Who is better on hard courts: Nadal or Murray?

Who is better on hard courts?

  • Rafael Nadal (Vamos!)

    Votes: 59 77.6%

  • Andy Murray (Freeeeeeedom!)

    Votes: 7 9.2%

  • Their resumes are approximately equal

    Votes: 3 3.9%

  • So disrespectful to Djokovic this thread is!

    Votes: 7 9.2%
  • Total voters
    76
tennis_pro said:
Nadal no doubt but Murray is a more natural hard courter.
Click to expand...

What does it mean more "natural"? How can Rafa win more if he is less "natural"?

I never understood what this means. If Rafa's game works better on HC than Murray's how is Murray's game more natural?

Executing under pressure, isn't that more natural than struggling under pressure? Rafa feels more at home under pressure on HC than Murray.

So, I don't see how Murray is more natural there.
 
jg153040 said:
What does it mean more "natural"? How can Rafa win more if he is less "natural"?

I never understood what this means. If Rafa's game works better on HC than Murray's how is Murray's game more natural?

Executing under pressure, isn't that more natural than struggling under pressure? Rafa feels more at home under pressure on HC than Murray.

So, I don't see how Murray is more natural there.
Click to expand...

If Tennis is defined as this, then it could be possible case:

Running2.jpg
 
jg153040 said:
What does it mean more "natural"? How can Rafa win more if he is less "natural"?

I never understood what this means. If Rafa's game works better on HC than Murray's how is Murray's game more natural?

Executing under pressure, isn't that more natural than struggling under pressure? Rafa feels more at home under pressure on HC than Murray.

So, I don't see how Murray is more natural there.
Click to expand...

It's largely because Nadal

1) gets penalized for the drop-off in form from clay to HC


2) his skillset IS better suited for non-HC surfaces.....but being the freak of nature that he is, it translates well to any surface.

3) Murray just seems like a hard courter, aesthetically. He moves best on the surface whereas Nadal struggles to stay healthy on hard courts.


Murrays game is just more in line with what you'd normally associate with a hard court player. But that doesn't mean he is better.
 
jg153040 said:
What does it mean more "natural"? How can Rafa win more if he is less "natural"?

I never understood what this means. If Rafa's game works better on HC than Murray's how is Murray's game more natural?

Executing under pressure, isn't that more natural than struggling under pressure? Rafa feels more at home under pressure on HC than Murray.

So, I don't see how Murray is more natural there.
Click to expand...

It means that Murray's game is suited for hard courts more than Nadal's. Nadal still basically plays the same way he does on clay but because overall he's a much greater player than Murray he wins more even on hard courts.

The only tournament I saw Nadal look like a natural hard courter was the 2010 US Open. Big serve, big forehand, very aggressive, came in often.
 
Can't believe so many are voting Nadal when Murray is clearly superior HC player. :shock: :confused:

This place is just unbelievable.
 
Chico said:
Can't believe so many are voting Nadal when Murray is clearly superior HC player. :shock: :confused:

This place is just unbelievable.
Click to expand...

You might be on to something. Murray is also a superior grass and USO player than Djokovic.

In most important matches slam finals, Murray won both of them.
 
tennis_pro said:
It means that Murray's game is suited for hard courts more than Nadal's. Nadal still basically plays the same way he does on clay but because overall he's a much greater player than Murray he wins more even on hard courts.

The only tournament I saw Nadal look like a natural hard courter was the 2010 US Open. Big serve, big forehand, very aggressive, came in often.
Click to expand...

You are right about that but Murray is not quite known for his serve, forehand and attaking strategy :)
 
Bukmeikara said:
You are right about that but Murray is not quite known for his serve, forehand and attaking strategy :)
Click to expand...

He's still a more natural hard courter than Nadal. Nadal loops his forehand to the opponent's backhand until it either breaks down or creates an opening to hit in the open court. He does this ALL THE TIME. Murray tries to outfox you a bit more, he slices more, hits a flatter ball.
 
TheFifthSet said:
It's largely because Nadal

1) gets penalized for the drop-off in form from clay to HC


2) his skillset IS better suited for non-HC surfaces.....but being the freak of nature that he is, it translates well to any surface.

3) Murray just seems like a hard courter, aesthetically. He moves best on the surface whereas Nadal struggles to stay healthy on hard courts.


