Who do you consider have champion mentality but not the talent?

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Deleted member 307496

Guest
On a grander scale: Hewitt.

Obviously he had the talent to be a champion, but his mentality is several tiers above his talent.
His talent is much greater than the players you usually place above him; it's typical you would mention him.

His mentality also wasn't always all that great, his matches against Federer show this (even though he had nowhere to go in his matches and pretty much no chance against him, he always had that resigned look on his face when facing him).

I'm going to say Rafter.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Chang either.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
Roddick had as much heart as Ferrer he's also a cut above the other one time winners you mentioned with multiple slam finals, 5 masters titles and a YE #1...He's closer to Murray than to Wawrinka.
Safin, Hewitt and Roddick are all closer to Murray than Del Potro or Wawrinka.
 

President

Legend
Roddick was a champion, but he had the mentality of an even greater champion (his mental strength is as good as Djokovic's IMO). I agree with Isner and Berlocq as well.
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Roddick was a champion, but he had the mentality of an even greater champion IMO (his mental strength is as good as Djokovic's IMO). I agree with Isner and Berlocq as well.
Roddick vs Courier, who was better and who was more talented (not more accomplished)?
 

President

Legend
Roddick vs Courier, who was better and who was more talented (not more accomplished)?
I have only seen four or five taped matches of Courier, as well as some highlight reels, as he was actually #1 when I was born (I think so, at least), so I don't think I can give a proper answer. Given his period of sustained dominance (to a degree Roddick never showed he was capable of, even removing Federer from the equation), I would be tempted to say Courier was clearly both better and more talented.
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
I have only seen four or five taped matches of Courier, as well as some highlight reels, as he was actually #1 when I was born (I think so, at least), so I don't think I can give a proper answer. Given his period of sustained dominance (to a degree Roddick never showed he was capable of, even removing Federer from the equation), I would be tempted to say Courier was clearly both better and more talented.
I'm still pondering.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Roddick vs Courier, who was better and who was more talented (not more accomplished)?
About the same really in terms of talent. Slight edge to Courier, Roddick was better on faster surfaces and Courier better on slow. Courier was significantly closer to Roddick on fast surfaces than Roddick to him on clay.

Roddick > Courier hard courts overall
Roddick >> Courier on grass
Courier >>>> Roddick on clay
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
the inverse of this thread: Sam Querry!

he has the talent to win slams, but lacks a champion's mentality...
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
So basically you are asking for a player that does not choke? Is that even possible?

Having said that. I agree Nishikori got that mental strength. He plays a lot of big points and usually does not choke. He is one of the short list player that could beat the top 4 on any surface, but got outplayed or unlucky here and there.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
the inverse of this thread: Sam Querry!

he has the talent to win slams, but lacks a champion's mentality...
Cannot agree about Querrey at all. He has never even made a slam QF, yet you think he has the talent to win them. :confused:
 

tipsa...don'tlikehim!

Talk Tennis Guru
Cannot agree about Querrey at all. He has never even made a slam QF, yet you think he has the talent to win them. :confused:
To be fair, if Raonic can reach a grand slam SF, Querrey potentially could do the same.

By the way, his record in 5 sets matches is the worst of the top 100 I think, he's something like 1-8 or 1-9.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
To be fair, if Raonic can reach a grand slam SF, Querrey potentially could do the same.

By the way, his record in 5 sets matches is the worst of the top 100 I think, he's something like 1-8 or 1-9.
If Querrey can get back to a stable top 20 ranking maybe, but he has been going downhill lately.
 

aer0pr0

Rookie
actually joao sousa is tough as it gets on court

unfortunately he isnt very talented

but hes on the ranking he is (30 something) just on his mentality alone, cause his game is somewhat poor
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Cannot agree about Querrey at all. He has never even made a slam QF, yet you think he has the talent to win them. :confused:
yea, i think so.

i'm extrapolating some, but he has a very good serve and FH, he moves well for his size, and has a BH thats not a liability. just going off the tangibles, i would put his game ahead of Raonic's and certainly Janowics' even though his results have not comes anywhere close to playing out that way compared to them.

he just suffers from routine mental collapses! and he acts so lacksadasacal (sic) willy-nilly and carefree (almost goofy) on the court but you can tell he's nervous as hell. he just seems to have no innate confidence.
 

aer0pr0

Rookie
querrey plays good and agressive when things start to go his way, or at least dont go against him

but when the push comes to shove, querrey just collapses mentally, as DRII said the guy just gets nervous and starts playing like an amateur, he actually seems like a kid in a grown up man body, cause he seems not to know what to do when things get tough, he just gets lost, todays match vs jerzy were and exccelent example, serving for match in 2 situations both 2nd and 3rd set, got breaked both, and still got breaked once more in the next service game, all due to collapsing, i mean he offered the game to jerzy today, like a scared kid
no way he can win a important title, having an extremly agressive forehand and serve are not enough.. and querrey is only that
 
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abmk

Bionic Poster
I find it interesting that David Ferrer hasn't come up more in this thread. Here's a guy that absolutely has the heart and the mind of a champion.

Do people think that he DOES have the talent, but is simply unlucky that he happened to play in the era of Nadal, Djokovic, and Federer? That's an interesting perspective because, at least in my opinion, it would imply that the aforementioned three players that some sort of über talent that is different from that of players that managed to win some slams.

Where does that put players like Wawrinka, Gaudio, Roddick, and other one-time major winners? I'd be hard-pressed to say that any of these three guys has more heart that Ferrer.
heart ? yes

mind ? nope

he's a great fighter, but he's not that good a big point player tbh, including in TBs. One striking example was AO 11 where he was in better form than murray tbh and lost in 4 sets including two TBs where he played crappy.
 

conway

Banned
I can think of someone who has the champions mentality despite such low level talent. Marion Bartoli. Doubt we will ever see a less talented player, man or women, win a slam, and reach 2 Wimbledon finals.

The reverse would be her countrywomen Amelie Mauresmo. Just amazing she won only 2 slams with her immense talent. Bartoli is literally 5% as talented as Mauresmo, yet achieved almost as much.
 

Carsomyr

Legend
I can think of someone who has the champions mentality despite such low level talent. Marion Bartoli. Doubt we will ever see a less talented player, man or women, win a slam, and reach 2 Wimbledon finals.

The reverse would be her countrywomen Amelie Mauresmo. Just amazing she won only 2 slams with her immense talent. Bartoli is literally 5% as talented as Mauresmo, yet achieved almost as much.
I don't know.

5% seems a bit high.
 

tipsa...don'tlikehim!

Talk Tennis Guru
heart ? yes

mind ? nope

he's a great fighter, but he's not that good a big point player tbh, including in TBs. One striking example was AO 11 where he was in better form than murray tbh and lost in 4 sets including two TBs where he played crappy.
agree, i noticed quite often Ferrer doesn't play great in tie breaks.

just this year there are lots of examples, his 2 losses to Nishikori, lost every tie break he played against Nishikori.

and the recent final against Mayer in Hamburg, won the 1st tie break and then collapsed in the 3rd set tie break
 

KtM

Rookie
What are your guys thoughts about Gasquet? Seems to always win in the tiebreaks. Rock solid nerves.
 

The_Mental_Giant

Hall of Fame
Ferrer. No one works harder.
The problem with ferrer is not talent, but his lack of 10 extra cm. He has to put too much physical emphasis in order to compensate the lack of height. lets be honest, you cannot be 1 being under 6 feet/1.83 meters tall, at least not in this era. 1.85-187 is the perfect male height for tennis.
 
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