Who gets out of Djokovic group

M

Milanez82

Hall of Fame
So what happens if Djokovic and Rune win 2-0 next matches

Sinner then has 2 wins and 4-3
Rune 2 wins and 5-2
Djokovic 2 wins and 5-3

In this scenario Sinner is actually out?

And Rune wins 2-1 then all 3 have 2 wins and 5-3 in sets, what then?

They do a three way between them where Sinner is 3-3, Rune 3-3 and Djokovic 3-3

How do they decide who goes through?
 
Milanez82 said:
So what happens if Djokovic and Rune win 2-0 next matches

Sinner then has 2 wins and 4-3
Rune 2 wins and 5-2
Djokovic 2 wins and 5-3

In this scenario Sinner is actually out?

And Rune wins 2-1 then all 3 have 2 wins and 5-3 in sets, what then?

They do a three way between them where Sinner is 3-3, Rune 3-3 and Djokovic 3-3

How do they decide who goes through?
Click to expand...
I think H2H
 
Per Tennis Channel, Rune only got credit for 1 set. They listed him at 2-2 in sets while Djoker was at 3-3. And Rune was something like 18-20 in games.

Sinner played at a very high level today. I think he will beat Rune and Djoker will beat Hurkacz to push those to into the semis.
 
If Rune beats Sinner 2-1 and Djoker beats Hurkcz 2-1, then Sinner wins 3-way tiebreak and Rune gets 2nd spot, due to 4-3 sets won beats Djoker’s 5-4
 
Pheasant said:
Per Tennis Channel, Rune only got credit for 1 set. They listed him at 2-2 in sets while Djoker was at 3-3. And Rune was something like 18-20 in games.

Sinner played at a very high level today. I think he will beat Rune and Djoker will beat Hurkacz to push those to into the semis.
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I forgot about the games, that shall be the final tie breaker.

Rune surely got a 2-0 in sets counted, not his fault the other guy forfeited.
 
Elasticovic and holger going to sfs if 2 to zero both win their next matches, if 5-3 all three by sets then game % coming in
 
Milanez82 said:
I forgot about the games, that shall be the final tie breaker.

Rune surely got a 2-0 in sets counted, not his fault the other guy forfeited.
Click to expand...

He gets 2-0 in sets but he doesn’t get 12-1 in games, which is a bonkers rule. He should get both sets and games. But if not games, then not sets, either. The rule needs to be the same for both.
 
helterskelter said:
He gets 2-0 in sets but he doesn’t get 12-1 in games, which is a bonkers rule. He should get both sets and games. But if not games, then not sets, either. The rule needs to be the same for both.
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So he gets 2-0 in sets but only 2-1 in games?
Maybe there is some rule that says on forfeit you get 3-0 3-0
 
Hitman said:
Depends on Rune and Sinner match still.
Click to expand...
It does, but only if Rune wins in 3, and at that point it goes to games won percentage, which is still in Djokovic’s favour unless Novak squeaks by in 2 tiebreaks or something and Rune is very dominant in his winning sets while keeping the losing set close vs Sinner. If Sinner wins then Djokovic is of course through regardless of his result, so it’s still more or less in Djokovic’s hands. A straight set win against Hurkacz (especially a dominant one that doesn’t involve tiebreaks; obviously tough in these conditions) will more than likely be enough to secure qualification. That won’t be straightforward in these conditions though.
 
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Milanez82 said:
If Rune wins 2-1 and Djokovic 2-0 then all three have equal wins and sets won-lost and looks it will come down to overall +- in games.
Click to expand...
Correct

Mivic said:
It does, but only if Rune wins in 3, and at that point it goes to games won percentage, which is still in Djokovic’s favour unless Novak squeaks by in 2 tiebreaks or something and Rune is very dominant in his winning sets plus keeps the losing set close vs Sinner. If Sinner wins then Djokovic is of course through regardless of his result.
Click to expand...

Hence the point, Djokovic's fate depends quite a bit on what happens in the Rune-Sinner match.
 
Hitman said:
Correct



Hence the point, Djokovic's fate depends quite a bit on what happens in the Rune-Sinner match.
Click to expand...
It does depend on the other result, but it’s pretty likely that a straight set win will be enough to secure qualification for Djokovic, especially if he can win in good fashion, which is something he can control. Obviously it won’t be easy.
 
This is why this event is really a bit pointless. The permutations are way too complex due to an alternate coming in. It makes a mockery of the event. Djokovic has to play a different player than sinner did and a guy likely in much better form than tsitsipas. Its just plain daft. The format needs radically change. Why not have a 2 week event where 8 players play each other once and the top 2 play a best of 5 set final. And for god sake bring back carpet for indoor tennis.
 
Hitman said:
Correct



Hence the point, Djokovic's fate depends quite a bit on what happens in the Rune-Sinner match.
Click to expand...
Madness. At least have the matches played at the same time! I really hate this event so much. I just hope sinner and djokovic go through. Obviously the best in their group. But Rune probably beats sinner who will be gassed now. Djokovic has a much harder match with hurcacz than tsitsipas would have been. Just a farce.
 
jm1980 said:
I have done some additional calculations and it looks like it is impossible for Djokovic to be left out with a 2-0 win over Hurkacz
Click to expand...
So when there is 3 way tie, set/game calculation will include all matches in the group stage?
It could be much better to include only matches between the 3 players. Don't you think?
 
