Who is technically superior Djokovic or Safin?

[Shady_Sawyer]

Technically who is the better player during their peaks?... Djokovic (2011) or Safin (2005).

Serve - Safin
Forehand - Safin
Backhand - Djokovic
Movement- Djokovic
Net game (volleys and overheads) - Safin
Lobs - Djokovic

Thats my assessment. What do you think guys?

 

[metsman]

safin at his best had a better backhand. Imo when he is playing at a high level it is the best backhand ever. Djoker the best defensive backhand, but Safin the best offense and I am an offense over defense guy. His DTL and inside out backhand was sex. Not sure he was technically superior than Djoker off the forehand though. Safin's forehand was inconsistent in its effectiveness and could break down.

 

[metsman]

obligatory...Safin against peak Djoko at AO.

 

[Adv. Edberg]

Overall I'd say Safin is better.

Djoko might have a better BH but it's arguable. When Djoko plays on medium fast or faster surface, his game breaks down pretty quickly. When he's got lots of time on the ball he can take a pretty nice cut with his BH. I'd give the all the other shots to Safin though.

 

[BeatlesFan]

I really think Safin is one of the greatest wastes of pure talent ever seen on a tennis court. He was mesmerizing and a BEAST in top form. The only thing Djoker does better than peak Marat is movement. And of course, Novak has morphed into a extremely mentally strong guy on court. Had Safin had that ability, he could have won 10-12 slams, even with Federer around. But he cared more about babes, partying and having fun.

 

[xFedal]

safin at his best had a better backhand. Imo when he is playing at a high level it is the best backhand ever. Djoker the best defensive backhand, but Safin the best offense and I am an offense over defense guy. His DTL and inside out backhand was sex. Not sure he was technically superior than Djoker off the forehand though. Safin's forehand was inconsistent in its effectiveness and could break down.

Novaks serve is better, safin only won 82% of his service games thats like Murrays numbers.

 

[metsman]

Novaks serve is better, safin only won 82% of his service games thats like Murrays numbers.

we are talking peak Safin.

 

[beltsman]

Technically who is the better player during their peaks?... Djokovic (2011) or Safin (2005).

Serve - Safin
Forehand - Safin
Backhand - Djokovic
Movement- Djokovic
Net game (volleys and overheads) - Safin
Lobs - Djokovic

Thats my assessment. What do you think guys?

Skill - Safin
Talent - Safin
Personality - Safin

 

[Cup8489]

From a technical standpoint? Djokovic wins. That's the question being asked. Safin's forehand seemed to have a strange swing to it, whereas Djokovic's forehand is pretty much the textbook Western forehand drive. Same with the backhand and serve.. the serve is a classic platform stance serve.. whereas safin's is a somewhat quirky pinpoint serve.

 

[OhYes]

Serve - Safin
Forehand - Safin
Backhand - Safin
Movement- equal
Net game (volleys and overheads) - Safin
Lobs - Safin
Skill - Safin
Talent - Safin
Personality - Safin

More success - Djokovic.

 

[jm1980]

we are talking peak Safin.

What's peak Safin?

 

[NoleFam]

Safin was a great talent but he is nowhere near the level of Novak Djokovic and anybody who suggests otherwise get this reaction from me...

His peak was only less than 5 times in his career, whereas Djokovic's has been years. LOL. Put Djokovic 2011 US Open, or 2011 or 2015 Wimbledon against any form of Safin and he will lose.

 

[NoleFam]

Serve - Safin
Forehand - Safin
Backhand - Safin
Movement- equal
Net game (volleys and overheads) - Safin
Lobs - Safin
Skill - Safin
Talent - Safin
Personality - Safin

More success - Djokovic.

LOL. My sentiments exactly.

 

[metsman]

What's peak Safin?

a mythical and unattainable beast

 

[jm1980]

a mythical and unattainable beast

Are we talking about one match? One tournament? One year?

