Who did better in his first six matches against Rafa at RG?

[mehdimike]

Both Roger and Novak lost their first six matches against Rafa at RG. But who performed better?
Both won 4 sets.
Both won 0 matches.
The only difference is Djokovic won 4 sets in 3 matches and had a 5 setter in 2013 Vs Rafa. On the other hand, 3 times he lost in straight sets.
Both Roger and Novak faced Rafa at 2006-2007-2008 Rgs.
Roger Vs 2005-2011-2019 Rafa
Novak Vs 2012-2013-2014 Rafa

Who did better?
Who had it tougher?

 

[StrongRule]

Equal I'd say. 2013 was the closest match, but it happened more because of Djokovic's huge mental advantage over Nadal (which Federer never had on clay) than because of him actually being so good on clay. Nadal could have won much easier, but he was too afraid.

 

[PerilousPear]

Djokovic did better (and he won 5 sets, not 4.)
Fed had it tougher.

 

[StrongRule]

Djokovic did better (and he won 5 sets, not 4.)
Fed had it tougher.

As good as it is to have a setpoint against 2008 Nadal, it's still not called winning the set. He won 4.

 

[pj80]

well, I guess neither did it better

 

[Lleytonstation]

Djokovic did better (and he won 5 sets, not 4.)
Fed had it tougher.

True, but this thread to me is kind of pointless. Djoker beat Rafa more times and at RG, so first 6 or not, Djoker did better.

 

[PerilousPear]

As good as it is to have a setpoint against 2008 Nadal, it's still not called winning the set. He won 4.

Yeah, I got confused for a moment there.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Both won 4 sets in 6 matches? Lol what a king

 

[BauerAlmeida]

It's better to win in 5 and lose in 3 than to lose in 4 twice, at least you were really close in one match, so Djokovic.

Also, 2006 was a really young Novak. Federer got to face him during his peak years mostly. Djokovic would have won against him in 2011 very likely, can't say the same for Federer in a particular year.

 

[Deleted member 771911]

Federer because he faced Nadal at his peak.

 

[GameSetDjokovic]

Djokovic beat Nadal at RG, Roger did not. End of story.

Oh yeah, Djokovic also won a RG, Roger did not. <overlooked victory over Soderling, my mistake>

 

[Third Serve]

Djokovic beat Nadal at RG, Roger did not. End of story.

Oh yeah, Djokovic also won a RG, Roger did not.

Is that a fact?

 

[StrongRule]

True, but this thread to me is kind of pointless. Djoker beat Rafa more times and at RG, so first 6 or not, Djoker did better.

Federer never had the luck to face anything close to 2015 Nadal. Using this argument against him is a joke, and you know it.

 

[GameSetDjokovic]

Is that a fact?

My apologies, i completely overlooked the fact he won too over Soderling.

But the fact he never beat Nadal at RG stands.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Federer never had the luck to face anything close to 2015 Nadal. Using this argument against him is a joke, and you know it.

I just think its a mute point as neither were successful where it mattered. Finals against Rafa.

 

[Lleytonstation]

My apologies, i completely overlooked the fact he won too over Soderling.

....

 

[Deleted member 758560]

My apologies, i completely overlooked the fact he won too over Soderling.

But the fact he never beat Nadal at RG stands.

sober link

 

[mike danny]

My apologies, i completely overlooked the fact he won too over Soderling.

But the fact he never beat Nadal at RG stands.

Neither has Djokovic. 2015 Nadal doesn't count.

 

[MeatTornado]

If ever there was a time to have an "equal" option

 

[rUDin 21]

I don't get how only Fed competed against peak Rafa when Djokovic played with him the same years 06-08.Also, to tell that 12-13 Rafa wasn't peak on clay is beyond stupid.
He won everything except blue clay Madrid and when Novak played invincible 2011 mode in MC 2013.

 

[Sport]

I don't get how only Fed competed against peak Rafa when Djokovic played with him the same years 06-08.Also, to tell that 12-13 Rafa wasn't peak on clay is beyond stupid.
He won everything except blue clay Madrid and when Novak played invincible 2011 mode in MC 2013.

Nadal has several peak periods, where he improves in some aspects and gets worse in others. Nadal expanded his peak on clay in 2017-2021. He won 4 RG in a row, losing only 3 sets in the process. Brutal domination. Less speed than in, say, 2007-2013, but way better shot-making, net skills, experience, etc.

 

[GameSetDjokovic]

Neither has Djokovic. 2015 Nadal doesn't count.

Sure, just because you said so.

 

[mike danny]

Sure, just because you said so.

Nadal was at his worst that year, so it's not just because I think so. That's like saying beating Roger at 2013 Wimb is the same as beating him in 2005.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Doesn’t really matter. Both lost their first six matches and won the same number of sets. Who had a five setter or who won more games is pointless as neither could score a win and the difference between them is minuscule. End of the day Djokovic did better against Nadal overall both on clay in general and at RG. Helped by the fact that a) he overall played weaker versions of Nadal and b) he had a mental edge over Nadal for some time while Fed had a mental blockade.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Nadal was at his worst that year, so it's not just because I think so. That's like saying beating Roger at 2013 Wimb is the same as beating him in 2005.

Put 2006 or 2007 Federer against 2015 Nadal and the result is the same. Maybe he needs four sets but that’s it.

 

[GameSetDjokovic]

Nadal was at his worst that year, so it's not just because I think so. That's like saying beating Roger at 2013 Wimb is the same as beating him in 2005.

