I have yet to experiment enough with different setups to compare the effects of both. Unfortunately, I have only 1 racquet right now and it is hard to compare the specs on different days.
The only thing that doesn't make sense is recoil weight and mgr/I are inversely proportioned if I want to keep the same swingweight. I can't increase both at the same time if I don't want to increase the swingweight.
Let's say I want to keep the swingweight at 335 and recoil weight around 162.
Then I have two options

StaticSWRWMGR/I
343.7037​
335​
161​
20.90033​
338.99408​
335​
162​
20.74964​
Assume the ideal rw is 162. Which one will be more natural to swing?
I would prefer the 343g option, it's a good weight without being heavy, and it would have a balance point that is close to my preference.
 
My short answer to your question, @devoker, is that’s too close a call for anyone but you to make. I’ll only add that, while the spec difference between these two setups is small, they’ll FEEL noticeably different. If you’re after a smidge more power, I’d go with the 161rw option and its heavier weight and higher MgR/I. For a bit more maneuverability, I’d go with the 162rw option.

Either way, I think 335sw is a good max swingweight to set for yourself since TWU Prof. Lindsey’s research suggests that anything above 340sw slows racquet speed enough to slow ball speed for most players.
 
Yesterday, I noticed something which I haven't thought before. I noticed the weight of the racquet increased almost 5 g and I was sure there was no extra weight added. Then I noticed the overgrip was soaking wet after playing for couple hours. It seems that the sweat added almost 5g (I am using a dry absorbent grip). I calculated the swingweight, static, and recoil weight again and the sweat adds +2.5 recoil weight :)
2 days later, the grip has dried a bit and now it is +1 g.
Probably very hard to notice the difference as it gradually builds up during play but I found it very interesting.
 
That said, yes, Sinner's setup is unique among top pros and something I'm advocating for rising juniors and other expert amateurs; namely, the low weight / medium (for pros) swingweight combo. This replaces high weight with a higher balance point, which improves maneuverability while replacing the old school source of power (mass) with the nouveau one (racquet head speed).
Is that because low mgr/I setups are harder to swing and a lot more demanding.
I am noticing the same between my two racquets, same swingweight and recoil weight, 1st one is heavier but 20.72 mgr/I and the other one is 5g lighter but 20.54 mgr/I. The lighter one feels much harder to swing although it is lighter.
 
Theoretically, @devoker, if you have two racquets of equal SW and RW, the one that's (5g) lighter with a lower (20.54) MgR/I should be easier to swing, not harder. So what's with the fact that you experience the opposite? The answer may be in what you mean by, "much harder to swing."

What does harder-to-swing mean to you? In general it means clunkier: slower and less maneuverable. Is that what you're experiencing? If so, how exactly does the easier racquet feel easier? Is the difference across-the-board or on specific strokes? And are the weights you're trying here close to what you're used to playing, or are they significantly heavier or lighter? I'm fascinated to hear.

Whatever your answers, I suggest that you follow the direction you experience versus the one you "should." It's been said that my RW Table is too specific. I get that objection. My answer is in the OP; the table's a starting point, not an end point. Yes, it's designed to give one a very specific starting point. But don't we want that when we're exploring, if only as a point of reference to return to, a place on a map? I do. And, as you're discovering, even the same recoil weight can feel noticeably different when you're changing up 2 of the Big-3 specs. (And I applaud that, in this way, you're using the table as it was intended to be used.)

Given that so many combinations can reach any one RW or RW range, it's actually useful to have a road on which to explore new territory. If the RW road is telling you to go with more mass that's weighted more toward the handle, then I say go that direction. But do be aware that sometimes the "harder" swinging racquet may turn out to produce better results. So give yourself time to get used to a setup before abandoning or adopting it. When I first switched to a 333g, 32cm, 331sw setup from 325g, 32.4cm, 333sw, the extra 8g felt harder to swing. It still does. But I discovered that I play more dynamically with it because it forces me to.

Re. added handle weight from sweat soaking into an OG, yes! I've measured much the same change for myself, and yet, have not heard it discussed before. It means that over a 2 hour match on a hot humid day, one's RW can increase by 2 RW-points. That's a noticeable difference that could indeed affect your play.
 
When I say it feels harder to swing, I mean I need to more work to bring it to the correct spot while swinging as if it was heavier. I don't know it is hard to explain.
 
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Has anyone figured out a formula to estimate twistweight based on head size, static weight, SW & balance? I'm pretty sure that it's possible to estimate within a respectable range based on the other specs. Any thoughts? Trying to see what kind of twistweight is average for a pro/high level spec.
 
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Has anyone figured out a formula to estimate twistweight based on head size, static weight, SW & balance? I'm pretty sure that it's possible to estimate within a respectable range based on the other specs. Any thoughts? Trying to see what kind of twistweight is average for a pro/high level spec.
That's not something you can estimate by just looking at those specs (although they are correlated somehow, any estimation can be so far off from the actual). It all depends on the weight disribution and needs to be measured.
 
That's not something you can estimate by just looking at those specs (although they are correlated somehow, any estimation can be so far off from the actual). It all depends on the weight disribution and needs to be measured.
I'll make a separate thread on this to not derail the discussion on recoil weight
 
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That's not something you can estimate by just looking at those specs (although they are correlated somehow, any estimation can be so far off from the actual). It all depends on the weight disribution and needs to be measured.
Just an update on this. I have two racket's matched to the same static weight, SW and balance. The first one has a twistweight of 13.4 and the other one has a twisteight of 13.9

I realized that I don't mind the difference because sometimes I do prefer the lower TW one and vice versa depending on the opponent. I always thought I needed all my rackets to be exactly the same, but I am moving away from this concept and realizing that there's always going to be slight variance between rackets.
 
I realized that I don't mind the difference because sometimes I do prefer the lower TW one and vice versa depending on the opponent.
Mind expanding on this? Under what scenarios and/or against which types of opponents / balls to you prefer higher or lower TW, and why? Thanks in advance!
 
