Who has a forehand similar in style (look wise) to Federer's but has a strong semiwestern or western grip?

zill

Professional
#1
It is said Verdesco has a similar forehand style to Federer's and he has a mild semi western grip. But who has a similar style to Federer's but has a strong semi western or western grip?

So who has a clay court version of the Federer forehand??

Is Djokovic’s forehand a candidate?
 
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Enga

Hall of Fame
#11
Aside from grips, people often distinguish between two types of elbow positions.... straight arm and bent arm. Djokovic has a bent arm on the forehand. Nadal and Federer have a straight arm. Straight arm style seems to be a bit more rare on the tour.
 
#13
FAA resembles Fed kind of, but not even that much. Actually I can't even think of someone else with a fh like fed, let alone with a SW grip
 
#14
A western grip forces you to align your joint completely differently than an eastern grip, and thus results in a different swing path and different contact point. Therefore, you won't really find people with western forehands that are significantly similar to Fed. The big difference in grip results in a totally different stroke. The only one I can think of that is sorta similar in certain aspects is Nishikori, mostly because of their preparation and the compactness of their strokes. How their arm looks during the acceleration phase of the stroke through contact obviously differs.

You will find some semi-western guys who hit straight-arm forehands with sorta similar swings. Nadal and Verdasco have some similarities, even if they have a bit more loopy swings and go more for spin. Rublev is pretty similar to Fed in the aspects that matter most. The most similar guy with a semi-western grip has gotta be Tsitsipas. Dimitrov is obviously very similar in his form, but then they also pretty much share the same grip AFAIK.
 
#28
Dimi yes, Tpas hits straight up semi western.
You are absolutely incorrect. It is very obvious just from his strokes. But just for you:

"Generally when you have a classic Eastern forehand grip like Stefanos, his motion is closer to Del Potro, his grip is close to Del Potro. Del Potro also has a massive forehand, so it helps him because it’s a much cleaner stroke,”

That is his dad, also his coach.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/tsitsipas-milan-2018-forehand-feature-atp

Very surprised you think it is semi-western. It is not even close. Stef has even mentioned this plenty of times himself.
 
#30
You are absolutely incorrect. It is very obvious just from his strokes. But just for you:

"Generally when you have a classic Eastern forehand grip like Stefanos, his motion is closer to Del Potro, his grip is close to Del Potro. Del Potro also has a massive forehand, so it helps him because it’s a much cleaner stroke,”

That is his dad, also his coach.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/tsitsipas-milan-2018-forehand-feature-atp

Very surprised you think it is semi-western. It is not even close. Stef has even mentioned this plenty of times himself.
Tsitsipas has a very classic eastern grip, dude. I remember even Fed mentioned it in his presser after his loss to him.
His palm is visibly further down on his grip than Del Potro's is...

Index knuckle visibly on bevel 4.



Index knuckle on bevel 3.



Let's see Stefanos again, again from an angle where we can see his index knuckle. Again his index knuckle is clearly on bevel 4 for anyone who's not blind. That's the definition of a semi-western grip. Don't be duped by the straight hand classic motion, the grip is nevertheless the definition of SW.



best you can argue is weak semi-western.
 
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#31
His palm is visibly further down on his grip than Del Potro's is...

Index knuckle visibly on bevel 4.



Index knuckle on bevel 3.



Let's see Stefanos again from an angle where we can see his index knuckle. Again his index knuckle is clearly on bevel 4 for anyone who's not blind. That's the definition of a semi-western grip. Don't be duped by the straight hand classic motion, the grip is nevertheless the definition of SW.



best you can argue is weak semi-western.
Right. You clearly know more than his coach, his opponents who have played him and himself. I swear, only on TTW. By the way, all pics posted above show a strong eastern. Best educate yourself instead of digging a deeper hole. It is about index knuckle and heel pad and he clearly has a very classic eastern. Cheers.
 
#32
His palm is visibly further down on his grip than Del Potro's is...

Index knuckle visibly on bevel 4.



Index knuckle on bevel 3.



Let's see Stefanos again, again from an angle where we can see his index knuckle. Again his index knuckle is clearly on bevel 4 for anyone who's not blind. That's the definition of a semi-western grip. Don't be duped by the straight hand classic motion, the grip is nevertheless the definition of SW.



best you can argue is weak semi-western.
lol it isn't a semi western... Look at his palm, his index knuckle and the open racquet face. Dead giveaway.. swingpath changes for a SW grip too and racquet face is never that open because of wrist pronation..do a bit of research and you'll come across various articles as well.
 
