Who has the greatest forehand in tennis history?

[Bender]

Hard call for careers, as late as 2017 I would say Federer's forehand looked the better shot for HC/grass. On aggregate maybe you could say Nadal's better overall because it was just that good on clay. Federer's forehand seemed to decline pretty heavily with his movement in a way that Nadal's didn't. What are your thoughts on that?

2017 was the year I really thought Federer’s forehand was back. I thought it really wasn’t that great in many of the years prior (between 2011 and 2017).

Re your second question, the first part of that is the obvious observation that Nadal became more aggressive with the forehand (I’d argue from 2012 and onwards), whereas Federer chose to make it more and more compact from 2007 onward.

With Nadal there was arguably too much margin for error so he could attack with it a lot more without substantially affecting his error rate. Fed meanwhile was already aggressive with his, so increasing his aggression wouldn’t have worked. It seems he opted to increase his margins whilst taking the ball earlier to counter the loss in pace. I think his forehand actually aged naturally so it’s not a criticism or even reasonable to expect Federer to retain his 2004-2006 forehand for his entire career.

I think the bigger factor to me is that Nadal left so much potential in his forehand on the table for much of his career that his post 2016 improvements look like they are unaffected by his dramatic loss in foot speed from 2012 onwards. The amount of power he possesses at the very end of his range and how easily he can do it is what I think is masking his loss in foot speed, and allows him to be more aggressive in the first place. Pretty much everyone else, Federer included, loses a lot of explosiveness whilst trying to reach for a ball.

 

[NatF]

2017 was the year I really thought Federer’s forehand was back. I thought it really wasn’t that great in many of the years prior (between 2011 and 2017).

Re your second question, the first part of that is the obvious observation that Nadal became more aggressive with the forehand (I’d argue from 2012 and onwards), whereas Federer chose to make it more and more compact from 2007 onward.

With Nadal there was arguably too much margin for error so he could attack with it a lot more without substantially affecting his error rate. Fed meanwhile was already aggressive with his, so increasing his aggression wouldn’t have worked. It seems he opted to increase his margins whilst taking the ball earlier to counter the loss in pace. I think his forehand actually aged naturally so it’s not a criticism or even reasonable to expect Federer to retain his 2004-2006 forehand for his entire career.

I think the bigger factor to me is that Nadal left so much potential in his forehand on the table for much of his career that his post 2016 improvements look like they are unaffected by his dramatic loss in foot speed from 2012 onwards. The amount of power he possesses at the very end of his range and how easily he can do it is what I think is masking his loss in foot speed, and allows him to be more aggressive in the first place. Pretty much everyone else, Federer included, loses a lot of explosiveness whilst trying to reach for a ball.

Fair enough, I would say Nadal had some middling forehand years as well - 2015-2016, the later half of 2009/2014 etc...

Yeah Nadal's defence to offence and that ability to shotmake at the end of his range is second to absolutely no one.

On a year by year basis Nadal on left, Fed on right:

2005 vs 2000
2006 vs 2001
2007 vs 2002
2008 vs 2003
2009 vs 2004
2010 vs 2005
2011 vs 2006
2012 vs 2007
2013 vs 2008
2014 vs 2009
2015 vs 2010
2016 vs 2011
2017 vs 2012
2018 vs 2013
2019 vs 2014
2020 vs 2015
2021 vs 2016
2022 vs 2017
2023 vs 2018
2024 vs 2019

Nadal: 8
Federer: 10

I have Fed ahead 10-7, on the age by age comparison. But some are close and the early teen vs teen ones are a landslide for Nadal. I do think 2019'erer will be stronger than 2024'dal though. I also think 2020 could go to Nadal, though I think Federer's summer form was pretty good off the fh wing so I put a tie.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Fair enough, I would say Nadal had some middling forehand years as well - 2015-2016, the later half of 2009/2014 etc...

Yeah Nadal's defence to offence and that ability to shotmake at the end of his range is second to absolutely no one.