Theoretically, @devoker, if you have two racquets of equal SW and RW, the one that's (5g) lighter with a lower (20.54) MgR/I should be easier to swing, not harder. So what's with the fact that you experience the opposite? The answer may be in what you mean by, "much harder to swing."
Jumping back into this thread after a considerable absence as I've been a very crazy setup to huge success, and I just wanted you to know, Brando.

320g
34.2cm
337SW
150RW
20.46mgri

Pretty massive departure from my usual 343g | 31.6cm | 331 SW | 171 RW | 20.7 MGR/i.

I think the interesting semantic discussion is about "easy." The 320g racquet is quite easy to swing fast. Low static, tiny RW, pretty whippy mgr/i. However, it is NOT easy to swing accurately. I need way more time on returns and it's tremendously challenging to time shots if I'm rushed. As soon as I have a second to breathe, it's game over from my opponent though.

My feelings about high vs low mgri are that higher mgr/i are a lot easier to time which makes them feel easy to use. You could say, it's easy to swing and find success. Low mgri would be easier to accelerate, but harder to find success with.
 
Jumping back into this thread after a considerable absence as I've been a very crazy setup to huge success, and I just wanted you to know, Brando.

320g
34.2cm
337SW
150RW
20.46mgri

Pretty massive departure from my usual 343g | 31.6cm | 331 SW | 171 RW | 20.7 MGR/i.

I think the interesting semantic discussion is about "easy." The 320g racquet is quite easy to swing fast. Low static, tiny RW, pretty whippy mgr/i. However, it is NOT easy to swing accurately. I need way more time on returns and it's tremendously challenging to time shots if I'm rushed. As soon as I have a second to breathe, it's game over from my opponent though.

My feelings about high vs low mgri are that higher mgr/i are a lot easier to time which makes them feel easy to use. You could say, it's easy to swing and find success. Low mgri would be easier to accelerate, but harder to find success with.
You will find middle gound like I did...330gram, 32.2 -32.5 cm,,160rw, 333 sw
 
Jumping back into this thread after a considerable absence as I've been a very crazy setup to huge success, and I just wanted you to know, Brando.

320g
34.2cm
337SW
150RW
20.46mgri

Pretty massive departure from my usual 343g | 31.6cm | 331 SW | 171 RW | 20.7 MGR/i.

I think the interesting semantic discussion is about "easy." The 320g racquet is quite easy to swing fast. Low static, tiny RW, pretty whippy mgr/i. However, it is NOT easy to swing accurately. I need way more time on returns and it's tremendously challenging to time shots if I'm rushed. As soon as I have a second to breathe, it's game over from my opponent though.

My feelings about high vs low mgri are that higher mgr/i are a lot easier to time which makes them feel easy to use. You could say, it's easy to swing and find success. Low mgri would be easier to accelerate, but harder to find success with.
Yes, that was exactly what I was talking about. High mgr/I one feels heavy at first but it feels easier to position for contact.
 
Okay, now you've really done it!! This stuff is so interesting, that I've stayed up way too late tonight!!
And to think,... all these years, my wife insisted that "recoil weight" was the upper boundary of weight
where she was sure to recoil in horror, usually after an all-you-can-eat pizza party. Never too late to learn!
------ So Be It ⚜ ------ Uhhh, if you're not going to eat that last slice,..........
 
Mind expanding on this? Under what scenarios and/or against which types of opponents / balls to you prefer higher or lower TW, and why? Thanks in advance!
I'm still in the testing phase, however the main advantage of a lower twistweight racket is it's easier to not overhit. This is good if you are playing an opponent who runs down a lot of balls and relies on consistency. The downside is the torsional stability isn't as great and this is noticeable if you play someone who can rush you where as you might leave a few balls shorter than normal. It's also easier to find the extremities of the court.

The higher twistweight racket hits a flatter ball and you can play closer to the baseline. I find this set-up to work really well against serve & volley type of players where the points are short. The downside is that there can be a tendency to overhit if you don't properly set-up (balls going long) so if I was playing someone who wasn't pressuring me in the first 2-3 shots it may not be worth it.

My go-to right now is to start with the lower twistweight, and if I lose the first set rather easily (like 1-6 or 2-6) I'll switch to the higher TW one for the second set.

For practice I like the lower twistweight because it's easier to manuver and I'm not under a lot of pressure during a practice session.
 
I'm still in the testing phase, however the main advantage of a lower twistweight racket is it's easier to not overhit. This is good if you are playing an opponent who runs down a lot of balls and relies on consistency. The downside is the torsional stability isn't as great and this is noticeable if you play someone who can rush you where as you might leave a few balls shorter than normal. It's also easier to find the extremities of the court.

The higher twistweight racket hits a flatter ball and you can play closer to the baseline. I find this set-up to work really well against serve & volley type of players where the points are short. The downside is that it's very easy to overhit (balls going long) so if I was playing someone who wasn't pressuring me in the first 2-3 shots it may not be worth it.

My go-to right now is to start with the lower twistweight, and if I lose the first set rather easily (like 1-6 or 2-6) I'll switch to the higher TW one for the second set.
Good stuff. Made me think about the opponents I've played lately, and it mostly lines up. Though I did think about an opponent who is a dual threat -- he both gets to a lot of balls and tends to take my time away. Versus such a player, what would you typically choose? Me, I would probably take the higher twist-weight frame at perhaps a bit lighter spec than what I might otherwise, and couple it with the highest-tension, grippiest string bed necessary to get enough shot curvature, without compromising too much on effortless depth.
 
Good stuff. Made me think about the opponents I've played lately, and it mostly lines up. Though I did think about an opponent who is a dual threat -- he both gets to a lot of balls and tends to take my time away. Versus such a player, what would you typically choose? Me, I would probably take the higher twist-weight frame at perhaps a bit lighter spec than what I might otherwise, and couple it with the highest-tension, grippiest string bed necessary to get enough shot curvature, without compromising too much on effortless depth.
That's a good question. If I was mainly losing points from coughing up short balls I would use the higher TW racket. If I was losing points from hitting too many errors then probably the lower TW one.

As far as choosing a higher twistweight frame at a lighter spec, I'm finding this difficult with a 95. (Which explains why most players opt for 98-100 sq inch rackets) When you keep adding twistweight to a 95 it's easy for the static weight to get too high (like into the 350g+ territory) because 1g at 3 & 9 doesn't change the TW on a 95 as much as it would on a 100.

