Who is a better server Roddick or Kyriogs?

Who is a better server Roddick or Kyriogs?

  • Roddick

    Votes: 47 66.2%
  • Kyriogs

    Votes: 24 33.8%

  • Total voters
    71

zill

Hall of Fame
With regards to the serve in general in terms of overall effectiveness considering both the first and second serve.
 

mental midget

Hall of Fame
good question. roddick backed his up with a pretty solid game, so no doubt his numbers are higher. pure serving though...eh probably still roddick. day in, day out, just more consistent although nick does have an incredible delivery when he's on.
 

accidental

Hall of Fame
Fed said he never really had trouble with retuning Roddick’s serve though??
Federer was 34 years old the first time he and Kyrgios played each other, while Roddick and Federer had been playing against each other since they were both about age 20.

I think Federer’s reaction times were already in decline by then, and his return stats were already suffering across the board

Fed has also managed to win every match against him since so he can’t have that much trouble with it
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
Roddick. However, I rate Kyrgios' serve in this present time, as the best in the business.
 

Subway Tennis

Hall of Fame
Roddick's is better imo. Nick has brilliant disguise, though.

I always thought that Nick had a "smoother" action that required less explosive power to generate pace, but given his injury setbacks I'm not so sure now. Both actions might put a lot of wear and tear on the body.
 

Lew II

Legend
Aces
Kyrgios 17.94%
Roddick 15.52%

1st serve
Kyrgios 65.38%
Roddick 64.81%

Kyrgios probably has a better first serve. Roddick made more points with the second serve but he was also better than Kyrgios in the rally.

Djokovic and Murray recently picked Kyrgios as the most talented server.
 

Yoneyama

Hall of Fame
If Federer's returns are the measure by which we are judging each player, I think it is a bit unfair to compare a much younger Federer to how he is now. His return game is no where near as good anymore.
 

Lew II

Legend
I just found out that 5'7 tall Yoshito Nishioka is the 18th player with most points won on the second serve since data was collected (around 1991).

Nishioka 53.57%
Karlovic 53.32%
Anderson 53.03%
Kyrgios 53.03%
J. Johansson 52.87%

:oops:
 

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
I just found out that 5'7 tall Yoshito Nishioka is the 18th player with most points won on the second serve since data was collected (around 1991).

Nishioka 53.57%
Karlovic 53.32%
Anderson 53.03%
Kyrgios 53.03%
J. Johansson 52.87%

:oops:
Nishioka doesn't win a lot with the first serve though.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
I just found out that 5'7 tall Yoshito Nishioka is the 18th player with most points won on the second serve since data was collected (around 1991).

Nishioka 53.57%
Karlovic 53.32%
Anderson 53.03%
Kyrgios 53.03%
J. Johansson 52.87%

:oops:
Proof that this is a weak era since short people = inferior according to you right?
 

accidental

Hall of Fame
Kyrgios’ stats are a bit skewed because he doesn’t go deep at tournaments consistently

Roddick rarely exited tournaments early and was constantly going up against top 10/20 players his entire career
 

NonP

Hall of Fame
Kyrgios’ stats are a bit skewed because he doesn’t go deep at tournaments consistently

Roddick rarely exited tournaments early and was constantly going up against top 10/20 players his entire career
Exactly. A-Rod had a 37-73 career H2H against the top 10 while Nick's stands at 21-35, which means the Yank played double the # of matches against top opposition.

And it matters not only whom you play but where/when you play 'em, cuz unless your last name happens to be Sampras your hold % will drop more than a handful of pts in the later rounds of the majors against the best opposition before the largest crowd. As someone who's reached the QF only twice at any of the Slams Nick has yet to be tested like Andy was.

Kyrgios' serve is still plenty good, of course, and he's been among my borderline SHoF candidates for several years now. I just don't see him overtaking Roddick after all is said and done.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
When you get to the level that they're at there's not much separating top guys serves. They're both unbreakable players when their 1st serves are landing in at 135-140mph. It's really splitting hairs to try and compare those 2 shots.

