Who had it tougher?

[AO13]

Djokovic would have won 5-6 majors last 2 years without SinneraZ. No age excuses please

Yeah, because he is so good even at 37, 38, 39 years, go figure.

But you are not a person to have a discussion with because of obvious trolling or like Hitman said, just flat ouy lying.​

 

[NYTennisfan]

Hmm, tough one. The guy who beat Nadal 4 times, Federer and Murray or the guy who beat Alcaraz once and a Cornucopia of Mugs.

 

[ND-13]

Yeah, because he is so good even at 37, 38, 39 years, go figure.

But you are not a person to have a discussion with because of obvious trolling or like Hitman said, just flat ouy lying.​

Right , because Djokovic intentionally tanked the Saudi Slam matches. No one is saying they are ATP counted matches but they are true losses.

 

[dking68]

SINNER

 

[gamelovergold]

This debate is getting hotter.
Novak fought against Federer and nadal .Sinner is not facing same competition but let us not think that Sinner acheivements are any lesser.
If your OPPONENT is not ATG then it is his problem . You as a ATG player are expected to win easy and Sinner is just doing that.

 

[AO13]

This debate is getting hotter.
Novak fought against Federer and nadal .Sinner is not facing same competition but let us not think that Sinner acheivements are any lesser.
If your OPPONENT is not ATG then it is his problem . You as a ATG player are expected to win easy and Sinner is just doing that.

He is indeed ruthless towards lower ranked opponents during this run.

The question is, if he played Carlos in 4 finals during the run instead of just one, and Novak in one of the semi finals, would this run still active? It doesn't matter really, he made a new record, but it is interesting to think about it.​

 

[gamelovergold]

He is indeed ruthless towards lower ranked opponents during this run.

The question is, if he played Carlos in 4 finals during the run instead of just one, and Novak in one of the semi finals, would this run still active? It doesn't matter really, he made a new record, but it is interesting to think about it.​

One of the great player (Nadal) said
IF IF IF doesn't exist.
Great truth never have been said this clearly.
CARLOS injury was unfortunate but what Sinner can do ?
He is trying for clay sweep which only once acheived before by NADAL.

 

[Rosstour]

I think it’s a disrespect to the players of the past to create a fifth slam. Not to mention the lack of prestige. 4 slams is perfect.

We don’t need the Saudis to suck the soul out of tennis.

It’s a pity you don’t like Jews, we agree on so many other things.

 

[Pheasant]

It’s close. Sinner did his without taking a Masters event off. However, he had a long break after the ATP finals. So he’s at 27 straight this year without a long break while dropping only 2 sets in 27 matches. Djoker had much tougher competition. So for now, I give Djoker the edge. I’m going to handicap Sinner by 5 matches, due to competition and due to the long break Sinner got after winning Paris. However, if Sinner wins Rome, then it will get much tougher to call. But Sinner hasn’t won Rome yet.

I will give this one to Djoker for now.

 

[One]

No question abou Sinner's level of play. In the early 2010's, he would be fighting with big 4 for biggest titles. However, his competition now is nonexistend, and we still have to see wheater his level of play is sustainable for longer period.
Also, in 2011, Novak had to play 5 matches in Madrid, Rome, Montreal and Cincy, while the draw has been expanded to 96 players now, giving Sinner two more easy matches in Madrid and Rome.
That being said, a record is a record.

 

[AO13]

One of the great player (Nadal) said
IF IF IF doesn't exist.
Great truth never have been said this clearly.
CARLOS injury was unfortunate but what Sinner can do ?
He is trying for clay sweep which only once acheived before by NADAL.

I agree.

 

[DSH]

That's not the actual part of the troll though....

He is still counting 2 exho matches as legit official matches to give Sinner the 7 matches, when we all know the real H2H between them is 6-5....so if Sinner didn't even beat Djokovic 7 times in total ever, how did he win 7 matches in a row?

I don't know if you want to call it trolling or just flat of lying, take your pick.

Yes, counting exhibitions as official matches is incorrect and in bad taste.