On a year by year basis Nadal on left, Fed on right:

2005 vs 2000
2006 vs 2001
2007 vs 2002
2008 vs 2003
2009 vs 2004
2010 vs 2005
2011 vs 2006
2012 vs 2007
2013 vs 2008
2014 vs 2009
2015 vs 2010
2016 vs 2011
2017 vs 2012
2018 vs 2013
2019 vs 2014
2020 vs 2015
2021 vs 2016
2022 vs 2017
2023 vs 2018
2024 vs 2019

Nadal: 8
Federer: 10

I have Fed ahead 10-7, on the age by age comparison. But some are close and the early teen vs teen ones are a landslide for Nadal. I do think 2019'erer will be stronger than 2024'dal though. I also think 2020 could go to Nadal, though I think Federer's summer form was pretty good off the fh wing so I put a tie.

2023 Nadal

You mean the 4 matches he played that year? None of these comparisons make sense to me

 

[NatF]

2023 Nadal

You mean the 4 matches he played that year? None of these comparisons make sense to me

Well Fed barely played in 2016 and I gave it to Nadal. It's just a rough by age comparison.

 

[Phenomenal]

Fair enough, I would say Nadal had some middling forehand years as well - 2015-2016, the later half of 2009/2014 etc...

Yeah Nadal's defence to offence and that ability to shotmake at the end of his range is second to absolutely no one.

On a year by year basis Nadal on left, Fed on right:

2005 vs 2000
2006 vs 2001
2007 vs 2002
2008 vs 2003
2009 vs 2004
2010 vs 2005
2011 vs 2006
2012 vs 2007
2013 vs 2008
2014 vs 2009
2015 vs 2010
2016 vs 2011
2017 vs 2012
2018 vs 2013
2019 vs 2014
2020 vs 2015
2021 vs 2016
2022 vs 2017
2023 vs 2018
2024 vs 2019

Nadal: 8
Federer: 10

I have Fed ahead 10-7, on the age by age comparison. But some are close and the early teen vs teen ones are a landslide for Nadal. I do think 2019'erer will be stronger than 2024'dal though. I also think 2020 could go to Nadal, though I think Federer's summer form was pretty good off the fh wing so I put a tie.

Very controversial i would say for 2012-2007 and few others can go either way probably like 2010-2005.

 

[NatF]

Very controversial i would say for 2012-2007 and few others can go either way probably.

I said some were close. Nadal's fh was fire in 2012 on clay but I'm taking Federer's on HC (AO) and grass so I stand by that rating.

 

[Phenomenal]

I said some were close. Nadal's fh was fire in 2012 on clay but I'm taking Federer's on HC (AO) and grass so I stand by that rating.

Ok. I like 2007 Federer but his problem on clay was FH more than his BH that year.

 

[NatF]

Ok. I like 2007 Federer but his problem on clay was FH more than his BH that year.

His problem was Nadal lol. I'm taking 2007 Federer's forehand at the AO and Wimbledon. Nadal was indeed much better on the clay.

 

[Silentchimera]

Roger.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Honestly, Federer and Nadal both. No need to keep tugging the rope in both directions.

 

[The_Order]

Fair enough, I would say Nadal had some middling forehand years as well - 2015-2016, the later half of 2009/2014 etc...

Yeah Nadal's defence to offence and that ability to shotmake at the end of his range is second to absolutely no one.

On a year by year basis Nadal on left, Fed on right:

2005 vs 2000
2006 vs 2001
2007 vs 2002
2008 vs 2003
2009 vs 2004
2010 vs 2005
2011 vs 2006
2012 vs 2007
2013 vs 2008
2014 vs 2009
2015 vs 2010
2016 vs 2011
2017 vs 2012
2018 vs 2013
2019 vs 2014
2020 vs 2015
2021 vs 2016
2022 vs 2017
2023 vs 2018
2024 vs 2019

Nadal: 8
Federer: 10

I have Fed ahead 10-7, on the age by age comparison. But some are close and the early teen vs teen ones are a landslide for Nadal. I do think 2019'erer will be stronger than 2024'dal though. I also think 2020 could go to Nadal, though I think Federer's summer form was pretty good off the fh wing so I put a tie.

Don't forget these ones if you're going to include useless years like Nadal 2023 and Fed 2016 v Nadal 2021 where they both didn't play much

2003 vs 1998
2004 vs 1999

Just can't have it 10 all hey?

 

[McGradey]

Federer hitting his forehand, particularly from the backhand corner — pure mastery to behold. The way he walloped it so hard and accurately felt impossible. It seems impossible even now to hit the shot in a more visually appealing way.

