That's good though. The best players today are better at baseline than in the past and the trend will keep going.
But keeping it for now.What you said is absolutely completely FALSE because a player simply "running around the backhand" to hit forehands does not mean that player is "worse" at baselining because a player who is more equal relatively on both forehand and backhand wings will have much less incentive to run around any wing but that does not mean at all that a player who does not run around any forehand and backhand automatically is superior at baselining because it completely depends on exactly HOW GOOD on an absolute level each forehand and backhand wing is because Gilles Simon was equally balanced when it came to his forehands and backhands and ran around his backhand and forehand a LOT LESS than Rafael Nadal BUT OBVIOUSLY rafael nadal still had a WAY MORE POTENT overall baseline game than gilles simon because the absolute levels of rafael nadal's forehand and backhand are WAY BETTER than either gilles simon's forehand or backhand. Rafael nadal runs around his backhand because his forehand is the GOAT forehand weapon not because rafael nadal's backhand is not good enough which does not prevent at all Rafael Nadal from having a stronger overall baseline game than novak djokovic who has a less potent forehand than rafael nadal.
A bunch of word soup, I would leave it here with you
That's good though. The best players today are better at baseline than in the past and the trend will keep going.
Kind of make me want to switch from Andre to Nole
Paragraphs are also GOAT.
Once again NO, you are completely wrong with your complete word soup and cannot counter anything that I have said because if Rafael Nadal is a better baseliner than Novak Djokovic as you just admitted than rafael nadal must have a better forehand and backhand combination than novak djokovic because you simply cannot just run around backhands in order to hit forehands if you have a weak backhand because any opponent can just start pummeling your backhand preventing you from running around anything.
I don't got TIME for paragraphs LOL!
Yes exactly, the mathematical objective fact that Rafael Nadal has 22 grand slam titles with FOURTEEN ROLAND GARROS TITLES along with SIX HARD COURT grand slam titles cannot be explained if Novak Djokovic somehow is a better overall baseliner than rafael nadal and thus, Rafael Nadal MUST BE THE GOAT of baselining with the best forehand and backhand combination EVER!
In what parallel universe can Djokovic and Nadal's careers at the US Open be considered equivalent when, with 4 triumphs each, Djokovic has reached the final 10 times, or twice as many times as Nadal?
I like how you joined the forum with a clear-cut gimmick and got to WORK
I see you bestie 
Once again NO, you are completely WRONG and are conveniently ignoring that Rafael Nadal the GOAT of baselining has a dominant head-to-head against novak djokovic at the US open so when it comes to the US open, both rafael nadal and novak djokovic are PRETTY DARN CLOSE in ability. I don't need "heart-shaped glasses" at all in order to mathematically and objectively realize that although Novak Djokovic is the overall GOAT, Rafael Nadal with his FOURTEEN ROLAND GARROS TITLES is the GOAT of baselining which is a FACT that you all have NO CHOICE but to ACCEPT!
Grammar Devolution
LOL that's right, DEAL with it!Grammar Devolution
That in the comparison between Djokovic and Nadal the US Open is the slam where the greatest balance reigns between the two is not in doubt, the point is that the comparison is not equal as you allude to, but is favorable to Djokovic, being down 2-1 in the h2h certainly has no more relevance than a historical performance clearly favorable to the Serbian tennis player.