 

[NachoGPT]

It’s a pity you don’t like Jews, we agree on so many other things.

?? lol I have no problems with Jews. Just the state of Israel. Which plenty of Jews are also against. Mandy Patinkin and Hannah Einbender for example.

Jewish figures across the globe call on UN and world leaders to sanction Israel

Exclusive: In an open letter, Israeli ex-officials, artists and intellectuals say ‘unconscionable’ actions in Gaza amount to genocide

www.theguardian.com

 

[Rosstour]

?? lol I have no problems with Jews. Just the state of Israel. Which plenty of Jews are also against. Mandy Patinkin and Hannah Einbender for example.

Jewish figures across the globe call on UN and world leaders to sanction Israel

Exclusive: In an open letter, Israeli ex-officials, artists and intellectuals say ‘unconscionable’ actions in Gaza amount to genocide

www.theguardian.com

If you kicked me off a Discord for “randomly showing up to defend Israel” then your problem isn’t Israel

 

[Pheasant]

What’s so amazing about those streaks is that is so easy to have a rotten match.

I will pick Federer as an example.

2005 Monte Carlo. He lost to Gasquet in the QF. Now granted, he’s not beating Nadal anyway. But he shouldn’t have lost to Gasquet.

2006 Cinci: Fed was already running out of gas in Montreal when he was pushed to 3 sets by Turnsunov, Malisse, Gonzalez, and Gasquet in order! Then, a baby Murray bumped Fed in straights. Fed was terrible in this match. In R4, Murray got smoked by Roddick in straights. This was not a good version of Murray that knocked out peak Fed on a fast hard court.

2007 IW and Miami. Fed was taken out by Canas these are bad losses as well for peak Fed.


My point is, these types of streaks require remarkable consistency; especially in a best of 3 setup. So yeah, the level of competition must be factored in. But a really long streak, especially without taking a Masters event off is very impressive as well. A Zverev type of player can zone in a best of 3 setup and cause upsets quite easily. When he won his 2 ATP finals titles, he beat Djoker in each tourney. He also beat Federer as well(Fed and Djoker back-to-back in semis and final respectively; both in straight sets in 2018).

 

[Razer]

If you kicked me off a Discord for “randomly showing up to defend Israel” then your problem isn’t Israel

I think you were kicked for opposing @NachoGPT's love for WWE, you said WWE is for kids and not for men who want to attract ladies, LOL

 

[AO13]

Updated the OP. It is now 33 consecutive wins and 10 times facing top 10 player, since Medvedev was ranked number 9 during their encounter. It goes on and on and it will continue since I don't think Ruud has mentality to end the run. It will have to be Alcaraz who will stop it, or fresh injury free Djokovic which is highly unlikeable.​

 

[Clay lover]

I'm not a weak-era or "good ol' days" merchant but man is it hard to spin Sinner having tougher competition

 

[AO13]

Brutal Sinner. If he wins Roland Garros, he can almost complete tennis at only 24 years. Only Olympics left to conquer.​

 

[Hitman]

Brutal Sinner. If he wins Roland Garros, he can almost complete tennis at only 24 years. Only Olympics left to conquer.​

And it will happen on HC....

 

[MeatTornado]

I'm not a weak-era or "good ol' days" merchant but man is it hard to spin Sinner having tougher competition

Sinner played more recently and the game always evolves. Ergo Sinner had the harder competition.

Boom, spin solved. Checkmate, jokobots.

 

[NachoGPT]

Maybe years ending in 6 are just destined to be weak. 2006, 2016, 2026

 

[Breakpointerer]

Maybe years ending in 6 are just destined to be weak. 2006, 2016, 2026

Looking forward to Sinner doing the CYGS in 2036

 

[DSH]

It’s close. Sinner did his without taking a Masters event off. However, he had a long break after the ATP finals. So he’s at 27 straight this year without a long break while dropping only 2 sets in 27 matches. Djoker had much tougher competition. So for now, I give Djoker the edge. I’m going to handicap Sinner by 5 matches, due to competition and due to the long break Sinner got after winning Paris. However, if Sinner wins Rome, then it will get much tougher to call. But Sinner hasn’t won Rome yet.