Nadal’s is even more unique though. He can do things with that shot that are just fkn crazy. The spins and curve on the ball have not been seen before and may not be seen again.

Both forehands are way clear of the rest when it comes to eliciting various gasps, stupid noises and exclamations like ‘pssssh’, ‘wow’, ‘jeez’, ‘f***king hell’ etc, from onlookers. So they’re tied for me.

 

[weakera]

Nadal's never got worse

 

[MichaelNadal]

 

[adil1972]

3 months 17 days have passed, nadal / djok did not reach a single final in 2024. Only one SF showing in this time

 

[nolefam_2024]

3 months 17 days have passed, nadal / djok did not reach a single final in 2024. Only one SF showing in this time

Wrong


Don't get drowned in hate so much that you start spreading lies. 2 sf for Djokovic in 3 events.

It's not like he played 10 events.

Always be there to correct you Rafan.

 

[adil1972]

Wrong


Don't get drowned in hate so much that you start spreading lies. 2 sf for Djokovic in 3 events.

It's not like he played 10 events.

Always be there to correct you Rafan.

Sorry not a lie but mistake

Thnx 4 correction

 

[nolefam_2024]

Sorry not a lie but mistake

Thnx 4 correction

What is wrong with you recently ? Are you now a 100% Djokovic hater ?

 

[nolefam_2024]

This thread doesn't even belong to Djokovic. Nor do other threads where you spammed

 

[Bender]

Fair enough, I would say Nadal had some middling forehand years as well - 2015-2016, the later half of 2009/2014 etc...

Yeah Nadal's defence to offence and that ability to shotmake at the end of his range is second to absolutely no one.

On a year by year basis Nadal on left, Fed on right:

2005 vs 2000
2006 vs 2001
2007 vs 2002
2008 vs 2003
2009 vs 2004
2010 vs 2005
2011 vs 2006
2012 vs 2007
2013 vs 2008
2014 vs 2009
2015 vs 2010
2016 vs 2011
2017 vs 2012
2018 vs 2013
2019 vs 2014
2020 vs 2015
2021 vs 2016
2022 vs 2017
2023 vs 2018
2024 vs 2019

Nadal: 8
Federer: 10

I have Fed ahead 10-7, on the age by age comparison. But some are close and the early teen vs teen ones are a landslide for Nadal. I do think 2019'erer will be stronger than 2024'dal though. I also think 2020 could go to Nadal, though I think Federer's summer form was pretty good off the fh wing so I put a tie.

I wouldn't compare them year to year to be honest

I'd rather think in terms of which years their forehands were considered generally "on" vs which years they were generally "off"

Nadal 2005-2008, 2010-2014, 2017-2022 = 15 years
Federer 2003-2012, 2017-2019 = 13 years

 

[BeatlesFan]

Ok. I like 2007 Federer but his problem on clay was FH more than his BH that year.

He did beat Rafa on clay in the Hamburg final (hopefully nobody uses the lame "Rafa was tired!" excuse). His issue in the 2007 FO final was that he was a pathetic 1/17 on BP's, most of those going to his BH.

 

[abmk]

thoughts on Borg and Lendl's forehands wrt Connors matchup?

Connors seems to have done better vs Lendl fh wing/side, no?
probably preferred that flatter fh to his bh than borg's heavier one. also Borg's movement makes it tougher vs him

 

[abmk]

I wouldn't compare them year to year to be honest

I'd rather think in terms of which years their forehands were considered generally "on" vs which years they were generally "off"

Nadal 2005-2008, 2010-2014, 2017-2022 = 15 years
Federer 2003-2012, 2017-2019 = 13 years

if we are including 21-22 for nadal, should include 14-15 for fed.

I mean any person with attacking FH would have crushed Nadal in AO 22 final. tpas obviously took adv of him tiring in AO 21 and fh going down. 21. done after RG in 21. not particularly great at RG vs djoko.

nadal 09 fh should be included. it was fantastic in 1st half of the year, even if it declined in 2nd half.
no way is his 21-22 fh even close to 09 fh.

will also point out that 2020 was like half-year (more so for nadal)
and again 12,14 - nadal was absent after Wimbledon. (close to half, half year)

 

[Kralingen]

Based on what I saw earlier today, Arthur Fils.