#33
Right. You clearly know more than his coach, his opponents who have played him and himself. By the way, all pics posted above show a strong eastern. Best educate yourself. It is about knuckle and heel pad. Cheers.
lol it isn't a semi western... Look at his palm, his index knuckle and the open racquet face. Dead giveaway.. swingpath changes for a SW grip too and racquet face is never that open because of wrist pronation..do a bit of research and you'll come across various articles as well.
jesus christ this is so classic TTW in a nutshell, impossible for people to back down on their belief, even when presented with clear visual evidence. "b..b..but his coach said." Don't care, look at the pictures.

Let's do it slowly, with simple brief sentences.

This is an eastern grip. Fed's index knuckle is right on the middle of bevel 3. That's a textbook eastern forehand.



Here is Stefanos again. To help you along, I dotted his index knuckle in red. Hopefully you can see where it's positioned, but by this point I am not too hopeful, so I will spell it out: It's smack on the middle of bevel 4. What does this tell us? Stefanos clearly does not hit with the same grip as Fed or Delpo, his palm is rotated visibly further down to the point that his index knuckle is on a different bevel.



NOT THE SAME GRIP

the idea that you cannot conceivably have an open racquet face with a semi-western is also pretty wild

 
#34
LOL you are an anonymous poster on TTW arguing that you know more than his dad who coached him since he was 3 years old and who built his game. Jesus Christ stop embarrassing yourself. If his coach's words are not going to set you straight, nothing will. Just stop wasting everyones time.

And read the damn article and see some of his videos of his recent hitting videos.
jesus christ this is so classic TTW in a nutshell, impossible for people to back down on their belief, even when presented with clear visual evidence. "b..b..but his coach said." Don't care, look at the pictures.

Let's do it slowly, with simple brief sentences.

This is an eastern grip. Fed's index knuckle is right on the middle of bevel 3. That's a textbook eastern forehand.



Here is Stefanos again. To help you along, I dotted his index knuckle in red. Hopefully you can see where it's positioned, but by this point I am not too hopeful, so I will spell it out: It's smack on the middle of bevel 4. What does this tell us? Stefanos clearly does not hit with the same grip as Fed or Delpo, his palm is rotated visibly further down to the point that his index knuckle is on a different bevel.



NOT THE SAME GRIP

the idea that you cannot conceivably have an open racquet face with a semi-western is also pretty wild

 
#35
LOL you are an anonymous poster on TTW arguing that you know more than his dad who coached him since he was 3 years old and who built his game. Jesus Christ stop embarrassing yourself. If his coach's words are not going to set you straight, nothing will. Just stop wasting everyones time.

And read the damn article and see some of his videos of his recent hitting videos.
Easy question: look at the pictures above – Tsitsipas and Fed's index knuckles in the same spot?

The greatest player of all time admits he has no clue what his backhand grip is called. But sure, if you want to treat these pros' words as infallible information even in cases where it clearly goes against the visual evidence, do go ahead.
 
#36
jesus christ this is so classic TTW in a nutshell, impossible for people to back down on their belief, even when presented with clear visual evidence. "b..b..but his coach said." Don't care, look at the pictures.

Let's do it slowly, with simple brief sentences.

This is an eastern grip. Fed's index knuckle is right on the middle of bevel 3. That's a textbook eastern forehand.

As I said above, educate yourself. Federer has what is called an extreme eastern grip. It is a hybrid of classic eastern and semi-western and NOT a textbook eastern. A more accurate classic eastern grip example would be Bautista Agut and Juan Martin Delpotro. Hope that helps. Would recommend you research this a bit more too but have a feeling that isn't going to happen either.

I am out. Have a great day.
 
#37
As I said above, educate yourself. Federer has what is called an extreme eastern grip. It is a hybrid of classic eastern and semi-western and NOT a textbook eastern. A more accurate classic eastern grip example would be Bautista Agut and Juan Martin Delpotro. Hope that helps. Would recommend you research this a bit more too but have a feeling that isn't going to happen either.

I am out. Have a great day.
You're now changing the goal posts and arguing for something I haven't even denied.

Do you deny that Tsitsipas' index knuckle is not on the same bevel as Fed's (whose knuckle is at bevel 3, consistent with eastern)?
 
#38
As I said above, educate yourself. Federer has what is called an extreme eastern grip. It is a hybrid of classic eastern and semi-western and NOT a textbook eastern. A more accurate classic eastern grip example would be Bautista Agut and Juan Martin Delpotro. Hope that helps. Would recommend you research this a bit more too but have a feeling that isn't going to happen either.

I am out. Have a great day.
He has been corrected by several people, even shown a link to where he himself and his coach have clearly specified, but like a typical ttw GPPD section poster he will not understand and not accept because of ego or whatever. Best to move on.
 
#39
He has been corrected by several people, even shown a link to where he himself and his coach have clearly specified, but like a typical ttw GPPD section poster he will not understand and not accept because of ego or whatever. Best to move on.
Yet I'm the only one capable of actually making my case with picture evidence, LOL

all I'm getting in return is "but his dad said."