Murrays game is just more in line with what you'd normally associate with a hard court player. But that doesn't mean he is better.
Click to expand...

I don't know, this all sound like myths to me. Tennis is a game of a lot of skills. So, the person who wins most is the most natural at the game. That makes sense and everything else are excuses.

Murray is better in some aspects, but results say that overall, Nadal is more natural on HC. What is natural or not is just an illusion.
 
jg153040 said:
You might be on to something. Murray is also a superior grass and USO player than Djokovic.

In most important matches slam finals, Murray won both of them.
Click to expand...

Not even close sorry. Djokovic is better player than Murray on all surfaces.
 
tennis_pro said:
It means that Murray's game is suited for hard courts more than Nadal's. Nadal still basically plays the same way he does on clay but because overall he's a much greater player than Murray he wins more even on hard courts.

The only tournament I saw Nadal look like a natural hard courter was the 2010 US Open. Big serve, big forehand, very aggressive, came in often.
Click to expand...

That doesn't mean anything. It's just an illusion. The object is to win points. So, whoever does that better is more "natural" at it.

The rest is just noise to me. Isn't more natural what works better? It is just a contradiction to me, that doesn't make sense to me. Sounds like a myth.

Fed also looks like a "natural" HC player, but vs Nadal, he looks very unatural and awkward, cuz Rafa forces him into this.
 
Bukmeikara said:
And Yet Nadal with better stats than Djokovic at both US Open and WImbledon is worse than Murray:) Inceptionnnnnnnnnnn .... Interstellarrrrrrrrrrrrr
Click to expand...

It is not that simple. Tennis is not the math. Stats are like a bikini.

Djokovic > Murray > Nadal everywhere outside clay.
 
Chico said:
It is not that simple. Tennis is not the math. Stats are like a bikini.

Djokovic > Murray > Nadal everywhere outside clay.
Click to expand...

If tennis is not math, then who decides? If we don't use numbers, than anyone can claim anything and nothing has any meaning.
 
jg153040 said:
I don't know, this all sound like myths to me. Tennis is a game of a lot of skills. So, the person who wins most is the most natural at the game. That makes sense and everything else are excuses.

Murray is better in some aspects, but results say that overall, Nadal is more natural on HC. What is natural or not is just an illusion.
Click to expand...


You misunderstand, I actually agree with you :)....but I would say those are some of the reasons people would offer up.

Murray to me is more "natural LOOKING".... but Nadal is a great talent on any surface.

(Even though the gap on HC's isn't massive)
 
Bad_Knee said:
They both lucked out with homogenisation of the surfaces, both would suck on real speedy hard courts.
Click to expand...

actually murray Plays well on fast surfaces, because he tolerates pace and low bounces well, has a good slice and flat groundstrokes.

just because murray is defensive it doesn't mean he likes slow Courts, like Hewitt he does better on faster and lower bouncing Courts because he does not hit with much spin and does not like generating his own pace.
 
Chico said:
It is not that simple. Tennis is not the math. Stats are like a bikini.

Djokovic > Murray > Nadal everywhere outside clay.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, eschew stats when they don't support your agenda.

Off-clay majors; Nadal 5, Murray 2

"Nadal isn't comparable to Murray on grass (implied)"

Wimbledon's: Nadal 2, Murray 1. Wimbledon finals: Nadal 5, Murray 2.

Record against rest of big 4 at Wimbledon: Nadal 5-3, Murray 1-4


Ergo, "not comparable"
 
Nadal is better than Murray on every single surface. Never seen Murray play at the peak level of Nadal on hards and Rafa has 2 more majors...
 
Chico said:
Can't believe so many are voting Nadal when Murray is clearly superior HC player. :shock: :confused:

This place is just unbelievable.
Click to expand...

Because most people seem to have some common sense. Murray can't be a greater overall hc player than Nadal if Nadal has 3 hc slams and Murray has 1. Duh.
 
Chico said:
It is not that simple. Tennis is not the math. Stats are like a bikini.

Djokovic > Murray > Nadal everywhere outside clay.
Click to expand...
Your opinion isn't a surface, sorry.

At least the intricacies of court surfaces are more than skin-deep.
 
TheFifthSet said:
You misunderstand, I actually agree with you :)....but I would say those are some of the reasons people would offer up.

Murray to me is more "natural LOOKING".... but Nadal is a great talent on any surface.