What are you raving about?I like how you joined the forum with a clear-cut gimmick and got to WORK
Once again NO, you are COMPLETELY WRONG, cannot counter anything that I say, and are completely erroneously conveniently ignoring the statistics and results that ACTUALLY MATTER which are Rafael Nadal's FOURTEEN ROLAND GARROS TITLES along with his SIX HARD COURT grand slam titles. You cannot ever counter the fact that clay is the most baseline-dependent surface and simply ignoring that fact is completely dishonest. Grass and hard courts are obviously much more serve-dependent compared to clay and you would know this if you played any competitive tennis. The same serve that would give you an ace or forced error on a hard court comes back returned on a clay court forcing you to utilize your BASELINE CAPABILITIES in order to end the point so players who are most baseline-proficient excel on clay since you never ever see serve-dominant players win Roland Garros ever. You completely ignore the fact that both rafael nadal and novak djokovic have the EXACT SAME amount of US open titles so claiming that novak djokovic is "outright" better at the US open is COMPLETELY WRONG no matter how many statisitics that you attempt to cherry-pick in order to favor novak djokovic along with once again conveniently ignoring the LOSING head-to-head of novak djokovic to rafael nadal at the US open. Honestly, it is just easier for you and everyone else to completely admit that you are JUST WRONG. If we just look at the amount of hard court grand slam titles and clay grand slam titles that both rafael nadal and novak djokovic have since clay and hard court are the most baseline centric surfaces, it is a mathematical objective fact that novak djokovic has only 17 combined grand slam titles on clay and hard whereas rafael nadal has 20 combined grand slam titles on clay and hard which further proves that rafael nadal who clearly relies on his baseline capabilities much more than novak djokovic in order to win also has had much more grand slam success than novak djokovic with his baseline capabilties when grand slam performance on CLAY AND HARD are COMBINED which thus mathematically and objectively means that Rafael Nadal is the GOAT of baselining, CASE CLOSED!
Nothing you don't get to explain beyond the simplistic why Nadal should be considered a better baseline player than Djokovic.
Chill bro
LOLOL once again, you are completely wrong and completely delusional and you have ABSOLUTELY NO COUNTERS to anything that I have said as always expected since the greatest statistical determiner of success as a professional tennis player is always FIRST through the number of grand slam titles won which is not "simplistic" because in the world of tennis, the GRAND SLAM COUNT TRUMPS ALL. The vast majority of people are completely delusional and completely irrational and only think with emotions so the results of your little completely nonsensical "poll" that includes "short and slow" andre agassi of all freaking people CANNOT EVER counter the fact that Rafael Nadal is the GOAT of baselining which does not take a genius to figure out. Rafael Nadal has won TWENTY grand slam titles on clay and hard court surfaces COMBINED compared to only seventeen grand slam titles on clay and hard court surfaces combined for novak djokovic which is a difference of THREE grand slam titles between rafael nadal and novak djokovic which indisputably demonstrates that Rafael Nadal has had significantly more grand slam success on the baseline-oriented surfaces of clay and hard than novak djokovic himself which indisputably proves that Rafael Nadal is the GOAT of baselining and there is NOT A SINGLE DANG THING that you and anyone else can do about that FACT!
Ok I definitely take note that you are totally incompetent and for this reason you are unable to go beyond the simplistic.
I do not need to chill because I AM CHILL.
LOLOL once again JUST FACE IT buddy, you are COMPLETELY WRONG AS ALWAYS, are COMPLETELY BORING to argue with with your completely argumentless repetitious ZERO CREDIBILITY nonsense along with your fetish-like obssessions with little old jannik sinner, and are completely beyond totally incompetent with absolutely no counters to anything that I have said and with absolutely no reasoning or data of your own other than the completely BS nonsense of "buh buh buh I think so because I think so" because you CANNOT EVER refute THE MATHEMATICAL STATISTICAL OBJECTIVE fact that Rafael Nadal has MORE GRAND SLAM TITLES than novak djokovic on the baseline-oriented surfaces of clay court along with even hard court combined and "returning" is only a very small part of actual baseline play which along with your completely irrelevant nonsensical litle "poll" CANNOT EVER refute the actual GRAND SLAM RESULTS of Rafael Nadal when it comes to the baseline-oriented surfaces of clay court along with even hard court. Grass court is NOT a baseline-oriented surface at all even with the "slowing down" of the grass courts since serve-dominant players ALWAYS have an additional advantage on grass courts compared to both hard courts and clay courts and the fact that even when you include the grand slam titles from technically NEUTRAL SURFACES like hard court along with a truly baseline-oriented surface like clay where Rafael Nadal STILL HAS MORE combined grand slam titles than novak djokovic clearly INDISPUTBLY PROVES that Rafael Nadal is the GOAT of baselining because you cannot possibly win 22 grand slam titles along with FOURTEEN ROLAND GARROS TITLES without having some edge against your main rivals DUH! THAT'S FREAKING RIGHT BUDDY, Rafael Nadal is the GOAT of baselining, CASE CLOSED!
