Who do you think has had more classic hit songs - Michael Jackson or Madonna?

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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Wooo some of the hostility and sharpness in this thread.

Kind of shocking.

It gets me in the mood to listen to some MJ and Madonna though. Hit me Djokovic2011. Which album should I stick on right now? Be careful to choose the right artist... :lol: :lol:
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Wooo some of the hostility and sharpness in this thread.

Kind of shocking.

It gets me in the mood to listen to some MJ and Madonna though. Hit me Djokovic2011. Which album should I stick on right now? Be careful to choose the right artist... :lol: :lol:
Haha, that all depends what mood you're in Nathaniel. :wink:
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
It doesn't conflict with anything. I said she's had more hit singles, not more number ones.
In that case you can discount some of her charted tunes because they sucked big time. More to the point, they weren't/aren't classic hits.

The reality is MJ's 'Thriller' album alone eclipses Madonna's entire body of work in terms of quality and being truly classic. It was that good. Anyone who was around in that era would know how big it was pretty much everywhere.

Like with people debating about tennis players from the 80s or 90s there is always a group of people whose history only goes back a few years, or a decade, whose picture of the situation is massively biased by more recent events which have also had the benefit of being in the social media era. Make no mistake about 'Thriller' was so big at the time it can hardly even compute by today's standards. People think Justin Timblerlake or Lady Gaga or Katy Perry etc are huge but they should understand that in his prime MJ was on another level, like comparing Michael Jordan to Larry Bird in fame. And MJ did it in an era when you basically couldn't share stuff interpersonally like you can now.
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Been a long time. Incredible production on this record.. absolutely loving it.
 

Midaso240

Hall of Fame
In that case you can discount some of her charted tunes because they sucked big time. More to the point, they weren't/aren't classic hits.

The reality is MJ's 'Thriller' album alone eclipses Madonna's entire body of work in terms of quality and being truly classic. It was that good. Anyone who was around in that era would know how big it was pretty much everywhere.

Like with people debating about tennis players from the 80s or 90s there is always a group of people whose history only goes back a few years, or a decade, whose picture of the situation is massively biased by more recent events which have also had the benefit of being in the social media era. Make no mistake about 'Thriller' was so big at the time it can hardly even compute by today's standards. People think Justin Timblerlake or Lady Gaga or Katy Perry etc are huge but they should understand that in his prime MJ was on another level, like comparing Michael Jordan to Larry Bird in fame. And MJ did it in an era when you basically couldn't share stuff interpersonally like you can now.
So many facepalm moments. Oh so Avatar and Titanic and the Avengers are classics of world cinema because they were so huge then? Any album that has a song as awful as 'The Girl As Mine' (definitely worse than anything Madonna ever did) is automatically disqualified from being one of the greatest of all time. It's a good album,but a little overrated. I think RYM chart has it about right,250ish all time...
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
...Oh so Avatar and Titanic and the Avengers are classics of world cinema because they were so huge then?
No. That was my point. Critical acclaim was massive for MJ... Madonna was just lauded as being popular despite her massive shortcomings as singer/musician. She was good at other things.

Any album that has a song as awful as 'The Girl As Mine' (definitely worse than anything Madonna ever did).....
LOL!!!.. 'American Pie' was utter rubbish pop drivel of the worst kind.

Her worst moments are so cringe-worthy they're not even comparable to MJ's bad moments.

Your post and opinion of his music demonstrates perfectly how little you know about music and, in particular, what the 80s were like.
 

Midaso240

Hall of Fame
No. That was my point. Critical acclaim was massive for MJ... Madonna was just lauded as being popular despite her massive shortcomings as singer/musician. She was good at other things.


LOL!!!.. 'American Pie' was utter rubbish pop drivel of the worst kind.

Her worst moments are so cringe-worthy they're not even comparable to MJ's bad moments.

Your post and opinion of his music demonstrates perfectly how little you know about music and, in particular, what the 80s were like.
LOL American Pie was a cover though,at least she didn't write it like Jackson did with that absolute drivel 'The Girl Is Mine'.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Bobby :lol: so much fail and bias in one thread. Seriously, I doubt anyone here is a bigger MJ fan than me, and you're just making an absolute mockery of this discussion. Thriller is NOT better than Madonna's entire body of work. He didn't even write half the tracks on it, and there IS filler. Not to mention, of course MJ is a better singer, but to say Madonna can't is nothing more than drivel. Would I ask her to sing the national anthem? No.... if you want a choir singer or someone like Whitney, then no she can't sing. If you want a very nice voice that is perfect for pop music and ballads, look no further. AGAIN, you're underrating the living hell out of Madonna just because you clearly don't like her.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
For me, it's Michael Jackson. But take that with the smallest grain of salt ever though... I didn't grow up listening to them on the radio or when they were at their peaks. I just know many, many more MJ hits.
 