 

[Phenomenal]

I wonder did people closely watched players like Gonzalez to add him as a candidate here. Because he didn't achieve anything to be considered here.
Was his forehand great and all other parts of his game bad? I remember against Nadal he turn into error machine many times.

For Delpo atleast he won a slam and has much more achievements also he had devastating injuries. I don't think he is one of the best but can be mentioned.
Other than this i agree that equipment, tech changed so bit unlucky for early Legends. Borg, Lendl, Sampras Agassi deserve to be in conversation aswell. Not easy to compare those.

 

[Phenomenal]

Another thing i think is not clear that how much consistency is needed? Do you take 1 year 3, 5 or more than 10? Is minimum 5 year having great FH. To have better discussion.

If it is 1-2 year i can say Thiem has great one of the best FH aswell. In 2019-2020. So should have longer period i think.

 

[RS]

Based on what I saw earlier today, Arthur Fils.

George Foreman

 

[Phenomenal]

Federer.

Nadal at least had a great backhand. So he could afford to be more balanced. As we all know, the less said about Fed’s backhand, the better… so that should put into perspective just how GOAT his forehand was.

Federer always has Serve though. Nadal won 22 slams mainly with his Forehand, which was great always at slams, and with his defensive skills.

He did beat Rafa on clay in the Hamburg final (hopefully nobody uses the lame "Rafa was tired!" excuse). His issue in the 2007 FO final was that he was a pathetic 1/17 on BP's, most of those going to his BH.

MC 2007 and in RG final Federer has many errors from FH side. Federer can win against any Nadal at Hamburg/Madrid Nadal always has much lower level there compared to other clay tournaments.

 

[RS]

Who played at a higher level?

1. Djokovic AO 19 final or Hewitt USO 01 final
2. Federer Wim 14 final or Roddick AO 03 QF
3. Federer RG 07 final or Djokovic RG 11 SF
4. Djokovic RG 11 SF or Hewitt AO 05 SF
5. Murray Wim 12 final or Nadal RG 19 final

 

[Phenomenal]

Federer's FH is just beautiful when it's on. Great mix of power spin and precision as everyone knows. It's great everywhere and more versatil than Nadal's.

It's true that Nadal has weakness sometimes he drops short but he has the most consistent FH(gets overlooked) he rarely hits the net.
Due to his agressive style Federer sometimes do way more FH errors. But nobody is near to Fed's FH with his playing attacking style, that means nobody is as consistent as him with his style.

Forehand is both Nadal and Federer's signature shot that can safely be said.

 

[Kralingen]

Who played at a higher level?

1. Djokovic AO 19 final or Hewitt USO 01 final
2. Federer Wim 14 final or Roddick AO 03 QF
3. Federer RG 07 final or Djokovic RG 11 SF
4. Djokovic RG 11 SF or Hewitt AO 05 SF
5. Murray Wim 12 final or Nadal RG 19 final

Absolute level all the later ones relative level all the earlier ones

 

[Ray Mercer]

Come on man you should be banned for even asking, it’s Federer.

 

[mike danny]

Who played at a higher level?

1. Djokovic AO 19 final or Hewitt USO 01 final
2. Federer Wim 14 final or Roddick AO 03 QF
3. Federer RG 07 final or Djokovic RG 11 SF
4. Djokovic RG 11 SF or Hewitt AO 05 SF
5. Murray Wim 12 final or Nadal RG 19 final

Still can’t get over AO 2003 QF, can you?

 

[TheSlicer]

Parera

 

[RS]

Absolute level all the later ones relative level all the earlier ones

Interesting.

 

[Angrybirdstar]

Connors seems to have done better vs Lendl fh wing/side, no?
probably preferred that flatter fh to his bh than borg's heavier one. also Borg's movement makes it tougher vs him

yeah that was my impression, so i was curious if the gap between Lendl & Borg in your list was due to your judging Lendl as having an advantage in DTL/I-O/I-I corridors and that outweighing Borg's advantage CC, or some other thought process. one route i was considering is that i would argue that Borg had a advantage in neutral consistency (zone 3), denying forced and unforced errors with gets (accounting for movement gap), and defensive shotmaking (zones 1 and 2), while Lendl had an advantage in error forcing aggression and offensive shotmaking (zones 4 and 5). meanwhile i would say Nadal would be closer to Lendl in those latter two zones and perhaps overtaking him for offensive shotmaking, along with having Borg's advantages.