I'm still doing experiments on which one I serve better with. So far I'm preferring the lower twistweight frame as it works better for my motion & mechanics. It's easier to pronate. I wish there was an objective way to keep track of serve stats with each frame.

Part of me is almost like, just get the recoil weight you want (~160) and if the twistweight is too low then just change to a larger headsize, which is probably a easier way to figure out what you like but that would require money. :p
 
I'm still in the testing phase, however the main advantage of a lower twistweight racket is it's easier to not overhit. This is good if you are playing an opponent who runs down a lot of balls and relies on consistency. The downside is the torsional stability isn't as great and this is noticeable if you play someone who can rush you where as you might leave a few balls shorter than normal. It's also easier to find the extremities of the court.

The higher twistweight racket hits a flatter ball and you can play closer to the baseline. I find this set-up to work really well against serve & volley type of players where the points are short. The downside is that there can be a tendency to overhit if you don't properly set-up (balls going long) so if I was playing someone who wasn't pressuring me in the first 2-3 shots it may not be worth it.

My go-to right now is to start with the lower twistweight, and if I lose the first set rather easily (like 1-6 or 2-6) I'll switch to the higher TW one for the second set.

For practice I like the lower twistweight because it's easier to manuver and I'm not under a lot of pressure during a practice session.
What exactly are the specs you are playing with in these examples, weight, balance, sw and tw?
 
What exactly are the specs you are playing with in these examples, weight, balance, sw and tw?
Yonex Vcore SV 95

Racket #1 - 343g, 32.3 bal, 329 SW, 13.4 TW, 158 RW, 21 MGR/I

Racket #2 - 343g, 32.3 bal, 329 SW, 13.9 TW, 158 RW, 21 MGR/I

Racket #3 - 343g, 32.1 bal, 329 SW, 13.6 TW, 161 RW, 20.9 MGR/I

I've been testing racket #1 and 2 for the difference in TW.
 
Yonex Vcore SV 95

Racket #1 - 343g, 32.3 bal, 329 SW, 13.4 TW, 158 RW, 21 MGR/I

Racket #2 - 343g, 32.3 bal, 329 SW, 13.9 TW, 158 RW, 21 MGR/I

Racket #3 - 343g, 32.1 bal, 329 SW, 13.6 TW, 161 RW, 20.9 MGR/I

I've been testing racket #1 and 2 for the difference in TW.
How is the feel? Comparable to another racket? Power?
 
Is it possible to tune the racket and change its stiffness? Stick lead tape in some place to give the feeling of stiffness of the racket
 
Yes, @wianek, adding weight to a racquet, especially weight above the handle, effectively decreases its RA. Stringing too adds flex, dropping RA by ~2 points. (Note that a racquet's posted RA is usually measured strung.) So, in terms of the current discussion, adding twist weight with tape indeed drops RA and makes for a flexier feeling frame.
 
Jumping back into this thread after a considerable absence as I've been a very crazy setup to huge success, and I just wanted you to know, Brando.

320g
34.2cm
337SW
150RW
20.46mgri

Pretty massive departure from my usual 343g | 31.6cm | 331 SW | 171 RW | 20.7 MGR/i.

I think the interesting semantic discussion is about "easy." The 320g racquet is quite easy to swing fast. Low static, tiny RW, pretty whippy mgr/i. However, it is NOT easy to swing accurately. I need way more time on returns and it's tremendously challenging to time shots if I'm rushed. As soon as I have a second to breathe, it's game over from my opponent though.

My feelings about high vs low mgri are that higher mgr/i are a lot easier to time which makes them feel easy to use. You could say, it's easy to swing and find success. Low mgri would be easier to accelerate, but harder to find success with.
How long have I been trying to turn you to the Light Side, @dr. godmode? I feel a shift in The Force. There’s yet hope for a rebel alliance!

I tried to seduce you into the 330s and here you go slutting around with 320g. Don’t you feel dirty? But seriously, I’m glad to hear you’re enjoying a territory wide open with possibilities because there’s so much more room to play than in the 340s.

My prediction is in line with @maksp‘ s. I think you’ll end up striking gold somewhere between 325-335 grams. We’re the same height and I found a sweetspot at 326g, 32.4cm, 334sw, 170rw, 20.20, 0.523 Pi. Before that, I played the same racquets (360 Radical MPs) at 337sw, too (and 175rw), where I found not only your accuracy issues but also a terminally sluggish net game and an increased error ratio on serve.
 
Jumping back into this thread after a considerable absence as I've been a very crazy setup to huge success, and I just wanted you to know, Brando.

320g
34.2cm
337SW
150RW
20.46mgri

Pretty massive departure from my usual 343g | 31.6cm | 331 SW | 171 RW | 20.7 MGR/i.

I think the interesting semantic discussion is about "easy." The 320g racquet is quite easy to swing fast. Low static, tiny RW, pretty whippy mgr/i. However, it is NOT easy to swing accurately. I need way more time on returns and it's tremendously challenging to time shots if I'm rushed. As soon as I have a second to breathe, it's game over from my opponent though.

My feelings about high vs low mgri are that higher mgr/i are a lot easier to time which makes them feel easy to use. You could say, it's easy to swing and find success. Low mgri would be easier to accelerate, but harder to find success with.
What was the reason behind the switch?
 
I have 2 setups in mind:

357g, 32.6cm, 355sw, 16tw, 20.7mgri, 173rw
351g, 32.3cm, 344sw, 15tw, 20.7mgri, 170rw

Currently i play with the first setup, my style is to hit on the rise and attack forward when the opportunity arises. Would the second setup help with consistency on both the first and second serve, while maintaining enough control from the baseline while playing low margin shots?
 
What was the reason behind the switch?
Most of it is because I'm just having so much fun with the PA Rafa. My fh is pretty insane, I have noticeable buffs on spin potential, general heaviness and even precision without losing much on that side. The losses come on my BH and returns, but I'm figuring those shots out.