Both of them sux lol
No real quality "just" amazing record sales cause ppl will buy allmost anything you repeatedly putting in their years/heads ;)
Bieber and Gaga of their times ;)
Gaga surprised me at the Wonder tribute-had no idea she was such a great singer & could play the piano. Just assumed she was a talentless attention seeker as that is all her music has ever indicated. Even Pokerface which was incredibly catchy unlike everything else she has done was smoke & mirrors.
 
Charts are a dubious thing because of how they change over time.

For example, in 2012 Rihanna equalled Madonna's (then) 12 Billboard #1s... bettered at the time by only the Beatles, Mariah Carey and Michael Jackson.

Katy Perry even matched Michael Jackson as few years ago with the most #1 singles from an album (5).

Do you really think anyone is going to argue with any credibility that Katy Perry's best album is as creative or great as 'Thriller' because they had the same amount of #1 hits?

Charts have more flaws than even sales figures when it comes to debating quality, originality or *classicness* of music.
It really has become irrelevant in this era-it is like comparing Cena or HHH'S number of world titles to Flair's, or the Dudley's tag title reigns to the Road Warriors or Midnight Express who had far less but were so superior it is a joke
 
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Any album that has a song as awful as 'The Girl As Mine' (definitely worse than anything Madonna ever did) is automatically disqualified from being one of the greatest of all time. It's a good album,but a little overrated. I think RYM chart has it about right,250ish all time...
Must have been annoying for MJ to do duets with the one guy who was a better vocalist than him-although he held his end up better than Wonder on Ebony & Ivory. I don't see that song as being bad particularly-just more of a novelty record with two great singers doing comedy. It is 100x better than the crap being released today.
 
7

70sHollywood

Guest
Madge had a lot of great tunes, mostly in the 80's/early 90's. Pure Pop Perfection. But she doesn't top Wacko. Billie Jean and Beat It by themselves are greater than most artists entire back catalogue.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Bobby is basing too much on OTW and Thriller anyway. Bad and History are better albums imo.
Now I know you're either drunk, plain trolling or so tone-deaf as to not recognise collections of music which are as close to flawless an album in the history of dance music.

Seriously. History better than Thriller or Off The Wall. WOW! That's about as accurate as saying winning Brisbane is a better achievement than winning Wimbledon. :lol::lol:
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
...I doubt anyone here is a bigger MJ fan than me
I beg to differ. You attempt to bring MJ down a peg with the songwriting commment but it just shows you don't know what you're talking about. Read on...

...He didn't even write half the tracks on it, and there IS filler....
Madonna hasn't written ANY of her big songs. MJ co-penned dozens of the ones with multiple writers. His whole career was mostly been about him half writing a song, recording his voice himself to lay the idea or concept down and then going and finishing it with Quincy or whoever. There are leaked recordings even of songs like Billie Jean before he had the full chorus - he just hummed half the lines. If you were the big MJ fan you say you are then how come you don't seem to know anything about the way he made music? (edit: clip of one of his demos of Billie Jean > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqee7ViUML0 )

Madonna is virtually the opposite - famously not involved in the songwriting of most of her biggest records AT ALL. And most of those that she does get songwriting credits for are token.

Your example of calling MJ out on song-writing is a total own-goal, a brain fart which just highlights how much more complete and talented an artist MJ was than Madonna.

As for your other comment about Off The Wall and Thriller.... From Off The Wall to Bad he consistently put out complete albums which could be listened to right through, not albums with a couple of good singles with some padding round it which basically describes EVERY Madonna album.

In the end she was a dance artist, a genre built on singles. I can't think of a Madonna album I've ever listened to from start to finish and been satisfied with it as a complete artists effort. She more a triumph of will over ability. She can't do anything artistic particularly well but never let that stop her from becoming a mega-star. But she is no MJ - she is a more commercial Debbie Harry - jumping on disco and dance trends just at the right time when they came about but never innovating and never doing anything spectacular musically.
 