Irrelevant. Then he should not have entered the tournament.

 

[GameSetDjokovic]

Nadal - Federer H2H on clay 14-2

Nadal - Djokovic H2H on clay 18-7

Not Djokovic's fault Roger did not make it far enough to play Nadal more times.

 

[USO]

Federer did better and anyone who disagrees knows absolutely nothing about tennis.

 

[GameSetDjokovic]

Nothing to agree or disagree about, numbers and facts speak for themselves.

 

[InsideOut900]

Federer by far. People get banned for troll threads like this.

 

[NoleIsBoat]

Djokovic reached a 5th set vs a better Nadal in 2013 (than 2005-2007 and 2011) and actually defeated Nadal in 2015.

 

[rUDin 21]

Nadal has several peak periods, where he improves in some aspects and gets worse in others. Nadal expanded his peak on clay in 2017-2021. He won 4 RG in a row, losing only 3 sets in the process. Brutal domination. Less speed than in, say, 2007-2013, but way better shot-making, net skills, experience, etc.

Thoroughly agree.

 

[PETEhammer]

Neither has Djokovic. 2015 Nadal doesn't count.

bahahaha keep the salt flowing bud. Now we discount slam wins

 

[NoleIsBoat]

bahahaha keep the salt flowing bud. Now we discount slam wins

Any wins over 2015 Nadal or Federer since 2014 do not count.

Nor does 2011 USO SF since Fed had match points. Nor does 2012 RG SF, only 2011 Semi counts.

 

[PETEhammer]

Any wins over 2015 Nadal or Federer since 2014 do not count.

Nor does 2011 USO SF since Fed had match points. Nor does 2012 RG SF, only 2011 Semi counts.

Don't forget that W2012 counts as a prime to prime matchup while RG 2012 does not. You gotta sorta play hopscotch with time to get it right. An alternative way is simply to count every Fed win as a prime to prime matchup

 

[PETEhammer]

Djokovic reached a 5th set vs a better Nadal in 2013 (than 2005-2007 and 2011) and actually defeated Nadal in 2015.

This is honestly the most impressive RG feat achieved by anyone not named Nadal over the last 15 years tbh.

 

[GhostOfNKDM]

Is that a fact?

Curious how 'new' Djoko fan accounts seem to share the same personalities with existing ones

 

[NoleIsBoat]

Don't forget that W2012 counts as a prime to prime matchup while RG 2012 does not. You gotta sorta play hopscotch with time to get it right. An alternative way is simply to count every Fed win as a prime to prime matchup

2012 Federer wins - prime for prime fed owns Djokovic at Wimbledon

2014 Federer loses
2015 Federer loses after destroying Murray in the semi in a top 5 grass performance
2019 Federer loses after having MPs and defeating Nadal in SF

“Irrelevant! Means nothing! 04-07 fed in straights”

 

[NoleIsBoat]

This is honestly the most impressive RG feat achieved by anyone not named Nadal over the last 15 years tbh.

You sure it beats GOATing renowned clay courter Del Potro in 09 SF? You ok bud?

 

[PETEhammer]

You sure it beats GOATing renowned clay courter Del Potro in 09 SF? You ok bud?

Truth is my drug sir. I get high on Reality

 

[Biotic]

Nadal was at his worst that year, so it's not just because I think so. That's like saying beating Roger at 2013 Wimb is the same as beating him in 2005.

Federer never beat Djokovic at AO. 2007 doesn't count. Are we cool?

 

[UnforcedTerror]

Neither has Djokovic. 2015 Nadal doesn't count.

Of course it counts. The most satisfying RG match in the last 20 years.

 

[Hitman]

Djokovic.

 

[mike danny]

Federer never beat Djokovic at AO. 2007 doesn't count. Are we cool?

2007 Djokovic wasn't as poor as 2015 Nadal, come on now.

 

[mike danny]

Irrelevant. Then he should not have entered the tournament.

The win counts, but it shouldn't be used in a comparison with Roger, i.e. it shouldn't be what puts Djokovic ahead.

 

[mike danny]

Federer never beat Djokovic at AO. 2007 doesn't count. Are we cool?

Generally speaking, yeah, I don't hold that win in such high regard because Djokovic clearly wasn't ready yet. But he didn't suck for a whole year like Nadal in 2015, which is what separates them.

 

[Deleted member 780630]

Considering the matchup difficulty and the fact that he played a better version of Nadal, Federer did better.

 

[King No1e]

Is that a fact?

This is the new "Agassi never won a Major on clay" moment

 

[Third Serve]

This is the new "Agassi never won a Major on clay" moment

That was a clayqueen special, wasn’t it?

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Both Roger and Novak lost their first six matches against Rafa at RG. But who performed better?
Both won 4 sets.
Both won 0 matches.
The only difference is Djokovic won 4 sets in 3 matches and had a 5 setter in 2013 Vs Rafa. On the other hand, 3 times he lost in straight sets.
Both Roger and Novak faced Rafa at 2006-2007-2008 Rgs.
Roger Vs 2005-2011-2019 Rafa
Novak Vs 2012-2013-2014 Rafa

Who did better?
Who had it tougher?

In BO5 on clay, roger is certainly the tougher opponent than nole for nadal considering the versions they played.
Only roger has ever had match points against an unplayable, unstoppable, untiring nadal on clay in BO5.