I've been talking a lot to the MP Tennis Youtuber about choosing frames for match wins more and moving away from the macho-ness of racquetaholism where many players like to flex how they use unforgiving frames. I think I've been guilty of this for a while and if I can find repeatable results with a powerful 100 then I'm going to take it.

This has been the best power frame for my game by some margin. I often lose racquet head speed when I spec up the 100s (CX400T, Extreme MP) but this is the first time I've gotten away with high SW + a thick beam without losing RHS, but in this case, I've actually GAINED RHS even though the SW is higher.

I'm pretty confident that I will figure out my BH cross court and returns because those shots have always been the most natural to me and I can feel improvements every hit. It's now been about 2 weeks and the honeymooning is intensifying not fading.
 
Most of it is because I'm just having so much fun with the PA Rafa. My fh is pretty insane, I have noticeable buffs on spin potential, general heaviness and even precision without losing much on that side. The losses come on my BH and returns, but I'm figuring those shots out.

I've been talking a lot to the MP Tennis Youtuber about choosing frames for match wins more and moving away from the macho-ness of racquetaholism where many players like to flex how they use unforgiving frames. I think I've been guilty of this for a while and if I can find repeatable results with a powerful 100 then I'm going to take it.

This has been the best power frame for my game by some margin. I often lose racquet head speed when I spec up the 100s (CX400T, Extreme MP) but this is the first time I've gotten away with high SW + a thick beam without losing RHS, but in this case, I've actually GAINED RHS even though the SW is higher.

I'm pretty confident that I will figure out my BH cross court and returns because those shots have always been the most natural to me and I can feel improvements every hit. It's now been about 2 weeks and the honeymooning is intensifying not fading.
Do you notice a big drop in recoilweight?
 
Do you notice a big drop in recoilweight?
Mostly on returns. The old stick can redirect pace with a much more compact swing. When it comes to the purpose of this thread and RW's relationship to one's swing, then not really. I've noticed this before, where higher RW's pull the racquet away from the body, extending the arm during the swing, but the new setup pulls the arm harder than anything I've tried. I think this might be due to the head heavy nature of the frame.
 
Is it possible to tune the racket and change its stiffness? Stick lead tape in some place to give the feeling of stiffness of the racket

Yes, @wianek, adding weight to a racquet, especially weight above the handle, effectively decreases its RA. Stringing too adds flex, dropping RA by ~2 points. (Note that a racquet's posted RA is usually measured strung.) So, in terms of the current discussion, adding twist weight with tape indeed drops RA and makes for a flexier feeling frame.
I think the effect that strings have on RA is due to the fact that they pull on the hoop rather than the weight they add. AFAIK, although adding weight can dampen vibrations, which could make a frame feel "softer", there would not be a measurable difference in RA just by adding lead tape.
 
Thanks for challenging my thinking on this, @tele. It prompted me to find this 2007 post from @travlerajm, who's done more research on it than I:
Another way to look at dynamic stiffness is that it is a measure of how much a racquet actually flexes at impact. It is a measurable, but not practical to measure.

Bottle Rocket is oversimplifying the effect of lead tape on stiffness. Lead tape can significantly effect dynamic stiffness, but the increase in momentum due to the added lead tape is only part of the equation.

I have done a lot of experimentation on this topic, and I have also read most of the available literature on the subject.

In my experience, an easy and noticeable way to affect the dynamic stiffness of the racquet is to add lead tape to the handle! If you add lead tape to the top of the handle or near the throat, the frame will feel stiffer upon impact. In contrast, if you add weight to the butt, the frame will feel more flexible upon impact.

As shown and explained by Rod Cross in "Customizing a tennis racket by adding weights", Sports Engineering (2001) 4, 1-14, the positions of the vibration nodes are affected by the addition of lead tape.

A racket has two primary vibration nodes, one at mid-handle, and one at mid-hoop. If the distance between these nodes is increased, it makes the frame feel more flexible. When you add lead tape the butt, it shifts the node in the handle closer to the added weight, thus lengthening the distance between the nodes. So the frame feels more flexible. This increase in dynamic flex accounts for noticeable reduction in power when weight is added to the butt of the racquet of a typical stock frame (effective mass increases, but the inherent power level of the frame goes down!).

As MLC pointed out, weight in the butt also decreases the 1st moment about the wrist axis (which I like to refer to as the hitting weight). Reducing the hitting weight means that the distance between the frame's center of mass and the impact point is increased, compounding the reduction in dynamic stiffness. This is a secondary effect though, for weight added to the hande.

Adding weight to the top of the handle or throat has the opposite effect of adding weight to the butt.

Adding weight to the lower hoop shifts the node at mid-hoop downward, causing a stiffening effect. The effect is especially noticeable since the secondary stiffening effect of increase in hitting weight (which BL was explaining) becomes significant when mass is added to the hoop.

The increase in dynamic stiffness when adding weight to the mid or upper hoop is mostly due to the increase in hitting weight. Weight at the tip shifts the hoop node upward, increasing the distance between vibration nodes, somewhat tempering the increase in dynamic stiffness.
 
Thanks for challenging my thinking on this, @tele. It prompted me to find this 2007 post from @travlerajm, who's done more research on it than I:
Interesting find, especially the rod cross paper. However, RA is not measured on a vibrating racquet, so afaik weight would not affect RA even if all the conclusions in the post are correct, which I do not know.
Moreover, if what is being said in this post is correct, adding weight at 3 and 9 (ie mid−hoop) to increase twist weight would not seem to have a pronounced effect on the mid-hoop vibration node location, though it would increase hitting weight, which, according to that post, would seem to increase "dynamic stiffness"
 
Thanks for challenging my thinking on this, @tele. It prompted me to find this 2007 post from @travlerajm, who's done more research on it than I:
I SAY,... ol' chaps Brando and travlerajm,.. "Good show!! Jolly good show!!," (as they said in the famous movie
"Bridge on the River Kwai.") If I may, I speak for the multitudes who read Talk Tennis, 〰️ "More! We Want More!!"
As one pea in the tennis community of the "pea pod of thousands," I urge you both to keep your ink quills moving!!
Your intelligent writing is expanding our minds. As we speak, my brain now is enlarging from 3 ounces to 4 ounces❗