Agassi got so much value for his terrific shotmaking on those lightning fast 80s/90s/2000s hardcourts. It’s fantastic to watch them back now as it is such an entertaining playing style and he can take the ball so early. It’s a real feat of timing.
His body would have broken down if he had to play in Rafole era on HC though. How much harder you have to hit to totally dominate these two on slow HC would be insane.
I’m also interested in the direction he would have gone with equipment. He was a very early adopter of larger head sizes so no problem there, but not entirely sure the direction he would have gone with ultra stiff and unforgiving racquet materials and polyester string composition, particularly with his lower arm issues.
Watching Djokovic 2011 matches now and its insane how stiff ALL guys used to string their racket. He used 18x20 and is literally ballbashing.
www.tennisnerd.net
But HE writes in CAPS which must mean he's RIGHT. EVERYBODY knows that.
And for the umpteenth time you have not reported the data I asked you to demonstrate that on clay Nadal's serve-return combination is inferior to Djokovic's.
There is NO WAY Rafael Nadal wins 22 grand slams if Novak djokovic has both a better serve and baseline play than rafael nadal like COME ON!
Forgot about Safin. It would be Safin when he's focused. In his era, Agassi was widely agreed to have the best combo of bh/fh but I've seen a match (can't remember which one) where Safin completely overpowered Agassi on both sides.
LOL, whether you like it or not, the TRUTH will be EMPHASIZED!
I agree. Djokovic is just very good at everything but other than his BH, he's not really top 5 (stroke wise) in his era at anything. There are 5-10 guys with bigger forehands than him, but he's gotten much more accurate and powerful later in his career. He may be the greatest player ever because he had top 10 strokes all around AND was the fastest, most flexible player with the best returns.
You're right, wimbledon is not the home of servebots, even back in the 90s. But it does reward fast attacking tennis (which includes serving big). Edberg was not a servebot but he played attacking tennis and managed a few Wimbledons. Roddick had his best year barely losing to Fed when he finally went for his shots and played aggressive. And this past year, once Alcaraz got a bit more experienced on grass, he crushed Djokovic. Djokovic's style of getting lots of returns back and playing high percentage pressure shots was well short of enough.
On paper, Nadal is not in the conversation. His forehand could be overpowered and his backhand mostly only went crosscourt. But watching him is a whole different matter. Like Djokovic, you couldn't hit anything past him but he was much better than Djokovic for most of their careers at playing aggressive and taking over a rally once he's given the chance. For this first half of Djokovic's career, he'd waste 1/3 of short balls by hitting them back up the middle and continuing a rally. If you hit a short ball against Nadal, it was over. He'd drag the opponent around like a rag doll
LOLOL for the ZILLIONTH TIME, you are COMPLETELY WRONG as always with your completely BS nonsensical assertions because I already COMPLETELY DEBUNKED your completely argumentless irrelevant assertion about rafael nadal's serve/return statistics on clay being worse than novak djokovic's by stating to you that the return is LITERALLY ONLY ONE SHOT in an entire baseline rally so just because rafael nadal's return may be worse than novak djokovic's DOES NOT MEAN AT ALL that rafael nadal is worse at the ENTIRETY of baselining than novak djokovic. Also, I never stated that wimbledon is only won by "servebots" because I stated that grass courts ALWAYS ENHANCE way more the serve of tennis players compared to other surfaces especially clay courts where the serve is the most neutered and it is CLEAR that the serve of carlos alcaraz is WAY MORE ENHANCED on grass courts compared to on clay courts FREAKING DUH! No matter how much your completely argumentless brain is in FETISH-OBSSESSED LOVE with little old jannik sinner, you CAN NEVER EVER argue against the GRAND SLAM RESULTS of Rafael Nadal that completely PROVE that Rafael Nadal with his FOURTEEN ROLAND GARROS TITLES is the GOAT of baselining, CASE CLOSED!!
You're short-circuiting now.