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MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Now I know you're either drunk, plain trolling or so tone-deaf as to not recognise collections of music which are as close to flawless an album in the history of dance music.

Seriously. History better than Thriller or Off The Wall. WOW! That's about as accurate as saying winning Brisbane is a better achievement than winning Wimbledon. :lol::lol:
You can be as condescending as you like. SIM is a better song than the majority of Thriller. OTW may be a perfect DISCO album, but it's inferior to Bad.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I beg to differ. You attempt to bring MJ down a peg with the songwriting commment but it just shows you don't know what you're talking about. Read on...


Madonna hasn't written ANY of her big songs. MJ co-penned dozens of the ones with multiple writers. His whole career was mostly been about him half writing a song, recording his voice himself to lay the idea or concept down and then going and finishing it with Quincy or whoever. There are leaked recordings even of songs like Billie Jean before he had the full chorus - he just hummed half the lines. If you were the big MJ fan you say you are then how come you don't seem to know anything about the way he made music?

Madonna is virtually the opposite - famously not involved in the songwriting of most of her biggest records AT ALL. And most of those that she does get songwriting credits for are token.

Your example of calling MJ out on song-writing is a total own-goal, a brain fart which just highlights how much more complete and talented an artist MJ was than Madonna.

As for your other comment about Off The Wall and Thriller.... From Off The Wall to Bad he consistently put out complete albums which could be listened to right through, not albums with a couple of good singles with some padding round it which basically describes EVERY Madonna album.

In the end she was a dance artist, a genre built on singles. I can't think of a Madonna album I've ever listened to from start to finish and been satisfied with it as a complete artists effort. She more a triumph of will over ability. She can't do anything artistic particularly well but never let that stop her from becoming a mega-star. But she is no MJ - she is a more commercial Debbie Harry - jumping on disco and dance trends just at the right time when they came about but never innovating and never doing anything spectacular musically.
I really don't feel like doing what you're doing and typing paragraphs, but you're getting me close. If you want to bash Madonna for jumping on what's trendy (late in her career no less) then we can write a book about how 75% of what MJ did came from someone else. It doesn't cheapen what EITHER did to become the entertainers they did. Have several seats.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
I really don't feel like doing what you're doing and typing paragraphs, but you're getting me close...
You're clutching at straws man. No matter how you bake your argument you wont find anyone who knows anything about music who would argue for Madonna being the better musical talent than MJ. Some might argue she has more "classic hits" than him but it really depends on how you define classic.

Very few people with credibility and the ability to back up their argument would bother trying - it's a losing battle. You might as well try and argue some other utterly commercial fodder band like Coldplay is better than MJ. They're huge but, in reality, they're just pre-digested droney tosh for people who flock like sheep to whatever is easiest to consume - whether it by food, fashion, tv or music.

Write some paragraphs man. I'm keen to see what crack-pipe logic you come up with.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
You're clutching at straws man. No matter how you bake your argument you wont find anyone who knows anything about music who would argue for Madonna being the better musical talent than MJ. Some might argue she has more "classic hits" than him but it really depends on how you define classic.

Very few people with credibility and the ability to back up their argument would bother trying - it's a losing battle. You might as well try and argue some other utterly commercial fodder band like Coldplay is better than MJ. They're huge but, in reality, they're just pre-digested droney tosh for people who flock like sheep to whatever is easiest to consume - whether it by food, fashion, tv or music.

Write some paragraphs man. I'm keen to see what crack-pipe logic you come up with.
I never said she had more musical talent than Michael. You're just too biased to see straight, which is all we're arguing over in the first place. As a matter of fact, you've been the only person in this thread arguing anything, like you owe Michael something.
 
D

Deleted member 733170

Guest
Have to be honest grew up in the 80's listening to both but never really liked Jackson. Madonna has a certain nostalgia value for me and I actually think her albums from the early 80's are her best stuff.

One Miles Davis album is equal to all of Jackson's output for me at least.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
I never said she had more musical talent than Michael. You're just too biased to see straight, which is all we're arguing over in the first place...
You certainly have a major brown nose for her in the scope of this discussion about who has more classic hits. It's barely even debatable unless you ignore critical opinion, ignore common sense and desperately seek out fringe arguments.