Yes, I fondly recall the message handed down from my prehistoric ancestor "Nate-the-Neanderthal." He proclaimed,
"Folks of the South Hamlet, come forth on two prime feet, out of your caves, and discover what is known as tennis!!"
How times change! You could have seen a painting of Nate in the Wimbledon museum, as one of the first tennis men,
but unfortunately his painting was ripped off the wall, buy a gang of soccer thugs who thought a ball had to be kicked!!
------ So Be It ⚜ ------
 
Advanced players care about recoil, and here’s why. Swingweight, twist weight, and recoil weight (also called ‘hitting weight’) all measure the inertia of a racquet along different axes or planes. Recoil weight shares the same plane as swingweight but its axis is the balance point (vs. the hand), and that makes it a piece of the racquet puzzle you never knew you were missing. RW measures how close a frame’s weighting is to its poles. The higher the recoil, the more polarized it is.

Polarity matters because it very much affects a racquet’s behavior. For instance, weighting at the tip adds polarity, placing mass as close to the sweetspot as it can be, resulting in maximal increase (per gram added) in power and plow through at ball contact. The wider this weight is spread over the tip, the more twist weight it adds, meaning more stability on off center hits. Add counterweight on the handle or, most efficiently, under the butt, and you add inertial stability, enabling you to swing-through with less effort.

To any player this all sounds pretty good. So why isn’t every racquet polarized? Two reasons.

First, while polarization may make a frame swing more efficiently (as in power from effort), it also makes it harder to swing accurately. The very definition of “unwieldy,” truly polarized racquets require consistent, advanced form to bring them through because it takes more energy to get their generally weightier hoops moving. So you have to swing early, much earlier than with a depolarized frame; which is weighted more evenly, making the hoop come through faster.* Since amateurs prefer ease in their swing over efficiency, especially if it costs consistency, makers tend to make less polarized racquets.

The second reason for depolarized frames is that the length of a player’s arm can determine their preferred RW. Longer armed players tend to prefer the pulling-a-hoop feel of high RW. Shorter armed players prefer the pushing-a-handle feel of low RW. Why? The arm swings a racquet as the upper lever in a double-pendulum with its pivot points being the shoulder and wrist.

The longer your arm, the faster it’ll bring the racquet (the lower lever) through, enabling it to pivot forward to meet the ball too soon and at too sharp an angle. So taller players prefer frames with more hoop-lag so as to meet the ball in front with a stable (open) wrist. Weight closer to the tip and/or tail (polarizing weight) slows down the hoop so as to increase that lag for longer arms. Shorter arms bring the racquet through slower, causing the hoop to more naturally lag the handle. These players then prefer lower recoil weights for less lag. This means using a racquet that’s more evenly weighted throughout, a depolarized frame.

Are there exceptions to these “rules?” Sure, and they abound among the pros, with their higher weights and swingweights. Amateurs, though, can use these principles to get an idea of where to start hunting their best recoil weight. It’s no coincidence that the height of the average player (male and female) is 5' 7" [170cm] and the average RW of the top-20 selling frames of 2022 is a middle of the road 158 (with a standard deviation of 7).

The ideal recoil weight for a polarized frame is 170 or more while ideally depolarized frames measure 150 or less. To calculate a racquet’s RW, you only need to know its weight, balance point and swingweight (SW):
SW - (wt. in kg × (balance [in cm] - 10)²) = Recoil Weight

You don't need calculate RW yourself. Instead, simply feed its Big-3 specs (wt., balance, SW) into TennCom’s handy tool. Easy-peasy.

ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL (and exceptions assumed)

Polarized racquets (165 - 180 RW+) are recoil-stable (more forgiving of horizontally off-center hits), require more precise timing (due to lag), and produce more power. They can also produce more spin and sharper hitting angles. Heavier racquets tend to be more polarized, with more mass distributed where it's needed at the impact point and under the hand as counterbalance.

Depolarized racquets (155 - 140 RW-) tend to be lighter and more torsion-stable (higher twist weighted), hitting a flatter ball and allowing more precise tuning of depth. While easier to swing, they translate more impact shock to the arm since lacking the mass to absorb vibration. Polarized frames, having more mass near the impact point and/or under the hand, absorb more vibration. (Tecnifibre fills its mostly depolarized frames with foam to soften this shock.)

Customizer Note: increasing the SW to weight ratio increases RW, as does lowering balance via tail weighting because both increase polarization.

* Polarization’s hoop-lag effect can be understood from the analogy of swinging a plain iron rod of equal weight and length with a rod ‘barbelled’ at each end. The barbelled rod will be harder to get moving, and so will lag your swing but release more energy on whatever it hits.

EDIT: READERS HAVE ASKED ME TO POST MY RW TABLE (introduced in post #25 and rounded out in post #298) HERE FOR EASIER REFERENCE:

Apt Racquet Recoil Weight (±2 points) per Player Height (as indicator of arm length)
4’10”
140 RW
4’11”
142 RW
5’ 0”
144 RW
5’ 1”
146 RW
5’ 2”
148 RW
5’ 3”
150 RW
5’ 4”
152 RW
5’ 5”
154 RW
5’ 6”
156 RW
5’ 7”
158 RW
5’ 8”
160 RW
5’ 9”
162 RW
5’10”
164 RW
5’11”
166 RW
6’ 0”
168 RW
6’ 1”
170 RW
6’ 2”
172 RW
6’ 3”
174 RW
6’ 4”
176 RW
6’ 5”
178 RW
6’ 6”
180 RW
6’ 7”
182 RW
Recoil: S/W - (mass in kg x (balance-point [in cm] - 10)²)



Way too much analyzing. Yet, of course, the better a player plays, the pickier the player is about the racket used and all elements of the string used. So you can count me as awfully picky. I use the latest Head Radical, a light-weight racket, that Taylor Fritz uses.