 

[helterskelter]

Safin was taller and stronger than Djokovic. His serve may thus have been more powerful, but I don't think it was technically superior.

I think Djokovic's forehand was significantly technically superior to Safin's. The backhand comparison would be much closer.

Djokovic's greater consistency probably reflects superior technique as well as his more hard-working personality.

I do think Safin had the ability to do much better than he did.

 

[metsman]

Safin was a great talent but he is nowhere near the level of Novak Djokovic and anybody who suggests otherwise get this reaction from me...

His peak was only less than 5 times in his career, whereas Djokovic's has been years. LOL. Put Djokovic 2011 US Open, or 2011 or 2015 Wimbledon against any form of Safin and he will lose.

Safin is far more talented than Djokovic. Djokovic is way more hard working and consistent which is what matters more.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Safin was a great talent but he is nowhere near the level of Novak Djokovic and anybody who suggests otherwise get this reaction from me...

His peak was only less than 5 times in his career, whereas Djokovic's has been years. LOL. Put Djokovic 2011 US Open, or 2011 or 2015 Wimbledon against any form of Safin and he will lose.

2005 AO Safin beats 2011 USO Djokovic (a Federer who was notably worse than AO 2005 had MPs against Novak there)
2015 Wimbledon too.

But I agree on Wimbledon 2011, Novak is underrated in that final match.

 

[NoleFam]

2005 AO Safin beats 2011 USO Djokovic (a Federer who was notably worse than AO 2005 had MPs against Novak there)
2015 Wimbledon too.

But I agree on Wimbledon 2011, Novak is underrated in that final match.

duplicate

 

[metsman]

2005 AO Safin beats 2011 USO Djokovic (a Federer who was notably worse than AO 2005 had MPs against Novak there)
2015 Wimbledon too.

But I agree on Wimbledon 2011, Novak is underrated in that final match.

nadal was kinda bad

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Safin is far more talented than Djokovic. Djokovic is way more hard working and consistent which is what matters more.

Safin has a bit more natural talent than Novak depending on how you look at it (and "talent" is pretty subjective).
Djokovic is definitely way more hard working and consistent.

 

[NoleFam]

2005 AO Safin beats 2011 USO Djokovic (a Federer who was notably worse than AO 2005 had MPs against Novak there)
2015 Wimbledon too.

But I agree on Wimbledon 2011, Novak is underrated in that final match.

To be fair, you have to compare 2000 US Open Safin vs 2011 US Open Djokovic since it's the same surface. Also Novak's performance in the 2011 US Open Final was godly and often overlooked. That was an insane match. There's no version of Safin who could beat 2015 Djokovic on grass.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

To be fair, you have to compare 2000 US Open Safin vs 2011 US Open Djokovic since it's the same surface. There's no version of Safin who could beat 2015 Djokovic on grass.

Quite probably, I'll give you that.

I was making it surface-neutral.

 

[helterskelter]

2005 AO Safin beats 2011 USO Djokovic (a Federer who was notably worse than AO 2005 had MPs against Novak there)
2015 Wimbledon too.

But I agree on Wimbledon 2011, Novak is underrated in that final match.

Both Safin and Djokovic are more comfortable in Australia than New York. Federer, by contrast, is more comfortable at the US than the Australian Open. So, I'm not sure the comparison is particularly meaningful.

The comparison to Wimbledon is even more difficult to sustain.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

nadal was kinda bad

Nah.
Nads was fine in the Wimby final (Novak just smashed it), it was the USO final where he capitulated.

Novak Wimby 2011 >> Novak USO 2011

 

[xFedal]

we are talking peak Safin.

Djokovic has better FH and BH, Nole has better serve also. How can you possibly say a guy who 82% of his service games has better Serve than Djokovic, totally ridiculous, even Nadal who is having a disatrous serving season has better stats this year than Safina.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Both Safin and Djokovic are more comfortable in Australia than New York. Federer, by contrast, is more comfortable at the US than the Australian Open. So, I'm not sure the comparison is particularly meaningful.

