Who do you think is mentally tougher as person: Federer or Messi?
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SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Any of that compare to 40-15erer tho? Seems like one for the books
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Kind of agree. I think Federer is a bit above average mentally, but certainly not a mental titan.
Messi is of course a mental midget.
Well i said they are both below average, but Messi not only choked, he just played like **** in all those ko-games. Federer not always choked and usually played well in the final, until he choked
vive le beau jeu !
G.O.A.T.
no 'i don't give a squirrel dropping about soccer' option ?
(he's a soccer player, right?)
(he's a soccer player, right?)
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
I see what you did there.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
None of them, honesty. Lionel Messi is what Argentinians call a "pecho frío", that is, a person who underperforms under circumstances of high pression. This "pecho frío" actitud of Messi directly contradicts the strong character and effectiveness of the legendary Pele with the Brazilian team, the magician Maradona with a poor Argentinian team or the complete Cristiano both at club level and national team level.
No wonder why all football experts call him Lionel Missing. Lionel Missing choked/dissapeared in the 2010 World Cup (0 goals), 2014 World Cup (scored 0 goals in the fourth round, quarterfinals, semifinals and finals), the 2016 Copa America (he missed a decissive penalti) and in the Champions League 2011 (0 goals against Inter), Champions League 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 (0 goals in the fourth round, quarterfinals and semifinals in those editions).
No wonder why all football experts call him Lionel Missing. Lionel Missing choked/dissapeared in the 2010 World Cup (0 goals), 2014 World Cup (scored 0 goals in the fourth round, quarterfinals, semifinals and finals), the 2016 Copa America (he missed a decissive penalti) and in the Champions League 2011 (0 goals against Inter), Champions League 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 (0 goals in the fourth round, quarterfinals and semifinals in those editions).
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The Blond Blur
Hall of Fame
Ol' Rog is by no means a mental midget. Now compared to the rest of the Big 3 he is mentally the shortest. RAFA and Joker are over 6' ft tall and Ol' Rog is that dude who's 5'9, but says he's 5'10.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
I voted Fed because I've never seen Messi win a tennis match from 2 sets to 0 down
Fairhit
Professional
It's called football or fútbol.
clout
Hall of Fame
Still the greatest ever though
beltsman
Legend
lol don't care what other countries call it
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Makes sense you have a Russian as your avatar lol
I know who O.J. is.
Fairhit
Professional
The Federer of football.
Fairhit
Professional
Why should you? And just sharing its real name, soccer is just a silly nickname.
BorgTheGOAT
Hall of Fame
Absolutely zero clue. Calling it soccer on top of it. Anyways, Messi IS mentally weak compared to his peers (ATG and GOAT candidates).
BorgTheGOAT
Hall of Fame
To the question: both of them seriously lack in the mental toughness department compared to other greats.
Fairhit
Professional
There's an argument to be made there.
Messi routinely misses his chances at big stages, his success relays on his teammates at Barcelona more than in his leadership and that has become obvious when he's playing with Argentina, there he's the one that has to carry his team and every single time he's let them down.
He's a giant talent wise but mentally not so much.
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
honestly I wish Messi could be more like Ronaldo, mentally
I dont know how he compares to Fed but I do think hes lacking compared to CR7
the world cup 2014/2018 and that CL debacle earlier in the year are so fresh in my mind
I dont know how he compares to Fed but I do think hes lacking compared to CR7
the world cup 2014/2018 and that CL debacle earlier in the year are so fresh in my mind
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
I dont think its completely fair to lay the responsibility on one person in a team sport but I do generally agree that Messi could have done more
of course the Argentine team have their faults to bear as well, lets not make this all about Messi
AnOctorokForDinner
Legend
Invalid comparison, succerball is a team sport and tennez is an individual sport.
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
helixx
Hall of Fame
D
Deleted member 763691
Guest
Federer wins most of his 5-setters, so he'd be at least top 3 in the world in mental toughness.
He may even be mentally tougher than Rafa
Only Djokovic is clearly mentally tougher than Federer.
He may even be mentally tougher than Rafa
Only Djokovic is clearly mentally tougher than Federer.
yokied
Professional
Football does not require anything like the levels of concentration and mental toughness that tennis does, for a lot longer than 90 minutes. Then there's the blunt reality of football that the pressure and decision-making is distributed across 11 teammates. Any top 200 tennis player is mentally tougher than any footballer.
ScottleeSV
Professional
12 votes for Messi? Really?
This being the guy good enough to score about 100 goals a season domestically but has bottled it in just about every world cup and copa America he's ever played.
This being the guy good enough to score about 100 goals a season domestically but has bottled it in just about every world cup and copa America he's ever played.
Fairhit
Professional
Of course, the team has to do something and it's not only Messi's fault but, the ATGs have to have that mental edge, they have to be leaders; Maradona literally and figuratively singlehandedly carried argenti a in Mexico 86, Portugal doesn't have great players and Ronaldo carries them through, meanwhile Argentina today has a superior team, not great but better than average and obviously the weight of everything will fall on the weak shoulders if Messi whom needs to have a team formed around him, he needs to be pampered and lacks the mental strength to face the hard challenges.
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
Not surprised it has come down to this. We have criticized the finest tennis players over the years for this or that reason, so it's time to move to another sport for a moment.
Messi has been surrounded mostly by garbage all around for the last 2-3 seasons now, and has stood out as the best performer when teammates were top quality too. But I guess it's much more interesting to scapegoat the best there is rather than call a spade a spade.