Before purchasing five of the rackets, I held the club-demo Radical racket. It felt good. I took a few shadow swings. It felt good. Then I told the stringer to cut out the strings, and I gave him my preferred 18-gauge Technifibre Bi-Phase strings and told the stringer to string the racket at 55 lbs. After the stringing, I tried out the racket playing one of the club instructors. The racket hitting felt perfect for me. The feel of the ball hitting the racket responded the way I intended, both speed and accuracy, on serves, baseline shots, and volleys.

I rarely miss-hit off the sweet spot or stiffen my swing. I miss the days of my opponent with a wooden racket miss-hitting a ball instantly dying without ever climbing over the net, a deserved outcome.

On my end, I need preciseness. My flat forehand and my flat, covering-the-ball one-handed backhand, both with a smooth accelerating finish by a loose grip, provide practically little, or insignificant, topspin. My standard net clearance ranges between six inches and two feet, yet I maintain quality depth while holding to a consistent reminder of making sure the ball clears the net. The reminder applies to practically every rally shot of mine including volleys. (In speedier rallies, I rely on instant instinct to clear the ball over the net).

To be certain, I most always attack without holding back on the swings and volleys, including swinging and half volleys. The delicate drop shot is also an attacking shot but that's another matter of explanation. The same goes for a lob on most occasions, though in my case I rarely resort to lobs or drop shots. Still I intensely practice them to use if a rare moment arises in a match.

Sometimes, however, if an opponent is forced beyond the baseline, I'll respond with a slower driving, low-bouncing shot causing the opponent to chase forward and lunge for the low-bouncing shallow ball, usually, but not always,
off an inside-out forehand near or inside the center baseline, an easy high-percentage shot.

Nevertheless, the Radical racket's biggest test with my preferred strings was on how it would handle my wicked-swinging slice backhand clearing the net by a foot or two and skidding low and deep, requiring even more precision. The Radical passed the test, and I had three of the five rackets strung and have rotated the five rackets in the stringing. All have an exact 4 1/2-inch grip perfectly fitting my somewhat long fingers.

I remain pleased with the Radical in the speed, delicacy, and the accuracy supplied. The racket fits my abilities and tendencies or my nature.

But no racket or strings would provide me any significant improvement without my applying the tennis fundamentals of positioning, composure, intense concentration, and swing motion (to name a few).
 
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Way too much analyzing. Yet, of course, the better a player plays, the pickier the player is about the racket used and all elements of the string used. So you can count me as awfully picky. I use the latest Head Radical, a light-weight racket, that Taylor Fritz uses.

Before purchasing five of the rackets, I held the club-demo Radical racket. It felt good. I took a few shadow swings. It felt good. Then I told the stringer to cut out the strings, and I gave him my preferred 18-gauge Technifibre Bi-Phase strings and told the stringer to string the racket at 55 lbs. After the stringing, I tried out the racket playing one of the club instructors. The racket hitting felt perfect for me. The feel of the ball hitting the racket responded the way I intended, both speed and accuracy, on serves, baseline shots, and volleys.

I rarely miss-hit off the sweet spot or stiffen my swing. I miss the days of my opponent with a wooden racket miss-hitting a ball instantly dying without ever climbing over the net, a deserved outcome.

On my end, I need preciseness. My flat forehand and my flat, covering-the-ball one-handed backhand, both with a smooth accelerating finish by a loose grip, provide practically little, or insignificant, topspin. My standard net clearance ranges between six inches and two feet, yet I maintain quality depth while holding to a consistent reminder of making sure the ball clears the net. The reminder applies to practically every rally shot of mine including volleys. (In speedier rallies, I rely on instant instinct to clear the ball over the net).

To be certain, I most always attack without holding back on the swings and volleys, including swinging and half volleys. The delicate drop shot is also an attacking shot but that's another matter of explanation. The same goes for a lob on most occasions, though in my case I rarely resort to lobs or drop shots. Still I intensely practice them to use if a rare moment arises in a match.

Sometimes, however, if an opponent is forced beyond the baseline, I'll respond with a slower driving, low-bouncing shot causing the opponent to chase forward and lunge for the low-bouncing shallow ball, usually, but not always,
off an inside-out forehand near or inside the center baseline, an easy high-percentage shot.

Nevertheless, the Radical racket's biggest test with my preferred strings was on how it would handle my wicked-swinging slice backhand clearing the net by no more than a foot and skidding low and deep, requiring even more precision. The Radical passed the test, and I had three of the five rackets strung and have rotated the five rackets in the stringing. All have an exact 4 1/2-inch grip perfectly fitting my somewhat long fingers.

I remain pleased with the Radical in the speed and the accuracy supplied. The racket fits my abilities and tendencies or nature.

But no racket or strings would provide me any significant improvement without my applying the tennis fundamentals of positioning, composure, intense concentration, and swing motion (to name a few).
Legendary post.
"the better a player plays, the pickier the player is about the racket used and all elements of the string used" I am not completely sure about this, but will start a new thread sometime soon.
 
Legendary post.
"the better a player plays, the pickier the player is about the racket used and all elements of the string used" I am not completely sure about this, but will start a new thread sometime soon.
I'm guessing my level of play exceeds your level, probably by a considerable amount. And that means that I have close associations with high-level players and tour players, several of them highly ranked players of the past.

Still, today, I'm really old, 74, and USTA Training Camp coaches in Florida currently rate me a 5.5. But in my view of my present play, that rating is a half level too high. I certainly don't possess the court coverage, the springy strong legs, or the power (especially on serve) that I had in the past. Painless shoulder arthritis has reduced my service swing speed. Yet my consistency remains as long as I get to and position myself in the chasing after a wide-angle shot.

But now I don't always get to the shot as fast as I did in the past. Recently in a match, my opponent hit a weak shot dropping down at the right corner of the service square, From the left baseline corner, I raced to the ball and with me racket back, I yelled out, "I got it!" signaling that I was about to hit a narrow crosscourt winner. The ball hit the strings of my extended racket, the very top of the strings, and the ball fell dead on my side of the court. I thought I made the distance on time as I had before.

I think the coaches rating me were swayed by, I wasn't dainty 55 years ago and remain daintyless and highly intense on the tennis court, especially against much younger talented male players. I've always worn and still wear custom-fit Rune-tight tennis shorts with pockets. I'm not that far from Rune's 6-2 height, three inches shorter. (If you, the males here, had muscled legs like Rune, you would want to show them off. I have nicely proportioned, slender-tone legs, and the Rune shorts show them off, and the pockets are convenient.)

