Who Is The Best Volleyer Of All Time?

Who Is The Best Volleyer Of All Time? Post a Poll

  • Total voters
    64
C

ctbmar

Semi-Pro
Only Maximum 10 poll options
----------------------------
Becker
Cash
Edberg
Federer
Henman
J. McEnroe
Krajicek
Rafter
Sampras
Stich

Honorary Roll
------------
Ivanisevic
Dent
Navratilova
Novotna

My Ranking For Best Volleys Combination-Skill-Athletism Package
--------------------------------------------------------------
1st: Edberg 10/10 (Best Positioning, Low Volleys, Half-Volleys,Best Coverage)
2nd: J. Mcenroe 9.7/10 (Best Drop/Dead Volleys, Reflex Volleys, Short Angles)
3rd: Rafter 9.6/10 (Commando-Style, Lots of Energy, Super Net Rusher)
4th: Cash 9.4/10 (Excellent Net Coverage, Deep Angles, Stretching Volleys)
5th: Stich 9.3/10 (Crispy Volleys, Excellent Footwork, Technically Strong)
6th: Sampras 9.2/10 (Hard worker, not a natural volleyer, but became one)
7th: Becker 9.1/10 (Diving specialist, intimidating presence, small errors)
8th: Krajicek 9.0/10 (Excellent technique, but with nervous tendencies)
9th: Federer 8.5/10 (Fast Volleys, improving, not peak yet, will reach 9.4/10)
10th: Henman 8.4/10 (Looks good because old-timer volleyers all retired)
11th: Ivanisevic 8.0/10 (Lefty serves give easy put-aways, nothing special)
12th: Dent 7.5/10 (Unneccessay waste of energy, unfit, but rare breed now)
 
This has been discussed many times but I will again state that for "Open Era" :
Best volleyer == Mac
Best SV game not soo decisive, could be Mac, Edberg, Becker, Rafter, ...
The answer should be based on both singles and doubles results.
 
Tchocky said:
McEnroe & Edberg were the best volleyers of their day....Federer is the best now.
Click to expand...
Federer best current volleyer ???
Federer has not even needed to use a volley game yet ...
 
ctbmar said:
Who is the best volleyer of all time?

Only Maximum 10 poll options
----------------------------
Becker
Cash
Edberg
Federer
Henman
J. McEnroe
Krajicek
Rafter
Sampras
Stich

Honorary Roll
------------
Ivanisevic
Dent
Navratilova
Novotna

My Ranking For Best Volleys Combination-Skill-Athletism Package
--------------------------------------------------------------
1st: Edberg 10/10 (Best Positioning, Low Volleys, Half-Volleys,Best Coverage)
2nd: J. Mcenroe 9.7/10 (Best Drop/Dead Volleys, Reflex Volleys, Short Angles)
3rd: Rafter 9.6/10 (Commando-Style, Lots of Energy, Super Net Rusher)
4th: Cash 9.4/10 (Excellent Net Coverage, Deep Angles, Stretching Volleys)
5th: Stich 9.3/10 (Crispy Volleys, Excellent Footwork, Technically Strong)
6th: Sampras 9.2/10 (Hard worker, not a natural volleyer, but became one)
7th: Becker 9.1/10 (Diving specialist, intimidating presence, small errors)
8th: Krajicek 9.0/10 (Excellent technique, but with nervous tendencies)
9th: Federer 8.5/10 (Fast Volleys, improving, not peak yet, will reach 9.4/10)
10th: Henman 8.4/10 (Looks good because old-timer volleyers all retired)
11th: Ivanisevic 8.0/10 (Lefty serves give easy put-aways, nothing special)
12th: Dent 7.5/10 (Unneccessay waste of energy, unfit, but rare breed now)
Click to expand...


You stated alltime but Im sure you mean "Open Tennis" otherwise there would be some of the Greatest players ever on this list (from the real SV era) and it may very well have #1 as Jack Kramer or Pancho Ganzales
 
Open Era: McEnroe, without a doubt the one who consistently produced the most natural, effective, and pleasing-to-the-eye volleys I have ever had the good fortune to see (the only true master of every aspect of the volley -- forehand, backhand, half, angled, reflex, stab)
Pre-Open Era: Pancho Gonzales (catch a replay of the classic Gonzales-Pasarell Wimbledon match, for volleys that are truly works of art)
--Tenez
 
In terms of serve & volley, Becker is the best.
However, J. Mac and Edberg are the best for volley itself.
 
I didn't see any of them play but some of the older guys were pretty good. I'd like to hear about some of them from the elder statesmen of the group. My vote went to McEnroe with Edberg a close second.
 
I don't like Mac at all and Edberg is one of my favorite but I voted for J Mac. I think he is the best and Edberg is very very close 2nd.

Even though I like Rafter a lot, I somehow don't think he was in the same league with those two. Often I saw Rafter hit volley 'towards' the opponent while Mac, Edberg, Sampras made it more difficult for their opponents.
 
Why don't you like Mac, Tenny? He was human highlight reel. The softest hands of all time.

Mac & Edberg are far ahead of anyone on that list.
 
cadfael_tex said:
I didn't see any of them play but some of the older guys were pretty good. I'd like to hear about some of them from the elder statesmen of the group. My vote went to McEnroe with Edberg a close second.
Click to expand...

Strange, you never saw them play, but you voted for McEnroe...looks like some people look at the voting result and get swayed by the results, then they vote for the one that majority are voting...
 
Voted for Mac because of their effectiveness, but must say that he used very poor form by "running through" a lot of his volleys. He is a poor model to imitate.
 