...As a matter of fact, you've been the only person in this thread arguing anything, like you owe Michael something.
With people like you talking smack about him his legacy certainly needs it. I don't know what weird world you grew up in to have such an anti-MJ bent when it comes to his music. His weirdness certainly warrants explaining and diminished his greatness without doubt but his musical prowess is beyond any doubt at all - especially over Madonna. Up until the late 80s she was barely a in the same conversation as Whitney Houston or Prince. Had Houston not gone off the rails, found drugs and married Bobby Brown this discussion would likely be about MJ and her.

Madonna has overachieved massively and is one of the greatest successes ever in the music business. There is no doubt about that at all. But no matter how people try and bake it, MJ was a better hit machine, and at driving a whole cultural change in the music world by bringing R&B based music into popular appeal.

Need we mention the dozens of times Madonna has been sued for musical plagiarism - most of which have been settled (i.e. conceded and an amount of money paid), and that's without even bothering about her borrowing from artists for her videos/artwork (which is usually more homage to a good idea imo).
 
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Midaso240

Hall of Fame
You certainly have a major brown nose for her in the scope of this discussion about who has more classic hits. It's barely even debatable unless you ignore critical opinion, ignore common sense and desperately seek out fringe arguments.


With people like you talking smack about him his legacy certainly needs it. I don't know what weird world you grew up in to have such an anti-MJ bent when it comes to his music. His weirdness certainly warrants explaining and diminished his greatness without doubt but his musical prowess is beyond any doubt at all - especially over Madonna. Up until the late 80s she was barely a in the same conversation as Whitney Houston or Prince. Had Houston not gone off the rails, found drugs and married Bobby Brown this discussion would likely be about MJ and her.

Madonna has overachieved massively and is one of the greatest successes ever in the music business. There is no doubt about that at all. But no matter how people try and bake it, MJ was a better hit machine, and at driving a whole cultural change in the music world by bringing R&B based music into popular appeal.

Need we mention the dozens of times Madonna has been sued for musical plagiarism - most of which have been settled (i.e. conceded and an amount of money paid), and that's without even bothering about her borrowing from artists for her videos/artwork (which is usually more homage to a good idea imo).
MichaelNadal is a big fan of MJ,that's already been mentioned. You can't make someone like an artist,and no one is wrong for liking or not liking an artist...
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
MichaelNadal is a big fan of MJ,that's already been mentioned. You can't make someone like an artist,and no one is wrong for liking or not liking an artist...
His opinions on this topic show he's more of a punter. It gives a bit of perspective to his opinions on the relative merits of MJ and Madonna. He might know what he loves, but he shows he doesn't really understand the crucial musical-merit differences between the two.

MJ is a bonafide legend of music-writing, singing and close involvement in the production, as well as being a great live act. Madonna is an insane self-marketer in addition to being a great live act. Their relative music talents can't be compared on any critical level. It's like comparing the talent vs results of tennis players - they don't exist in parallel. A mega-talented person can often have far worse results than a less talented player. Unlike tennis however, musical talent is easier to pin down and spot if you have the knowledge/experience at it. Simply listening to or enjoying an artist doesn't give you that ability - that is a key point here. Opinions don't have equal merit when it comes to something like this.
 
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MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
MichaelNadal is a big fan of MJ,that's already been mentioned. You can't make someone like an artist,and no one is wrong for liking or not liking an artist...
What a clown bobby is. I've been into Michael since I was 5. I'm just capable of being objective. Hell, I've been on an MJ forum even LONGER than I've been here. He didn't write everything on Thriller, and he got LOTS of his biggest styles, ideas, etc from other people. It is what it is, and no amount of condescenscion will make Bobby look any better than me.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
His opinions on this topic show he's more of a punter. It gives a bit of perspective to his opinions on the relative merits of MJ and Madonna. He might know what he loves, but he shows he doesn't really understand the crucial musical-merit differences between the two.