The comparison to Wimbledon is even more difficult to sustain.

Safin hammered Pete at the USO though.
I'm not sure he's particularly affected by surface, some players are broadly okay with many surfaces.

 

[OhYes]

Safin is far more talented than Djokovic. Djokovic is way more hard working and consistent which is what matters more.

Ok I get how we can measure who works more, I mean even 9 year older Ivanisevic toys with Safin these days... but how have you been able to measure Safin and Djokovic talent ? To use words like Safin is far more talented than Djokovic, that's like you are even more certain than Safin could produce his better tennis if he had worked more.
Why don't we have facepalm emoticons around here ?

 

[metsman]

duplicate

knee butchered past his prime Safin wrecked prime Novak at Wimby.

 

[tennisaddict]

One has skill, the other has talent. I prefer the latter.

 

[metsman]

Ok I get how we can measure who works more, I mean even 9 year older Ivanisevic toys with Safin these days... but how have you been able to measure Safin and Djokovic talent ? To use words like Safin is far more talented than Djokovic, that's like you are even more certain than Safin could produce his better tennis if he had worked more.
Why don't we have facepalm emoticons around here ?

oh but we do

 

[metsman]

Nah.
Nads was fine in the Wimby final (Novak just smashed it), it was the USO final where he capitulated.

Novak Wimby 2011 >> Novak USO 2011

rafa was clearly worse in the 2011 final than 2006 and 2007-2008 goes without saying.

 

[Captain Grant]

Safin moves like elephant on ice, he doesn't have a great forehand. Djokovic is a lot lot better than Safin while Wawrinka, Del Potro and Murray are just better than Marat.

 

[OhYes]

oh but we do

Not ******** emoticons

 

[NoleFam]

Safin hammered Pete at the USO though.
I'm not sure he's particularly affected by surface, some players are broadly okay with many surfaces.

Yea he did destroy Sampras that day. I watched that match live. He never played like that again at the US Open. However, he is affected by surface. He never really did well on grass or clay.

 

[metsman]

Yea he did destroy Sampras that day. I watched that match live. He never played like that again at the US Open. However, he is affected by surface. He never really did well om grass or clay.

safin had too much swag...he burned too hot so he made his entrance, took his title belt, and went home. Kinda like John over here.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

rafa was clearly worse in the 2011 final than 2006 and 2007-2008 goes without saying.

I think he was pretty similar in 2006 and 2011 W finals.
Would have probably won against anyone else in the draw on both occasions, but unlucky to face GOATing opponents in both.

He was better in 2007 and 2008, agreed.

 

[Numero Uno]

dont know why people praise safin so much, his game was too attacking, something like wawrinka, always goes for winners and thats why his consistency suffered.. there is a point where you just cant be that much offensive, like federer this year, but i understand him, rpger had to shortrn points becaise he wasn't physically prepared..

 

[metsman]

I think he was pretty similar in 2006 and 2011 W finals.
Would have probably won against anyone else in the draw on both occasions, but unlucky to face GOATing opponents in both.

He was better in 2007 and 2008, agreed.

he was easily better in 2006. As the stats and eye test back up. And if you take the first set of 2006 out the gap is even wider.

 

[PinShot]

I think Safin was a huge Talent and a Nutcase. And I like him because of that.

But Peak Safin vs Peak Djokovic is like Peak Patterson vs Peak Ali.

Safin can throw at him, whatever hes got in his Arsenal .. but there is nothing he can hurt Djokovic with in the course of a whole Match.

Safin stands there as one of the glorious Members of the weakest Eras ever, where Federer was able to amass Slams vs a flock of One-Eyed Chicken.

