dispute that, perhaps it was Djokovic, but Federer did beat Djokovic in their most important match at the French Open Semi's.

 

[I get cramps]

That Wilander guy was pretty good. Where is he?

He lives near Higueras in Idaho, and Mats is difficult to reach. Jose sees him exceptionally, and when this happens, they chat. Reaching him is no simple task:

Interviewer: I will ask a question that few people can answer: What is it like to live without WhatsApp?

Joan Aguilera: During our recent meeting with former Davis Cup players, Vittorio Selmi (ATP manager) and I discussed this topic: 'Juan, you don't have WhatsApp, just like Mats Wilander!' He told me that contacting Mats was almost impossible, something very complicated.

 

[Olli Jokinen]

He lives near Higueras in Idaho, and Mats is difficult to reach. Jose sees him exceptionally, and when this happens, they chat. Reaching him is no simple task:

Interviewer: I will ask a question that few people can answer: What is it like to live without WhatsApp?

Joan Aguilera: During our recent meeting with former Davis Cup players, Vittorio Selmi (ATP manager) and I discussed this topic: 'Juan, you don't have WhatsApp, just like Mats Wilander!' He told me that contacting Mats was almost impossible, something very complicated.

Funny. I still wonder why that guy didn't add him to the list of best claycourters.