Show me a picture (preferably several, as I have posted two already) that unequivocally shows Stefanos index knuckle is clearly near the middle of bevel three, and I will happily concede.
 
#40
You're now changing the goal posts and arguing for something I haven't even denied.
No, not changing any posts. Simply calling you out in your last post where you were clearly wrong. You said Fed has a textbook eastern. He does not.

But like I said, if Stef's word and his coaches word, and videos/stills of him hitting aren't enough proof for you, I am afraid my word will hold no water. And that is fine. It is a tennis forum after all.

Have a great day.
 
#41
No, not changing any posts. Simply calling you out in your last post where you were clearly wrong. You said Fed has a textbook eastern. He does not.

But like I said, if Stef's word and his coaches word, and videos/stills of him hitting aren't enough proof for you, I am afraid my word will hold no water. And that is fine. It is a tennis forum after all.

Have a great day.

What stills?

Show me high-quality stills that demonstrate his knuckle clearly on bevel 3 and I happily concede.

So far only I have provided this.
 
#42
Yet I'm the only one capable of actually making my case with picture evidence, LOL

all I'm getting in return is "but his dad said."

Show me a picture (preferably several, as I have posted two already) that unequivocally shows Stefanos index knuckle is clearly near the middle of bevel three, and I will happily concede.
Either you don't know the difference between eastern and semi western or you are being thick on purpose here..


This is an eastern with a straight arm. Video is in slo mo as well. Look at his base knuckles and palm. See his setup, swing path and racquet face...
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
#44
jesus christ this is so classic TTW in a nutshell, impossible for people to back down on their belief, even when presented with clear visual evidence. "b..b..but his coach said." Don't care, look at the pictures.

Let's do it slowly, with simple brief sentences.

This is an eastern grip. Fed's index knuckle is right on the middle of bevel 3. That's a textbook eastern forehand.



Here is Stefanos again. To help you along, I dotted his index knuckle in red. Hopefully you can see where it's positioned, but by this point I am not too hopeful, so I will spell it out: It's smack on the middle of bevel 4. What does this tell us? Stefanos clearly does not hit with the same grip as Fed or Delpo, his palm is rotated visibly further down to the point that his index knuckle is on a different bevel.



NOT THE SAME GRIP

the idea that you cannot conceivably have an open racquet face with a semi-western is also pretty wild

Now I am getting to the hypothesis you can't hit left handed with straight face
 
#45
Yet I'm the only one capable of actually making my case with picture evidence, LOL

all I'm getting in return is "but his dad said."

Show me a picture (preferably several, as I have posted two already) that unequivocally shows Stefanos index knuckle is clearly near the middle of bevel three, and I will happily concede.
lol all that you provided basically was proof that you have too much free time on your hands. And even the pics you showed don't clearly show his base knuckles on 4. Base knuckle is where finger joins palm. Both your pics don't show what you are trying to claim. Anyway, I am not going to spoon feed you. Besides, if Tsitsipas's own coach's words and his own words and his opponents words and commentators words (James Blake and others on TC) aren't enough, damn why do I get this feeling mine won't be enough either?
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
#46
Yet I'm the only one capable of actually making my case with picture evidence, LOL

all I'm getting in return is "but his dad said."

Show me a picture (preferably several, as I have posted two already) that unequivocally shows Stefanos index knuckle is clearly near the middle of bevel three, and I will happily concede.
Some coach recently told me he was right cause he was a coach.

Since then I suffer from decreased respect for coaches to be honest, but it seems an exercise in futility to fight a hivemind on this.
 
#47
What stills?

Show me high-quality stills that demonstrate his knuckle clearly on bevel 3 and I happily concede.

So far only I have provided this.
It is the index base knuckle and heel pad which matters. I am sure you can easily YouTube yourself. It is not just because his coach and other players said so. It is because he really does use a conservative grip. If I had time to sit and collect pictures and post here, I would. Unfortunately work beckons. Feel free to disagree. Life is too short for arguing over things. Cheers.
 
#48
It is the index base knuckle and heel pad which matters. I am sure you can easily YouTube yourself. It is not just because his coach and other players said so. It is because he really does use a conservative grip. If I had time to sit and collect pictures and post here, I would. Unfortunately work beckons. Feel free to disagree. Life is too short for arguing over things. Cheers.
Fair enough
 

Enga

Hall of Fame
#49
This is probably why pros dont often join into the grip classification game during interviews. They probably argued it long enough in the locker room to know that theres a lot of different ways to define grip choices. Federer says he "doesnt know" what grip he uses. He knows of course. He just doesnt want to argue semantics.
 
#50
This is probably why pros dont often join into the grip classification game during interviews. They probably argued it long enough in the locker room to know that theres a lot of different ways to define grip choices. Federer says he "doesnt know" what grip he uses. He knows of course. He just doesnt want to argue semantics.
Well said.
 
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