Messi has been surrounded mostly by garbage all around for the last 2-3 seasons now, and has stood out as the best performer when teammates were top quality too. But I guess it's much more interesting to scapegoat the best there is rather than call a spade a spade.
Bukmeikara
Legend
I share your opinion:
1. Tennis is an individual sport, its common sense that being 1 on 1 and only counting on yourself, not being able to be substituted, the constant fight with momentum and your own toughts makes you as toughter as you can be. And we are speaking about the most successful of all tennis players.
2. About Messi: people lack confidence and like to critisize the greats, it makes them feel important. Also they have this stupid understanding of being a "leader" that you have to be extremely vocal and arrogant ... a.k.a Ronaldo. People ask from Messi to be entirely different person so that he could fit their narative. He leads by example, by giving his best and not complaining about his teammates or trying to make everything about him(like someone else). Every ten games - Messi has one bad match and people concentrate on that instead of the 9 others. For example:
Messi was phenomenal in the first game against Liverpool(3-0) but had kind of mediocre one in the second(not bad, he created plenty of chances) and people bring it up as failure. Upper comments someone mentioned that Messi didnt scored in the eliminations rounds in the World Cup ... so is Ronaldo - he hasnt scored outside the group stage. But Messi has so many ways to be positive for his team - he is the best playmaker in the world, at the WC 2014 he was number 1 for dribbles per game - it was number around 6-8, the second best had around 2.8 and all this being triple teamed every match. The last world cup, he didnt score against France but he assisted for two goals. Recently he had a match with Barca - two goals, two assissts. The difference between Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo is a world class player. Another similar leader as Messi - Steph Curry
Fairhit
Professional
I agree, Messi is the best there is and arguably the BOAT but he lacks in the leadership department, he is not as vocal as Ronaldo and doesn't have to be if he leads by example but that doesn't happen either, he's the best when the match is in his favor but tends to dissappear when the going gets tough, then is when his team mates have to look at the best and find the way and then is when Lio tends to disappear and just look at the ground.
Bukmeikara
Legend
1. Maradona had a famous God goal that helped them to beat England in 86. If Messi had such against Germany he would have won it. By using your criteria you want to make the claim that the entire legacy of Messi was in the hands of Palacio and Higuain, one few missed chances?
2. Portugal does have great players. In 2004 they hosted an Euro and had Figo, Ronaldo, Deco, Rui Costa and the entire Porto, Chealsea sides that won the Champions League in the same year. They lost to Greece .. twise. Now they still have players like Silva who was top 3 in voting for player of the Year in England. Also Ronaldo has ZERO goals in elimination games at World Cups - how is he a leader and Messi not? What team Messi has around him - they have like 5 stars in Messi, Dibala, Higuain, Aguero, Martinez, Ikardi all of whom play at the same positions!! I dont know if you play Fifa but there are ratings for each player and in Argentina, behind the attacking line there isnt a single player with more than 82-83 some of which are in the 70's. For comparison - regular stars are 85+, superstars are 88+
3. Messi has been the best player for Barcelona during their biggest highs and lowest low s... like now, with disfunctional team, coach and board and they still win titles and reach SF's in CL. If they didnt lose against Liverpool, they win the CL ... with a pretty "normal" team compared to the ones in 2011 or 2015
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Bukmeikara
Legend
What you are asking for its impossible. Every single star has bad nights. You consider Messi mentally weak, giv me names that are more proven than him, at the biggest stages? Messi has most goals, most assists and most dribbles in La Liga in the past two years - how is that dissapearing? He has the most goals at El Classico, just rewatch the SF against Real Madrid in 2011(0-2) where with ten men he took the ball from centre and passed 5-6 guys and scored a goal. Is that not a leader at the biggest stage?
The Fedfather
Hall of Fame
I'd say Messi is less prone to feel nervousness and pressure, perhaps due to being a part of a team and sharing responsibility with others. However, when he does feel the pressure (mainly with Argentina), it hits him super hard. Federer is much more likely to overcome his nerves when it matters most IMO.
Fairhit
Professional
I don't know how people get so worked up about this, I'm not denying what makes Messi great, I'm not denying he's the best, I'm just saying that he's not the best leader, forget any comparison with CR7 or any other rival, you want to see leadership, take a look a waht used to do Puyol, he was a leader, he didn't dribble 6 guys and scored, he wasn't score leader, he wasn't the playmaker, he was the leader, he was the one that brought the team together, he was the one that inspired everyone, he always kept them fighting and it wasn't only with Barcelona, it was the same with Spain, he was a leader and despite all the good qualities Messi has, leadership isn't one of them.
If any of us could have the equivalent success of 20 single GS titles in our own professions, we'd all be way, way up from where we are, and our mental toughness would be a central reason for it. That said, Fed seems not up to Novak or Nadal in that department but compare him to virtually anyone else he's competed with for all these years. Tennis leaves you naked out there, and if you have the guts to play and you're human, you may experience a 40-15 type nightmare. But compare that to the great steadfast Borg (whom I loved, by the way), who physically and mentally recoiled before spectators' eyes in the 1981 U.S. Open final against McEnroe, surrendering for the final set-and-a-half. Which was worse?
clout
Hall of Fame
Lol isn't Zac like 5 ft 7
I voted Fed because I've never seen Messi win a tennis match from 2 sets to 0 down
Bender
G.O.A.T.
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