(Even though the gap on HC's isn't massive)
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't see it. Yeah, more "naturally LOOKING" is just another excuse to me.

It's like saying a shy guy who gets tons of women is not natural with women vs a guy who is confident, but gets less of them. It's how you argue when you lose. It sounds really crazy to me and to you too.

Yeah, those are all reasons people give, but they don't have any merit.
 
Chico said:
Unfortunately the feeling is not mutual. Can't say the same for you and some others here. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I know it's not, that makes me like you even more. I like people who don't like me. It's a challenge. It's easy to like people who love you.

You shouldn't like me. When I say bad stuff about Nole, I'm really mean :). When you say it, you are just ignorant and passionate. So, I am the bad guy here.
 
Mainad said:
In actual fact, Murray is 1-1 v Nadal at the AO and 1-1 v Nadal at the USO so overall he is 2-2 v Nadal in HC Slams which means they are very well balanced in the biggest hardcourt events in their personal H2H. Even their 2010 semi-final at the WTF, their sole meeting at that event, went down to the wire with Murray holding match points in the final set tie breaker which he failed to convert.

All of which means that Murray has already proved he can compete with Nadal on HC. He just needs to raise his level only a little more to start beating him more. As you say, the records speak for themselves.
Click to expand...

More important than just H2H, Nadal has won so many HC events and more slams on HC. I think those put Nadal well ahead of Murray on HC.
 
chjtennis said:
More important than just H2H, Nadal has won so many HC events and more slams on HC. I think those put Nadal well ahead of Murray on HC.
Click to expand...

My bad. Just checked and Murray has 25 HC titles to Nadal's 16. 9 HC Masters 1000 to Nadal's 8. However, when it comes to slams, he just couldn't win. OK. I think Nadal is the big stage player while Murray has the capability but just cannot get the job done on the biggest stage. Murray might be as good as Nadal on HC, but he fails on the big stage. Which still gives the edge to Nadal, because performing on the big stages counts a lot, I guess. In terms of pure ability, I think Murray is just as good or pretty close to Nadal.
 
Bad_Knee said:
They both lucked out with homogenisation of the surfaces, both would suck on real speedy hard courts.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna go with this.

Take a look at their titles, where they were won, and the surface speed of each location.

If you look at their HC losses its usually on the faster courts and the wins are on the slower courts.
 
chjtennis said:
My bad. Just checked and Murray has 25 HC titles to Nadal's 16. 9 HC Masters 1000 to Nadal's 8. However, when it comes to slams, he just couldn't win. OK. I think Nadal is the big stage player while Murray has the capability but just cannot get the job done on the biggest stage. Murray might be as good as Nadal on HC, but he fails on the big stage. Which still gives the edge to Nadal, because performing on the big stages counts a lot, I guess. In terms of pure ability, I think Murray is just as good or pretty close to Nadal.
Click to expand...

You seem to be forgetting that Murray has a HC Slam to his name so what do you mean that he can never get it done on the big stage? Yes, Nadal has 2 more HC Slams which puts him ahead but not by THAT much, I mean we're talking 3-1 here not 7-1 and, as I have already said, they are extremely close in their personal H2H at the HC Slams and in other big HC events!

Nadal is obviously way ahead of Murray on clay (9 Slams to 0) but only slightly ahead on HC (3 Slams to 1) and on grass (2 Slams to 1)!
 
Nadal and it's not even threadworthy.

Murray can definitely still turn this around in his favor... but unfortunately Rafa could add to his totals also.

Rafa has taken out the hard court GOAT at the AO and has taken out the most successful hard court player of the last 5 years at the USO.
 
Nadal is better on hard courts. Not because his game suits it more than Murray's because it doesn't, but because he's a much better player overall and has clearly done better in hard court slams than Murray.
 
Have to give the edge to Nadal. He has three times as many slams on HC as Murray, is only one master behind and leads the H2H on HC. Murray has more indoor titles, but seeing how both haven't won WTF I'm assuming they're relatively minor titles.

Gotta give it to Nadal
 
What is the argument for Murray here? 3 slams to 1 and more slam finals speaks clearly. Subjectively as well, I think Nadal's highest level on HC is monstrous, better than anything I've seen Murray produce on any surface.
 
Nadal is greater in terms of resumé, but I say Murray is better in terms of average level, and more versatile (i.e. can do indoors very well, along with all other types of hard court). It's just that he is mentally much weaker than the Nadal.
 