I will give this one to Djoker for now.

What about now?

 

[StefanosRespecter]

So Novak was basically playing mailmen and bus drivers before facing Fedal on the semis or finals. Pretty easy answer here.

 

[StefanosRespecter]

That 2011 Rome run is insane. Wawrinka, Soderling, Murray, Nadal

Compared to Sinner with Popyrin and Rublev. lol

Never even heard of Soderling.

I think Sinner's run was better.

 

[NachoGPT]

Never even heard of Soderling.

You trolling? lol

 

[StefanosRespecter]

Are we sure Fed was better than Sinner? Much to ponder.

 

[AO13]

Sinner is brutal. I do believe the run will continue untill he faces Alcaraz or Djokovic, but I honestly think only Alcaraz can stop him.

That being said, again, it does beg the question would he accomplish all of this if during this run he played Alcaraz 4 times in finals instead of just once. For instance, in Paris, Indian Wells, Monte Carlo (as they did play) and Rome. And put Djokovic in semi finals of Indian Wells.

Boy oh boy I doubt the run would still be intact.

But if, if, if...​

 

[MichaelNadal]

Ultronians all of a sudden:

 

[Breakpointerer]

So Novak was basically playing mailmen and bus drivers before facing Fedal on the semis or finals. Pretty easy answer here.

Meanwhile Sinner played mailmen and bus drivers in the semis and finals too. Yeah pretty easy answer indeed.

 

[AO13]

Ultronians all of a sudden:

Why the negativity?

 

[Donmikan]

This debate is getting hotter.
Novak fought against Federer and nadal .Sinner is not facing same competition but let us not think that Sinner acheivements are any lesser.
If your OPPONENT is not ATG then it is his problem . You as a ATG player are expected to win easy and Sinner is just doing that.

Yes, thats the difference between ATG and the GOAT. Beating mid competition vs beating fellow ATGs

 

[MichaelNadal]

Why the negativity?

Numbers don't tell the whole story, that's a GOOD thing

 

[StefanV]

Even with context, Nadal is inferior to Djokovic.

 

[DSH]

Ultronians all of a sudden:

Djokovic's fans now want to put the numbers aside and explain why things happened the way they did.

 

[Julian Houston]

Sinner’s run is overrated as hell. Beating everyone below 5 rallies on clay. The competition is easier than Federer 2004-2007 days as he still needs to play teenage Nadal.

Giving Federer this competition he will win on clay like Sinner similarly and 4 slams.

 

[AO13]

Djokovic's fans now want to put the numbers aside and explain why things happened the way they did.

We won't put the numbers aside untill someone gets 25 slams, 41 Masters, 8 ATP finals and 429 weeks and at least 1 Olympic gold and silver, since Novak has gold and bronze.

So, tl;dr, we're never putting numbers aside. ​

 

[gamelovergold]

We won't put the numbers aside untill someone gets 25 slams, 41 Masters, 8 ATP finals and 429 weeks and at least 1 Olympic gold and silver, since Novak has gold and bronze.

So, tl;dr, we're never putting numbers aside. ​

Sinner will break many records but what about longevity record.
Novak is just on the verge of appearing in his 82 th slam .
Will Sinner reach that figure?

 

[SneederFeeder]

I know this is a ragebait thread so I will respond in ragebait kind and say Djokovic had it tougher because Sinner is a better player

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Welcome to Contextville, Djokonauts. Nice of you to finally join us.

 

[Neptune]

The broader context (guess who always ignores the context or lies about it?)

Thread 'Career Finals and Peak Finals—Truth Hurts'

Oct 14, 2024

Career Finals​	vs Top5​	T5 Weight​	vs Top10​	T10 Weight​	vs T11+​	T11+ Weight​	vs All​
Nole​	85 (53-32) 62.35%​	60.28%​	105 (69-36) 65.71%​	74.47%​	36 (30-6) 83.33%​	25.53%​	141 (99-42) 70.21%​
Fed​	61 (30-31) 49.18%​	39.10%​

...