MJ is a bonafide legend of music-writing, singing and close involvement in the production, as well as being a great live act. Madonna is an insane self-marketer in addition to being a great live act. Their relative music talents can't be compared on any critical level. It's like comparing the talent vs results of tennis players - they don't exist in parallel. A mega-talented person can often have far worse results than a less talented player. Unlike tennis however, musical talent is easier to pin down and spot if you have the knowledge/experience at it. Simply listening to or enjoying an artist doesn't give you that ability - that is a key point here. Opinions don't have equal merit when it comes to something like this.
You keep saying this over and over again yet it's how YOU feel about Madonna. She had half the young girls in the country dressing like her and has PLENTY of classic songs. I never said she had more than MJ, more talent than MJ, or that she was better in ANY way. I've just been attacking your CLEAR bias against her in the argument, and you take that for me not liking MJ. By the way what instruments did Michael play? And can you point me to a tour he sung live on after 1993?
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Without googling, I could probably think of 3 titles from MJ and 6 from Madonna.

Include a poll next time to protect the environment...:lol:
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
..I've been into Michael since I was 5. I'm just capable of being objective. Hell, I've been on an MJ forum even LONGER than I've been here. He didn't write everything on Thriller, and he got LOTS of his biggest styles, ideas, etc from other people.
Everything you say about MJ in terms of song-writing, and style applies fivefold more for Madonna. If your point is to bring MJ down a peg in the discussion you haven't achieved anything because it means you also brought Madonna down two pegs.

You say you've been into MJ since you were five. By the sounds of it you were 5 in the mid 90s when he was already past his prime.
 

Midaso240

Hall of Fame
As I said before,I'm not a HUGE fan of either,or biased particularly either way,but I do like a bit of stuff by both. Just thinking about it though,if I rated all their songs,I think I'd give one MJ song 5 stars(Billie Jean) and 2 Madonna songs(Like A Prayer and Live To Tell)...

I do think,artistically,Prince eclipsed both of them by quite a big margin
 
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MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Everything you say about MJ in terms of song-writing, and style applies fivefold more for Madonna. If your point is to bring MJ down a peg in the discussion you haven't achieved anything because it means you also brought Madonna down two pegs.

You say you've been into MJ since you were five. By the sounds of it you were 5 in the mid 90s when he was already past his prime.
Nothing is "5 fold" for Madonna. They both wrote some of their biggest hits, they both had co-writers for some of their biggest hits and there's some songs both didn't even touch that were hits. Madonna writes or co-writes the majority of her music. I'm not sure why you're DETERMINED to pretend she doesn't, but she does. She's heavily involved in everything she does, from her music, to her tours, to picking her dancers, to this day. MJ lost all passion for music after History. I'd have MANY more positive things to say about Michael in this thread if you weren't determined to be SO biased. You're really not allowing me to show my fandom when you're busy being the Octobrina of MJ.


As I said before,I'm not a HUGE fan of either,or biased particularly either way,but I do like a bit of stuff by both. Just thinking about it though,if I rated all their songs,I think I'd give one MJ song 5 stars(Billie Jean) and 2 Madonna songs(Like A Prayer and Live To Tell)...

I do think,artistically,Prince eclipsed both of them by quite a big margin
Yet another person with an opinion contrary to Bobby? The madness! :eek:

Anyone that needs a refresher on Madonna's hits really needs to click on this megamix :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeckB6mzuuQ

Especially Bobby :p
 
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MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
and @Midaso (about you rating only BJ 5 stars).... that just goes to what I was saying on the previous page about Bad and History, and even Dangerous. The everyday, casual fan won't know those album tracks, but unlike Bobby's thinking, it has nothing to say about the quality of them. Everything surrounding the release of Thriller was perfect, he was at the height of his popularity at the time and had no scandals. History is his most personal album and songs like Stranger In Moscow, They Don't Care About Us, The title track History, and Little Susie are right up there with his best work. So are Smooth Criminal, MITM, Dirty Diana and others.
 

Midaso240

Hall of Fame
Oh,don't get me wrong he had a lot of 4 star songs in my collection,as did Madonna but I never gave a lot of 5 star ratings,it has to be something really special. I don't think there's any artist in my collection that would have more than about 7...
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Wouldn't Jackson/Stevie Wonder be a better comparison?
Tbh I totally see the validity in what the OP is asking. She is after all the queen of pop and has a ton of hits.