 

[RS]

Absolute level all the later ones relative level all the earlier ones

Just to be clear do you actually think this?

 

[GrandSlam24]

Steffi Graf

 

[Kralingen]

Just to be clear do you actually think this?

No not really. 2011 Djokovic > any Hewitt, and I refuse to give you that answer on 03 AO considering he got wrecked by Scheuttler immediately after.

 

[tennis_pro]

If all points were started from the ground Nadal's superiority would be so clear.

That's more to say about his speed and movement than his forehand itself.

 

[Bender]

if we are including 21-22 for nadal, should include 14-15 for fed.

I mean any person with attacking FH would have crushed Nadal in AO 22 final. tpas obviously took adv of him tiring in AO 21 and fh going down. 21. done after RG in 21. not particularly great at RG vs djoko.

nadal 09 fh should be included. it was fantastic in 1st half of the year, even if it declined in 2nd half.
no way is his 21-22 fh even close to 09 fh.

will also point out that 2020 was like half-year (more so for nadal)
and again 12,14 - nadal was absent after Wimbledon. (close to half, half year)

I didn’t include 14-15 for Federer because I felt his serve and more aggressive net game did a lot more of the heavy lifting.

I distinctly remember thinking his forehand had gotten a lot worse but I’m willing to give him those years.

I included 2012 but didn’t include 2009 for Nadal because I thought 2009 Nadal’s forehand was actually kind crappy and one of the reasons his pre-RG clay matches against Djokovic were as drawn out as they were.

 

[Beacon Hill]

Benoit Paire.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Whose forehand on HC is better?

Nadal's or Djokovic's?

 

[droliver]

Federer is probably the greatest across all surfaces. Just a devastating weapon with mechanics not really affected much by surface or court speed.

On medium to slow court speed it hard to not say Nadal’s wasn’t the most difficult to handle, particularly in the ad court.

Novak’s is significantly underrated as he consistently gets the most depth with most precision. Puts incredible pressure and forces a lot of error rather then hitting outright winners.

Del Potro, Gonzalez, Berdych, Moya, and Soderling are probably the others in the “best of class” over the last 25 yrs or so

Sampras on this list is absurd, as he was decidedly less consistent with his FH than the A listers. He was a BIG hitter but not someone that could bully people from the backcourt on a bad serving serving day.

 

[TennisManiac]

Fed

 

[GAS]

What about Djokovic? LOL... just kidding.

Nadal>Federer>Del Potro>Agassi>Lendl so I guess I'm going with Nadal

 

[nolefam_2024]

Federer is probably the greatest across all surfaces. Just a devastating weapon with mechanics not really affected much by surface or court speed.

On medium to slow court speed it hard to not say Nadal’s wasn’t the most difficult to handle, particularly in the ad court.

Novak’s is significantly underrated as he consistently gets the most depth with most precision. Puts incredible pressure and forces a lot of error rather then hitting outright winners.

Del Potro, Gonzalez, Berdych, Moya, and Soderling are probably the others in the “best of class” over the last 25 yrs or so

Sampras on this list is absurd, as he was decidedly less consistent with his FH than the A listers. He was a BIG hitter but not someone that could bully people from the backcourt on a bad serving serving day.

Sampras I have only seen few full matches. His forehand was a great weapon but I see no way to check if he could handle pressure. There was no need to rally during those days.
I can't take Sampras FH on this least as serious choice.

 

[MichaelNadal]

He did beat Rafa on clay in the Hamburg final (hopefully nobody uses the lame "Rafa was tired!" excuse). His issue in the 2007 FO final was that he was a pathetic 1/17 on BP's, most of those going to his BH.

That BP performance was wild

 

[Pheasant]

I don’t think that the running part should be part of the equation. Otherwise, Michael Chang could be on the list. Chang had a great running forehand, mainly because he was so damn fast.

 

[RS]

No not really. 2011 Djokovic > any Hewitt, and I refuse to give you that answer on 03 AO considering he got wrecked by Scheuttler immediately after.

You would have liked to see Agassi destroy him wouldn't you in AO 2003