• Neptune
• Replies: 9
• Forum: General Pro Player Discussion

• 

Thread 'Which Gap Is Wider?'

Sep 16, 2024

Nole over Fed, vs Fed over Lendl.
Most Nolefams are still in disbelief, even after someone pointed out 'The Emperor's New Clothes' on Fed.
When will people realize that tennis careers can be inflated, and understand how and why?

Career​	vs Top5​	T5 Weight​	vs Top10​	T10 Weight​	vs T11+​	T11+ Weight​	vs All​
Nole​	202 (123-79) 60.89%​	15.09%​	373 (258-115)...​

• Neptune
• goat boat big3 big 3 lendl novak djokovic nole djoker roger federer
• Replies: 87
• Forum: General Pro Player Discussion

• 

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

The broader context (guess who always ignores the context or lies about it?)

Thread 'Career Finals and Peak Finals—Truth Hurts'

Oct 14, 2024

Career Finals​	vs Top5​	T5 Weight​	vs Top10​	T10 Weight​	vs T11+​	T11+ Weight​	vs All​
Nole​	85 (53-32) 62.35%​	60.28%​	105 (69-36) 65.71%​	74.47%​	36 (30-6) 83.33%​	25.53%​	141 (99-42) 70.21%​
Fed​	61 (30-31) 49.18%​	39.10%​

...

• Neptune
• Replies: 9
• Forum: General Pro Player Discussion

• 

Thread 'Which Gap Is Wider?'

Sep 16, 2024

Nole over Fed, vs Fed over Lendl.
Most Nolefams are still in disbelief, even after someone pointed out 'The Emperor's New Clothes' on Fed.
When will people realize that tennis careers can be inflated, and understand how and why?

Career​	vs Top5​	T5 Weight​	vs Top10​	T10 Weight​	vs T11+​	T11+ Weight​	vs All​
Nole​	202 (123-79) 60.89%​	15.09%​	373 (258-115)...​

• Neptune
• goat boat big3 big 3 lendl novak djokovic nole djoker roger federer
• Replies: 87
• Forum: General Pro Player Discussion

• 

Irony so thick you could swim through it.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Sinner’s run will end up better. He will win more and set a new record win streak.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Ultronians all of a sudden:

Not me. It always been about the numbers. Sinner takes this one!

 

[Jonas78]

The insane thing is that Nole did it in 2011, one of the toughest years. Sinner might end up crushing the record completely though. In the end, you cant do more than winning the title, the competition is what it is.

 

[The Blond Blur]

I like that competition and context matters now all of a sudden.

 

[Zeref123]

Spot on. Past players really had just 3 majors . How fair is it to compare counts based on having 4 majors ?

Also moving to Australia or even to the US was no joke back then if you were born in Europe.

 

[DSH]

Sinner will break many records but what about longevity record.
Novak is just on the verge of appearing in his 82 th slam .
Will Sinner reach that figure?

No.

 

[Pheasant]

IMHO, Djoker’s 2011 season was the 3rd best in the Open Era, trailing only:

1. Laver’s CYGS + 35 top-10 wins
2. Mac’s absolutely insane 1984 season.

I now recognize(and don’t care one bit) that players like Sinner and Alcaraz might push my two favorites out of the top-5 and top-10 one day. Now granted, they have a long ways to go. But if it happens, I won’t be upset. I don’t follow a player solely to hope that he ends up as the GOAT, or top-3, etc. Now granted, he has to be good. And his style must be entertaining(beauty is in the eye of the beholder ). Some people like cyborgs/Terminators(Lendl, Djokovic, and Sinner). I like artists(McEnroe, Federer, Alcaraz). The damn Terminators have won the first 2 editions. Carlos, can you please win this edition?

I don’t need Alcaraz to break any records. But I would be happy if he could somehow end up with 14-15 slam titles for his career. That would be amazing. But if that doesn’t happen, then that’s fine. I think that he’s the most exciting player that I’ve ever seen. And that’s saying a lot.