Who do you rank higher between Pancho Gonzalez? Ken Rosewall? Novak Djokovic
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Those guys are from completely different eras so it's almost impossible to compare their careers. It's also a big reason why I'm not a fan of the GOAT debate. However, I still went with Novak for the simple reason that like all sports tennis evolves and gets better with time. I don't see how tennis gets more advanced from this point on, and Novak is firmly in 3rd place behind 2 other GOAT candidates in Fedal.
mightyrick
Legend
Gonzalez - All-Time GOAT
Djokovic - Open Era GOAT
Rosewall - All-time great with incredible longevity
Djokovic - Open Era GOAT
Rosewall - All-time great with incredible longevity
xFedal
Legend
Thats What It feels like.... But the other 2 are underrated
xFedal
Legend
Reason for having Gonzalez over Novak ?
xFedal
Legend
You have Pancho ahead due to more YE#1 ?
mightyrick
Legend
My GOAT criteria is pretty straightforward. Whoever was the best in the world for the most seasons is the GOAT.
Gonzalez was best in world 8 times. Djokovic wasn't. So that ends it for me.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
Picture Pancho as stoner!
xFedal
Legend
Haha yes..... Gary are your reasons the same for ranking Pancho above the 2 due to more YE#1 ?Picture Pancho as stoner!
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Not sure if you know that Pancho actually is dead.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Pretty much.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic ranks highest of the three for me.
Gonzalez is a strange case in that he's absurdly underrated by most (many have never heard of him, and even those who have don't appreciate his career), but by a hard core of posters/historians on this site, he's considered the GOAT - which overrates him.
Rosewall? An ATG for sure, but I think Djokovic has surpassed him by now.
Gonzalez is a strange case in that he's absurdly underrated by most (many have never heard of him, and even those who have don't appreciate his career), but by a hard core of posters/historians on this site, he's considered the GOAT - which overrates him.
Rosewall? An ATG for sure, but I think Djokovic has surpassed him by now.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't really rate one above the other, because it gets into the whole GOAT thing. I just voted for one so I could see the results.
But I think Pancho was the best of his era, hands down. What he did in the Open era, over the age of 40, is downright scary. Also, in his time he was the equivalent of 6'4" or 6'5" today, because for those born in 1928 being over 6 feet tall was much more of an anomaly. He really was a freak talent. He was much more self-taught than another other champion, I think.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
xFedal
Legend
I think Pancho was 6'2 and same height as Jack Krammer.I don't really rate one above the other, because it gets into the whole GOAT thing. I just voted for one so I could see the results.
But I think Pancho was the best of his era, hands down. What he did in the Open era, over the age of 40, is downright scary. Also, in his time he was the equivalent of 6'4" or 6'5" today, because for those born in 1928 being over 6 feet tall was much more of an anomaly. He really was a freak talent. He was much more self-taught than another other champion, I think.
mightyrick
Legend
xFedal
Legend
mightyrick
Legend
Actually, Tilden was the first servebot.
Just to elaborate
How can you win the biggest prizes when they don't exist? There were no French Pro's on clay until 1956 in his tennis life time (1950 and 1953 were on cement). Still in his prime but it meant that he missed being able to compete in it a lot of times.
These were the years that Pancho Gonzales did not get the opportunity to compete in the French Pro on clay (either because there was no tournament or it was not on clay):
1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1957, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967
The US pro in 1950 was on clay however. I don’t know if he competed in it
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
If he had participated in its fullness, do you think he would have won RG?
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
There is some controversy about his height. If you look at old video of him shaking hands at the net, he looks like a giant because most other players then were so much shorter.
xFedal
Legend
What about Krammer? Also what does Djokovic have to do for you to rank him above Laver who is 2nd on your ranking.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
I couldn’t remember
xFedal
Legend
He doesn't look taller than Krammer though ...... 6'2 is tallish though....
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Kramer's just outside the top 10 for me, along with the likes of Lendl and Connors. However, he could feasibly be ranked inside someone else's top 10 and it wouldn't be a daft choice.
Djokovic finishing this year as No 1 and winning another 2 slams will probably put him 2nd for me.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
what about Nadal, does he has to win 2 more Majors to surpass Laver?
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
If he win one more RG and another on a different surface, is that enough for him to surpass "Rocket"?
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
That's what I want to know.
Rosewall was a finalist for Wimbledon at 19 and 21 before moving on to professionalism.
Why do some penalize the Australian for not winning in the ALL England Club?
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
They were both very tall men for that time.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
how good was Gonzales on clay?
Do you think he could have won in RG if he had not gone over to professionalism?
TennisDawg
Hall of Fame
As I understand it Pancho didn’t play the Slams in his prime because he was a professional and only amateurs were allowed the Slams.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
They're already in order
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't penalise Rosewall for not winning Wimbledon so take that up with someone else
I was not referring to someone specific, but some criticize Rosewall for not winning at Wimbledon.
He remains the oldest finalist in the All England Club.
mightyrick
Legend
Gonzalez was great on all surfaces. Let's put it this way, even though Rosewall had the edge in their clay matchups, Gonzalez still beat Rosewall 10 times on clay and Rosewall was 6 years younger.
Gonzalez would have beaten any size field on all surfaces at his peak and certainly during his prime. It really didn't matter who you put in front of him.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Pancho Gonzales died of stomach cancer in 1995. He was watching Wimbledon while at the hospital. He had been diagnosed with this cancer during the 1994 US Open, after he felt ill while watching Agassi vs. Chang in the quarter finals. Incidentally, Gonzales died exactly 1 year to the day after his great rival, Lew Hoad, had passed away.
Djokovic2015
Semi-Pro
Nice list, I'd have the same top 9, but with a different order. I prefer doing a top 9 than top 10, because I think there is a clear drop after 9 and Budge, Kramer, Vines, Connors, Lendl are all pretty close in the 10-14 range, so feels weird just picking one. I'd probably go with Kramer though.
As for the topic, I have Djokovic above Rosewall, but below Gonzales atm.
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