President said:
What is the argument for Murray here? 3 slams to 1 and more slam finals speaks clearly. Subjectively as well, I think Nadal's highest level on HC is monstrous, better than anything I've seen Murray produce on any surface.
Click to expand...

Essentially this. Nadal even has 2 WTF finals showing a higher level indoors than Murray too IMO.

No contest really.
 
NatF said:
Essentially this. Nadal even has 2 WTF finals showing a higher level indoors than Murray too IMO.

No contest really.
Click to expand...

This.. not only achievements but level too.. 2009 and 2012 AO ..and 2010 USO rafa level is far superior than any show of murrayin hC ..specially the 2009 AO level was insane...

Cincinatti 2013 was pretty good too.
 
The_Mental_Giant said:
This.. not only achievements but level too.. 2009 and 2012 AO ..and 2010 USO rafa level is far superior than any show of murrayin hC ..specially the 2009 AO level was insane...

Cincinatti 2013 was pretty good too.
Click to expand...

I agree that Nadal's peak on HC is greater than Murray's but I don't think it's by a huge amount by any means, certainly not as much as some posters on here are saying. People seem to forget how good Murray was when he beat Nadal at the 2008 USO and took Djokovic to the brink at the 2012 AO.
 
Mainad said:
....and minors in majors! :wink:
Click to expand...

How?

NAdal has better results in SLams and YEc.


3 GS (6 finals)
2 YEC finals
8 in m1000 (15 finals)
1 Olympic gold (HC surface)
2 atp 500 titles
2 atp 250 titles

Murray

1 GS (5 finals)
no yec finals
9 m1000 (12 finals)
4 atp 500 hc titles
11 atp 250 hc titles.

Rafa has more titles and/or finals in slam and yec, and 1 less title but more finals (3 more) in m1000 HC tournaments.

the only minors that murray has a real advantage are the atp 250 :lol: vultures
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I agree that Nadal's peak on HC is greater than Murray's but I don't think it's by a huge amount by any means, certainly not as much as some posters on here are saying. People seem to forget how good Murray was when he beat Nadal at the 2008 USO and took Djokovic to the brink at the 2012 AO.
Click to expand...

I agree the distance is not as big as some people make it to be.. murray on peak in HC stands quite close to the rest of the BIg 4... let alone if we talk about his grass peak. Clay is the only surface where Murray peak lag considerably behind.. although it isnt bad either.. considering the way he played this year in RG prior the match with nadal.... But its quite far (well who isnt) from the level displayed by rafa in RG 2008 or even 2010, Djokovic in Rome 2011 or RG 2012.. and ROger in the match or madrid 2006 (despite loss his level was insane) or Hamburg 2007.
 
Bukmeikara said:
How is Murray better hardcourt player than Nadal? Is he more offensive, have better serve or forehand or something?

Master 1000 Nadal/Murray

Titles 8/9
Finals 15/12
SF 29/20

Andy has inferiour record to Nadal at the Slams, Master and the WTF. How is that making him the better player? Murray has more titles probably because he played more tournaments(not checked) while Nadal preffers the clay ones. And yet Nadal had still won Beijing, Tokyo, Dubai, Doha and played final at Rotterdam and Tokyo.
Click to expand...


Murray is a better hard courter than nadal in terms of consistency. He has more masters on hard courts than nadal and won a lot more hardcourt titles. With that said nadal has the highest peak level of the two on hardcourt and that's why he has more slams. But on an average day murray is the better player. I still voted for nadal though because 3 slams vs 1 is important.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Roger2003Wimbledon
  • Poll Poll
Who is the better Hard court player, Davydenko or Nadal?
3 4 5
Replies
204
Views
14K
Deleted member 688153
D
dandelion_smiley
Nadal better on grass or hard courts?
2
Replies
50
Views
6K
dlk
dlk
F
  • Poll Poll
Who is the greater hard court player, Davydenko or Nadal?
Replies
0
Views
327
Federer-Slam-King
F
NBP
  • Poll Poll
Who has had a better year - Federer or Murray?
2 3
Replies
120
Views
5K
Deleted member 716271
D
T
  • Poll Poll
Is Nadal 2nd greatest hard court player of last 10 years
2
Replies
94
Views
8K
HelloNewmann
HelloNewmann
Back
Top