The clear difference here is in their 2nd serves. Andy has a wayyyy better 2nd serve kicker so he doesn't have to risk double-faulting constantly like Nick does.
 

NonP

Hall of Fame
When you get to the level that they're at there's not much separating top guys serves. They're both unbreakable players when their 1st serves are landing in at 135-140mph. It's really splitting hairs to try and compare those 2 shots.

The clear difference here is in their 2nd serves. Andy has a wayyyy better 2nd serve kicker so he doesn't have to risk double-faulting constantly like Nick does.
Dat 2. 56.0% vs. 53.0%, which is a pretty sizable margin esp for 2nd-serve pts won.

But then Pete stands at a mere 52.6%, which even after accounting for the double counting of DFs would fall short of A-Rod's 56%. One would have to be a complete ignoramus to think that # is an accurate snapshot of Pistol's vaunted 2nd serve, which probably more than anything else makes him the greatest server of the Open Era, and quite possibly ever.
 
Dat 2. 56.0% vs. 53.0%, which is a pretty sizable margin esp for 2nd-serve pts won.

But then Pete stands at a mere 52.6%, which even after accounting for the double counting of DFs would fall short of A-Rod's 56%. One would have to be a complete ignoramus to think that # is an accurate snapshot of Pistol's vaunted 2nd serve, which probably more than anything else makes him the greatest server of the Open Era, and quite possibly ever.
Even accounting for increasing SPW %, Roddick's 2nd serve may well have been slightlt more effective than Pete's overall career-wise - doesn't seem strange at all. We know where Sampras truly shines is the ability to execute his serve, both first and second, as well or even better than usual against the topmost opponents. That's the PETE gear no one else has had on serve, other than Pancho if only we had stats to tell, oh well.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Dat 2. 56.0% vs. 53.0%, which is a pretty sizable margin esp for 2nd-serve pts won.

But then Pete stands at a mere 52.6%, which even after accounting for the double counting of DFs would fall short of A-Rod's 56%. One would have to be a complete ignoramus to think that # is an accurate snapshot of Pistol's vaunted 2nd serve, which probably more than anything else makes him the greatest server of the Open Era, and quite possibly ever.
Pete's lower percentage on second serves is probably influenced by how many times he approached behind it, don't think it was ever the percentage play even on grass.
 

NonP

Hall of Fame
Even accounting for increasing SPW %, Roddick's 2nd serve may well have been slightlt more effective than Pete's overall career-wise - doesn't seem strange at all. We know where Sampras truly shines is the ability to execute his serve, both first and second, as well or even better than usual against the topmost opponents. That's the PETE gear no one else has had on serve, other than Pancho if only we had stats to tell, oh well.
That's the extra gear I'm talking about. I still think Goran, Ivo and several other guys could be more dangerous on a given day, but who would you back in a Slam final against ATGs/GOATs where your nerves are running high and you need more than sheer pace or spin to throw your opponents off balance? And they knew they'd be facing two 1st serves most of the match. That lack of breathing room is the key here. It was more than an ATG shot, an almost psychological weapon not unlike the slam dunk that said "I'm Pete Sampras and you're not!"

BTW I don't think Big Pancho's 2nd was quite as good as his 1st (relatively speaking). Pretty sure Kramer's was considered better, which along with the rest of his package is why I tend to think he'd be the toughest cookie for Pete among the old-timers.

Pete's lower percentage on second serves is probably influenced by how many times he approached behind it, don't think it was ever the percentage play even on grass.
Yeah I've brought up this factor myself. When you get passed you lose the point, no matter how good your (2nd) serve was, and I can say for a fact that not even the very best net rusher is gonna win close to 60% of points at the net day in and day out. Maybe it's not such a bad gameplan on grass if you've got a 2nd serve like Pistol's, but chances are it should still be used sparingly.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Some of you guys need to go back and watch some of peak Roddick’s 2003 matches. There has never been someone in his height range who could serve so hard with so much spin and margin. He had many matches with around 70% first serve percentage because his 140mph serves were not flat at all, unlike most of the guys who could serve that hard.
 

am1899

Hall of Fame
Man, tough pick.