In the past, I've overheard several tennis fans and players wondering if I'm a Lez. I've been married to one man for 51 years and raised three boys. In the marriage, I never transgressed. And, furthermore, a sexual Lez attraction doesn't exist in me. No matter. The 1960s wondering didn't at all bother me. I get along just fine with Lezes, several of them my best friends.

Nonetheless, I'll return to the topic at hand here. I have no idea what racket polarization is or how it applies. I have no idea what racket recoil is, either. I'll repeat. I put a racket in my hand. If it feels good, I'll take a few shadow swings. If it feels good, I'll give it a court workout with strings and tension of my choice. If then the racket delivers the way I intend, it's a keeper.

In my young days, I played with a Wilson Kramer Autograph wooden racket for many years. It was customized to my liking by the manufacturer, substantially head heavier than the Kramers in retail outlets in order to compliment my strength then and my usual popping serve and volley. However, in the time, I gave a Spalding racket a tryout with gut strings at 61-lb. tension. It performed pretty well, until an overhead practice shot I solidly hit off a back-peddling positioning.

On contact I could feel the throat of the Spalding bend back. Then the racket snapped in two.

The overhead might have been the hardest I ever hit. But I couldn't afford a racket to snap in two during match play. I couldn't afford to worry about whether the Spalding racket would remain whole during a match rally.

What if I cracked a shot or a serve to a blue darter, then the racket snapped in two and the opponent somehow returned the shot. What am I supposed to do with only a headless racket handle in my hand?
 
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This is a forum section about racquets and a topic about recoil weight, so I think he was on topic.
I can never criticize or question someone else veering off topic. I'm the queen of rambling sidewise, and I know tennis and me very deeply.

I start a comment on a tennis topic at hand. Then I instantly ramble to me and tennis. Then I twirl back to the topic at hand. Then I often switch back to me and tennis at the end of the comment.

Some find my rambling confusing. Some find my rambling boring and say, "Just say what you mean to say on the topic and then shut up."

I reply, "Random thoughts come into my head faster than my 110-word-per-minute keyboard writing, which should be good news to most readers. If my typing fingers could keep up with my thoughts, there would be more rambling off."
 
I'm guessing my level of play exceeds your level, probably by a considerable amount. And that means that I have close associations with high-level players and tour players, several of them highly ranked players of the past.

Still, today, I'm really old, 74, and USTA Training Camp coaches in Florida currently rate me a 5.5. But in my view of my present play, that rating is a half level too high. I certainly don't possess the court coverage, the springy strong legs, or the power (especially on serve) that I had in the past. Painless shoulder arthritis has reduced my service swing speed. Yet my consistency remains as long as I get to and position myself in the chasing after a wide-angle shot.

But now I don't always get to the shot as fast as I did in the past. Recently in a match, my opponent hit a weak shot dropping down at the right corner of the service square, From the left baseline corner, I raced to the ball and with me racket back, I yelled out, "I got it!" signaling that I was about to hit a narrow crosscourt winner. The ball hit the strings of my extended racket, the very top of the strings, and the ball fell dead on my side of the court. I thought I made the distance on time as I had before.

I think the coaches rating me were swayed by, I wasn't dainty 55 years ago and remain daintyless and highly intense on the tennis court, especially against much younger talented male players. I've always worn and still wear custom-fit Rune-tight tennis shorts with pockets. I'm not that far from Rune's 6-2 height, three inches shorter. (If you, the males here, had muscled legs like Rune, you would want to show them off. I have nicely proportioned, slender-tone legs, and the Rune shorts show them off, and the pockets are convenient.)

In the past, I've overheard several tennis fans and players wondering if I'm a Lez. I've been married to one man for 51 years and raised three boys. In the marriage, I never transgressed. And, furthermore, a sexual Lez attraction doesn't exist in me. No matter. The 1960s wondering didn't at all bother me. I get along just fine with Lezes, several of them my best friends.

Nonetheless, I'll return to the topic at hand here. I have no idea what racket polarization is or how it applies. I have no idea what racket recoil is, either. I'll repeat. I put a racket in my hand. If it feels good, I'll take a few shadow swings. If it feels good, I'll give it a court workout with strings and tension of my choice. If then the racket delivers the way I intend, it's a keeper.

In my young days, I played with a Wison Kramer Autograph wooden racket for many years. It was customized to my liking by the manufacturer, substantially head heavier than the Kramers in retail outlets in order to compliment my strength then and my usual stout serve and volley. However, in the time, I gave a Spalding racket a tryout with gut strings at 61 lb. tension. It performed pretty well, until an overhead practice shot I solidly hit off back-peddling positioning. On contact I could feel the throat of the Spalding bend back. Then the racket snapped in two.

The overhead might have been the hardest I ever hit. But I couldn't afford a racket to snap in two during match play. I couldn't afford to worry about whether the Spalding racket would remain whole during a match rally.

What if I cracked a shot or a serve to a blue darter, then the racket snapped in two and the opponent somehow returned the shot. What am I supposed to do with only a headless racket handle in my hand?
Thank you for being so candid and interesting! Yes, if your associations are playing on the tour or being a hitting partner with tour players and that is your way of being humble while communicating that, certainly you are playing a considerably higher level than myself.

I'll geHt around to it someday , maybe, but the gist of it is I think higher level players are less concerned with the minutia of rackets, like you said kind of , just grab a racket, feels good, play with it. They are particular about what they like (usually the racket that got them through juniors to the tour), but can play well with anything if they just played a fun match.

Mortal rec players/adult learners (not 5.5 level like you) are more likely to think a racket will win them matches over another one, or maybe it can because their opponents and their own game is so tedious.

if I make a topic I'll blab more about the particulars.
 
Thank you for being so candid and interesting! Yes, if your associations are playing on the tour or being a hitting partner with tour players and that is your way of being humble while communicating that, certainly you are playing a considerably higher level than myself.