Oh,don't get me wrong he had a lot of 4 star songs in my collection,as did Madonna but I never gave a lot of 5 star ratings,it has to be something really special. I don't think there's any artist in my collection that would have more than about 7...
Makes sense to me :)
 
7

70sHollywood

Guest
My Top 10 for both:

Madonna:

1. Lucky Star
2. Into the Groove
3. Vogue
4. Holiday
5. Crazy For You
6. Secret
7. La Isla Bonita
8. Cherish
9. Borderline
10. True Blue


Michael Jackson:

1. Billie Jean
2. Beat It
3. Smooth Criminal
4. Rock With You
5. Bad
6. Thriller
7. Baby Be Mine
8. Man in the Mirror
9. Dirty Diana
10. Human Nature

If I combined them into a top 10 I'd probably go 6/4 in favour of MJ. Using Midas's extremely tough 5* rating I'd give the top 2 in both 5, maybe Vogue too.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Great Madonna list, though I can't get into crazy for you. My top 10 would have Take a Bow, Frozen, and a couple tracks from the new album instead of True Blue and Holiday. Great MJ list also. I'd replace a few as well, but I do think objectively BJ may be his finest work. I think he really suffers from not performing his album tracks more, because with Madonna, people would probably give you varied lists, with MJ you'll see the same few songs, which is probably what made the OP make this thread.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Nothing is "5 fold" for Madonna. They both wrote some of their biggest hits, they both had co-writers for some of their biggest hits and there's some songs both didn't even touch that were hits.
You clearly don't follow them much for such a self-confessed fan. MJ famously was an awesome songwriter who also did lots of co-songwriting.

Madonna is famously not a songwriter who has done virtually none of her biggest hits at all other than the (industry commonality) of the artist asking for 10 or 20% of the songwriting credits of a song they DIDN'T write as part of the privilege of having the artist perform the song. She is known to change as little as one words in a whole song and demanding part of the songwriting credit (technically, contributing even one word is a collaboration).

Madonna writes or co-writes the majority of her music.
This is a convenient way to frame what really happens

I'm not sure why you're DETERMINED to pretend she doesn't, but she does.
I am not determined to. EVERYONE who knows anything about it knows it to be the case. It's not like it's some secret, it's common knowledge that many artists do this.
 
My Top 10 for both:

Madonna:

1. Lucky Star
2. Into the Groove
3. Vogue
4. Holiday
5. Crazy For You
6. Secret
7. La Isla Bonita
8. Cherish
9. Borderline
10. True Blue


Michael Jackson:

1. Billie Jean
2. Beat It
3. Smooth Criminal
4. Rock With You
5. Bad
6. Thriller
7. Baby Be Mine
8. Man in the Mirror
9. Dirty Diana
10. Human Nature

If I combined them into a top 10 I'd probably go 6/4 in favour of MJ. Using Midas's extremely tough 5* rating I'd give the top 2 in both 5, maybe Vogue too.
My favourite MJ song-probably because it was his first UK number one in 1981 when I was five-it tanked in the US in 1975 so is probably pretty much unknown outside of Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44_qWFAdjqQ
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
You clearly don't follow them much for such a self-confessed fan. MJ famously was an awesome songwriter who also did lots of co-songwriting.

Madonna is famously not a songwriter who has done virtually none of her biggest hits at all other than the (industry commonality) of the artist asking for 10 or 20% of the songwriting credits of a song they DIDN'T write as part of the privilege of having the artist perform the song. She is known to change as little as one words in a whole song and demanding part of the songwriting credit (technically, contributing even one word is a collaboration).


This is a convenient way to frame what really happens


I am not determined to. EVERYONE who knows anything about it knows it to be the case. It's not like it's some secret, it's common knowledge that many artists do this.
I'm not arguing with you anymore brah. Not worth it. I'm going by facts, I even showed you an example of MJ getting Smooth Criminal from Fred Astaire, and you're throwing news article type stuff back. I don't care about sensationalism. I think the problem here is we both know a lot about Michael and have taken the time to get to know his music, and I have done the same with Madonna. You haven't, and can't look at this objectively.
 
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Lol if you listen to Madonna. Just lol.
Double lol. :p
Dedans Penthouse said:
Triple lol. :razz:


Madonna had very little talent.
MJ had more in his pinkie than she and her posse.
Female hottie singer Re Styles of the San Francisco-based rock band The Tubes was wearing bullet bras and thongs years and years before Madonna's slick "oooh she's so edgy, she's pushing the envelope!" unoriginal, calculated act….along with Tubes singer Fee Waybill:




Madonna's a celebrity who had more ambition than talent.

Eric Clapton summed it up best: "Like Madonna is a phenomenon that I recognize, but she doesn’t make me feel anything, I can’t identify with her on any level, because all she is, is production and packaging."

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