I give Nick the nod on the 1st serve. I disagree a bit with some others on Nick’s disguise. In particular, his serve on the ad side seems pretty readable - he tosses noticeably to the right when he serves T. The problem i think is he hits it so quickly out of his hand, and he hits his spot so well that it often doesn’t matter if the toss gives it away. Looks like he’s much tougher to read on the deuce side, though. Indeed, Roddick had a very fast and accurate first serve as well. But I think Kyrgios is quite a bit better at hitting spots precisely, than Roddick was. That video clip above is a good example - if Roddick hit his spot there, that serve probably doesn’t come back. 140mph a foot from the sideline is returnable for Fed (and some others). 140mph on the sideline, forget it.

I would give Roddick the nod on the second serve, by a very wide margin. Nick either rolls in a slow, hanging kick, or insanely goes for another first serve. Roddick’s second serve was much faster and heavier, but at the same time hit with more margin. Seems like Roddick double faulted a lot less than Kyrgios does.

Overall, if I had a gun to my head, I’d pick Roddick. Why? If nothing else, Kyrgios is a lunatic on court, who by his own admission doesn’t take his occupation seriously. Even if he’s interested in playing (which seems a rare occurrence in and of itself) he hardly ever plays percentages. Once in a blue moon, that works out for him. Most of the time it doesn’t. Roddick was unquestionably a much more consistent performer than Nick is (at least so far, and I’m not holding my breath that will change).
 

mental midget

Hall of Fame
That's the extra gear I'm talking about. I still think Goran, Ivo and several other guys could be more dangerous on a given day, but who would you back in a Slam final against ATGs/GOATs where your nerves are running high and you need more than sheer pace or spin to throw your opponents off balance? And they knew they'd be facing two 1st serves most of the match. That lack of breathing room is the key here. It was more than an ATG shot, an almost psychological weapon not unlike the slam dunk that said "I'm Pete Sampras and you're not!"
yeah, not that we're discussing it but i feel like i'd take goran's 1st over either of those. man the angles he could it, i remember so many of his aces where the returner wasn't even within like 6 feet of the ball.
 

tennis24x7

Semi-Pro
Man, tough pick.

I give Nick the nod on the 1st serve. I disagree a bit with some others on Nick’s disguise. In particular, his serve on the ad side seems pretty readable - he tosses noticeably to the right when he serves T. The problem i think is he hits it so quickly out of his hand, and he hits his spot so well that it often doesn’t matter if the toss gives it away. Looks like he’s much tougher to read on the deuce side, though. Indeed, Roddick had a very fast and accurate first serve as well. But I think Kyrgios is quite a bit better at hitting spots precisely, than Roddick was. That video clip above is a good example - if Roddick hit his spot there, that serve probably doesn’t come back. 140mph a foot from the sideline is returnable for Fed (and some others). 140mph on the sideline, forget it.

I would give Roddick the nod on the second serve, by a very wide margin. Nick either rolls in a slow, hanging kick, or insanely goes for another first serve. Roddick’s second serve was much faster and heavier, but at the same time hit with more margin. Seems like Roddick double faulted a lot less than Kyrgios does.

Overall, if I had a gun to my head, I’d pick Roddick. Why? If nothing else, Kyrgios is a lunatic on court, who by his own admission doesn’t take his occupation seriously. Even if he’s interested in playing (which seems a rare occurrence in and of itself) he hardly ever plays percentages. Once in a blue moon, that works out for him. Most of the time it doesn’t. Roddick was unquestionably a much more consistent performer than Nick is (at least so far, and I’m not holding my breath that will change).
Exactly and its was partly because Fed was in Andy's head too
 
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