Safins BH may have been more effective, sharper and flat with more acceleration - thus maybe better. I don't think it was more consistent tough. And peak vs peak his Backhand just doesnt hurt Djokovic. Because Djokovic is a Master of Directing/Redirecting Balls at will.

And because I believe Djokovic is the greatest natural Athlete to ever grace a Tennis Court. Followed closely by Pete Sampras.

So, peak Safins BH may have been better - but it's not important - because peak Djokovic is by far the better Tennis Player.

 

[helterskelter]

Safin hammered Pete at the USO though.
I'm not sure he's particularly affected by surface, some players are broadly okay with many surfaces.

Yeah, but that was the only time he made the US Open final, and he only made one other semi (when Sampras beat him easily, after Safin had been pushed by Johansson and Ljubicic). In Australia, he made the final three times.

I wouldn't say he was "much" better at the Australian Open. But I would say that he was definitely slightly better. Same with Djokovic. His performances in New York are extremely good overall. Just not quite as good as those in Melbourne.

 

[CYGS]

Djokovic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Safin > Federer /thread

 

[okdude1992]

Technically meaning strokes right? Djokovic has better technique and margin on pretty much every shot except the backhand (where they are around equal IMO) and net game. Novak is actually really efficient, and has some of the best strokes on tour IMO. That being said he doesn't quite have the timing, and aggressive shotmaking abilities of Marat Safin (which is what many people falsely consider "talent")

Safin didn't have the soundest mechanics on his forehand or serve to really maximize those shots. But what he did have was incredible timing (and being a big strong dude helped as well) allowing him to be a super clean ballstriker on par with a guy like Agassi.

 

[okdude1992]

It's too bad Gulbis is such a flake and has such a junky forehand, or he could be the modern day Safin.

 

[OhYes]

Djokovic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Safin > Federer /thread

Comparing Safin with Djokovic is kind of like comparing Eminem with Pavarotti. Safin and Roddick were two most embarrassing players ever to hold rackets. And I really mean it.
Find any athlete in the world from any sport with their manners and behavior, and you will find out that they are never compared with any legend from their field. They serve only to amuse and to set stage for main act.

 

[metsman]

Comparing Safin with Djokovic is kind of like comparing Eminem with Pavarotti. Safin and Roddick were two most embarrassing players ever to hold rackets. And I really mean it.
Find any athlete in the world from any sport with their manners and behavior, and you will find out that they are never compared with any legend from their field. They serve only to amuse and to set stage for main act.

safin bangs more chicks the night before a slam final than Djoker ever has...he's the real legend, sorry to tell you mate.

 

[Jaitock1991]

safin at his best had a better backhand. Imo when he is playing at a high level it is the best backhand ever. Djoker the best defensive backhand, but Safin the best offense and I am an offense over defense guy. His DTL and inside out backhand was sex. Not sure he was technically superior than Djoker off the forehand though. Safin's forehand was inconsistent in its effectiveness and could break down.

Agree. Other than that, OPs opinion is pretty much identical to mine. Peak Safin's attacking backhand was so brutal it was almost as if he didn't need a defensive backhand.
Djokovic's movement(in many way the most crucial part of tennis) however, is leagues ahead.

 

[metsman]

Agree. Other than that, OPs opinion is pretty much identical to mine. Peak Safin's attacking backhand was so brutal it was almost as if he didn't need a defensive backhand.
Djokovic's movement(in many way the most crucial part of tennis) however, is leagues ahead.

Safin was still probably the best mover ever at that size. Maybe second only to Michael Stich or something.

 

[Jaitock1991]

Safin was still probably the best mover ever at that size. Maybe second only to Michael Stich or something.

Easily. And had he had someone like the Djoker's work ethic, it could have been world class.

 

[OhYes]

safin bangs more chicks the night before a slam final than Djoker ever has...he's the real legend, sorry to tell you mate.

Good for him
Just remember to switch your brain from "values of a pimp" to "values of a tennis player" when you want to talk about tennis achievements.