I'll geHt around to it someday , maybe, but the gist of it is I think higher level players are less concerned with the minutia of rackets, like you said kind of , just grab a racket, feels good, play with it. They are particular about what they like (usually the racket that got them through juniors to the tour), but can play well with anything if they just played a fun match.

Mortal rec players/adult learners (not 5.5 level like you) are more likely to think a racket will win them matches over another one, or maybe it can because their opponents and their own game is so tedious.

if I make a topic I'll blab more about the particulars.
Isn't this the constant theme that you write about? Nearly every post you have in the racquet forum is some kind of semi-sideways shading of rec players who are into customizing/optimizing racquets. There's no doubt that it's a fools pursuit if you think it will make you a better player, but I struggle to see the harm in it, since most of us who tinker like to tinker. Also, for many of us, it makes the game more fun AND makes us want to go hit more. That is definitely the case for me, anyways.

I actually think interest in racquets has nothing to do with level. I think there are some people that like to tinker, and some that don't, no matter how good they are. I tinker with everything. Most of the rec players I know and play don't have any thought to obsess over racquets - they pick one and play. And, that's totally fine. But why should we laugh at/shade anyone for getting into the science of racquets and trying to figure it out? That seems pretty strange, especially on a racquet forum! I mean, I have no problem with you using your preferred sticks, customized or uncustomized, light or heavy. It'd be cool if you didn't have a problem with me using mine and doing whatever I please with them...
 
Isn't this the constant theme that you write about? Nearly every post you have in the racquet forum is some kind of semi-sideways shading of rec players who are into customizing/optimizing racquets. There's no doubt that it's a fools pursuit if you think it will make you a better player, but I struggle to see the harm in it, since most of us who tinker like to tinker. Also, for many of us, it makes the game more fun AND makes us want to go hit more. That is definitely the case for me, anyways.

I actually think interest in racquets has nothing to do with level. I think there are some people that like to tinker, and some that don't, no matter how good they are. I tinker with everything. Most of the rec players I know and play don't have any thought to obsess over racquets - they pick one and play. And, that's totally fine. But why should we laugh at/shade anyone for getting into the science of racquets and trying to figure it out? That seems pretty strange, especially on a racquet forum! I mean, I have no problem with you using your preferred sticks, customized or uncustomized, light or heavy. It'd be cool if you didn't have a problem with me using mine and doing whatever I please with them...
Well, I am not a boogey man or selling anything , relax, move along .

I wouldn't go so far as to call someone a fool, but yes, a majority for sure do think that it will win a match, even during a match a different racket will somehow turn the tide, you can see this written much more often , maybe 100 times to 1 compared to your more realistic approach of tinker for fun.

Why is there harm in my posts, but no harm in other posts ? Well, I can see you feel personally attacked in some way based on "it'd be cool if you didn't have a problem with me using mine....". Dude, I don't even know what you use and you are going off on me.

You have an interest in tinkering, but read the posts, most racket posts on here are very focused on winning matches. So, I'm joining in on the conversations.
 
Well, I am not a boogey man or selling anything , relax, move along .

I wouldn't go so far as to call someone a fool, but yes, a majority for sure do think that it will win a match, even during a match a different racket will somehow turn the tide, you can see this written much more often , maybe 100 times to 1 compared to your more realistic approach of tinker for fun.

Why is there harm in my posts, but no harm in other posts ? Well, I can see you feel personally attacked in some way based on "it'd be cool if you didn't have a problem with me using mine....". Dude, I don't even know what you use and you are going off on me.

You have an interest in tinkering, but read the posts, most racket posts on here are very focused on winning matches. So, I'm joining in on the conversations.
Sure man - you got it. But don't pretend one of your main motivations here isn't to make fun of people. That's your prerogative, for sure, but it does cast a kind of sleezy tinge on most of your posts. That's cool though - it's just you being you. Carry on.
 
Sure man - you got it. But don't pretend one of your main motivations here isn't to make fun of people. That's your prerogative, for sure, but it does cast a kind of sleezy tinge on most of your posts. That's cool though - it's just you being you. Carry on.
If you've ever seen him play you won't take his thoughts too seriously.
 
(Honestly, this may be about Recoil Weight!!)
Yes indeed, the once fridged deep snow has melted. I crawl slowly and carefully out of my High Alpine secluded hut,
which has been my permanent home since 1970. That was the year when I tragically lost a huge grudge match of
international importance against the ferocious Glenda (post # 840 above). You might have missed it, because I lost 6-0, 6-0.

I have decided to crawl out of my hut, and briefly ramble down the trail to civilization, for two truly burning reasons 〰️
(1) My supply of nourishing Fruit Loops has been decimated by the frequent bear attacks, and most importantly,
(2) After searching through my soul, I've decided to tell the world that ... I AM GLENDA'S "GHOST WRITER"❗

Folks, what is written in post # 840 is true, but as a ghost writer, I did make major changes, which I need to explain
before the next bear attack. After all, my Fruit Loops are making them tremendously powerful!! My future is uncertain.
I have decided to share with you some of the original notes. If you number EACH paragraph of post # 840, the original was
slightly different, and here are some short excerpts.〰️〰️

(2) = The friendly folks at Flodida's maximum prison said that I must be 5.5. ... Painless left shoulder amputation has
reduced my right handed service swing speed. (Yet my consistently is great!!)
(3) = From the left baseline corner, I raced five feet in front of me, but whiffed the darn ball, and I yelled "Give me a break!"
(4) = I'm not that far from Rune's 6-2 height, probably only fifteen inches shorter, which is to my advantage.
Hey, if you had beautiful old age spots like me, I'm sure you would want to show them off!!
(6) = Nonetheless, I have no idea what tennis is, but...I do exactly know my ... "RECOIL WEIGHT"❗
Recoil weight is that untidy weight after an all-you-can-eat pizza party, where I scream, and recoil in horror.
(8) = On contact with a winning overhead shot, I could feel my bra strap stretch, and then it snaped in two!! Darn!!

Well hamlet folks, since my report is finished, I'm heading back up yonder to my secret hut.
If you want to reply, the best way is to send a written note by way of my trusty mule Molisa.
------ So Be It ⚜ ------
 
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