Neptune said:
So when there is 3 way tie, set/game calculation will include all matches in the group stage?
It could be much better to include only matches between the 3 players. Don't you think?
Click to expand...
Yes, it should only include the tied players. But no, that's not the way it's done right now
 
messiahrobins said:
This is why this event is really a bit pointless. The permutations are way too complex due to an alternate coming in. It makes a mockery of the event. Djokovic has to play a different player than sinner did and a guy likely in much better form than tsitsipas. Its just plain daft. The format needs radically change. Why not have a 2 week event where 8 players play each other once and the top 2 play a best of 5 set final. And for god sake bring back carpet for indoor tennis.
Click to expand...
In your format you could still have a 3 way tie (or a tie with even more players) at the top. Then you will still need tiebreaking procedures. You will also need to have alternates to replace players if they get injured. It all ends up leading to the same issues.

And of course with an 8-people group there are even more possible permutations. So it will become even more complex
 
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jm1980 said:
In your format you could still have a 3 way tie at the top. Then you will still need tiebreaking procedures. You will also need to have alternates to replace players if they get injured. It all ends up leading to the same issues.

And of course with an 8-people group there are even more possible permutations. So it will become even more complex
Click to expand...
Glad that Nole already won 6.
Would be a little annoying in such situation if he is still sitting on an EGG.
 
jm1980 said:
Yes, it should only include the tied players. But no, that's not the way it's done right now
Click to expand...

Now if Sinner lose, 3 tie.
Calculating only matches between the 3 tied players at least limit the impact of outlier like Tsitsipas.
 
Given he’s playing in front of his own people I still see Sinner turning up tonight.

Rune might still win as match is bigger for him. Still there a few reasons still might still want win:

1) Get extra 200 points
2) Win group and avoid Meddy (he still struggles more with meddy compared to Alcaraz or Zverev)
3) He’s playing in front of his own people that is a big factor. It easier to rank if he wasn’t
4) He not beat Rune yet so he will want to change that rivalry as these 2 will fight got big prizes next year
5) By losing he could lose his momentum and edge for semis.

Of course he might still want Djokovic out but there is still a lot to benefit for Sinner by winning here.
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
Given he’s playing in front of his own people I still see Sinner turning up tonight.

Rune might still win as match is bigger for him. Still there a few reasons still might still want win:

1) Get extra 200 points
Click to expand...
You're forgetting the 1500 points for an undefeated champion and the 4 million bonus if undefeated. No chance in hell Sinner tanks. Believe me, I wish he would, but it's not happening in front of an hysterical home crowd.
 
BeatlesFan said:
You're forgetting the 1500 points for an undefeated champion and the 4 million bonus if undefeated. No chance in hell Sinner tanks. Believe me, I wish he would, but it's not happening in front of an hysterical home crowd.
Click to expand...
IMO, Rune is only in contention because of the idiotic rule that he got a w/o and 2-0 win after only 3 games vs Tsitsipas, who should never have tried to play the match because he knew he could not finish it. Still, Novak has won this title 6 times and has had a great year ending YE #1, got to 400 weeks at #1 and 8 YE at #1.
 
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BeatlesFan said:
You're forgetting the 1500 points for an undefeated champion and the 4 million bonus if undefeated. No chance in hell Sinner tanks. Believe me, I wish he would, but it's not happening in front of an hysterical home crowd.
Click to expand...
He may not outright tank but I don't see him giving 100% effort. Maybe 60% tops, and would decrease even further if he loses a set
 
Sinner breaks with unreal drop volley to serve for the match!

On another note, true winners don't calculate and it seems Sinner is here to stomp on the competition in front of his crowd.
Perhaps this will be his Davis cup moment that Djokovic had in 2010,after which he never turned back.
 
D3rID474_o.png
 
Good job Sinner, now the Tsitsipas mess is over.

Stupid ATP should change rule for 3 way tie: calculating only matches between the 3 tied players to at least limit the impact of outlier like Tsitsipas.

Both @jm1980 and I, and many others know this, how stupid can ATP be to not know?
 
threehandedbackhand said:
3kHXPCg.png
Click to expand...

Yes, way to be condescendent in a situation, where player actually deserves to enter semi-finals from 2-1 record in his RR group, but because of some stupid extraordinary circumstances, in which some fool takes advantage of the flaw system and jeopardise that player's deserved chances to be in the semis by pulling off some stupid stunt and thus we are in this situation now...this surely warrants for pictures such as this! Way to be petty!
 
[content deleted by user]
 
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threehandedbackhand said:
What's the problem? Is this Rune's fault he had a good chance to advance?
Click to expand...

I was talking about Tsitsipas, not Rune!...were it not for the greek Novak would advance normally by beating Tsitsipas likely in 2 sets in his 3rd match even if he did lose to Sinner like he did last time...but because of this fool, it is Rune that still had chances over Novak himself...this is why i called you out! The only reason why even with 2-1 record in his group Novak was still in danger of losing his semi-final spot (even from the 2nd place!) is because of what Tsitsipas did by retiring mid match!...
 
Milanez82 said:
Sinner breaks with unreal drop volley to serve for the match!

On another note, true winners don't calculate and it seems Sinner is here to stomp on the competition in front of his crowd.
Perhaps this will be his Davis cup moment that Djokovic had in 2010,after which he never turned back.
Click to expand...
IF that is the case, Nole has to stomp on him now. Don't give even a little bit confidence.
 
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