Rickson said:
Johnny Mac was the best.
Click to expand...

For my money, still is.

Camilio Pascual said:
Voted for Mac because of their effectiveness, but must say that he used very poor form by "running through" a lot of his volleys. He is a poor model to imitate.
Click to expand...

He ran through his volleys because he basically had no split step. His anticipation, footspeed, and natural ability were so far above everybody else's that he didn't need or heed that textbook stuff. Same with his volley technique, racket head was usually below the wrist. I agree that he's a poor model for human's to imitate, but my goodness he was completely unstoppable at net.

Edberg is the model you want to imitate at net. Great mover, great technique, and rather than hitting the dropper, Edberg played open court better than anyone. McEnroe was more cat/mouse with his volleys.
 
Mac was the best but I've heard repeated that his form was "poor." How can someone with probably the best volleys ever, have poor form? Seems like we more or less don't know exactly what "good form" is.
 
Edberg is getting too few votes!!!

Edberg has the...
best positioning, closest to the net, after his kick serves,
best 1st volley,
best coverage at the net, while others have to lunge or dive, he just stretch...
best read of the service return to shutter step in the correct direction

After the 1st volley, Edberg is the most instinctive and fearless, gliding effortlessly closer to the net to finish off the 2nd volley, again best positioning.
Edberg's low shoe-lace volleys is an art, almost scrapping the ground, side-spin, deep ball placed perfectly at baseline corners, still anticipating for a return and in good position.
Edberg is a master at dividing his opponent's possible return and position himself to cover the crosscourt, down-the-line and lob equally.
Edberg's volleys are penetrating with tremendous slice, power and depth, staying low and fast. McEnroe's volleys are mainly reflex, quick release, stabbing, dead drop volleys, but not as penetrating as Edberg. Edberg is better at putting away volleys on 1st & 2nd volleys than McEnroe.
Edberg's kick-serve, 1st volley, then 2nd volley/smash combination is the most lethal and most effective, day-in-day-out, bread-&-butter shots, textbook style.
Edberg's volleys are crispy, a close 2nd to Stich.
Edberg's smash is probably a close 2nd tier to Sampras.
Edberg's hand-eye coordination is a close 2nd to McEnroe.
Edberg's reflexes are a close 2nd to McEnroe & Rafter.
Edberg's athletism is slightly below Becker's diving, Rafter aggressive gung-ho, but his lunges, stretch volleys, strutter-step, push-off directional movements are better than McEnroe.
Edberg rarely plays dead drop volleys like McEnroe, but these are rarity shots which should not hold much weightage to greatness.

Overall, Edberg has better power, consistency, athletism, depth of shots, positioning, movement, skidding & penetration of shots, coverage at the net which will win more of the big crucial points as compared to McEnroe who is stronger at reflex, drop, angles volleys which are rare speciality sensational shots that will win few memoriable points. Edberg's volleys are under-rated because he does the little things so well, that viewers do not appreciate that he does not need to lunge or dive like others to reach far away balls because of his total serve & volley package.

Another way of looking at it is, if a peak Federer keeps blasting balls with pinpoint accuracy, painting the lines with his passing shots...
A peak Edberg will have a higher chance of withstanding the barrage of power baseline shots and volley back these attempted passing shots better than McEnroe because of his better court coverage and penetrating volleys. It is really very hard for McEnroe to do a dead drop volley or angle volleys off a full blasted forehand from Federer. And if Federer does not hit any balls near McEnroe, how is McEnroe going to hit reflex, stab volleys?
I rather pick Edberg as the model to pit against Federer.
 
TheRed said:
Mac was the best but I've heard repeated that his form was "poor." How can someone with probably the best volleys ever, have poor form? Seems like we more or less don't know exactly what "good form" is.
Click to expand...

"Form" is really no more than the label applied to the physical methods that will give the most people the greatest success, if applied judiciously.

"Proper form" is "proper" only so far as players are playing the odds in trying to guarantee that they are successful -- i.e.: if this is the way most people have proven successful, it should be a good model for me to follow.

If one has better results using techniques that aren't really all that well suited to the masses, that's on the masses, not on him.

So yeah, Mac's "form" would have been a nightmare if you were trying to teach Joe Average Junior tennis guy how to volley. But that's because Joe Average isn't a one-in-a-billion athletic/tennis genius like Johnny Mac was. "Best" and "most textbook" are pretty far from being the same thing, as far as I'm concerned, and I don't know that the latter is relevant to this discussion. So I've got no problem parking JM at the top of this list.
 
Mac and Edberg with Stich not that far behind Edberg on technique. I still think Henman has better volleys that Federer by quite a margin.
 
Agree with Kevin: Mac and Edberg are far ahead of anyone on that list. My vote goes to Edberg: Far, far away the best forehand volley i´ve ever seen. Everyone who is beginning to play the game would should watch Edberg´s videos for his volleys, it was simply amazing.
 
Camilio Pascual said:
Voted for Mac because of their effectiveness, but must say that he used very poor form by "running through" a lot of his volleys. He is a poor model to imitate.
Click to expand...
Very true, about his lack of textbook form and his unsuitability as a model to imitate. Even more so on his half-volleys. Certainly not how they should be taught, but my, how effective they were and how natural they looked.
--Tenez
 
Kevin Patrick said:
Graf had poor form on the one of the greatest shots of all time-her forehand.
Click to expand...
I know the analogy you're trying to make here, but I couldn't help shudder at Graf being mentioned on a thread that includes sublime volleyers like Mac and Edberg...
--Tenez
 
TheRed said:
Mac was the best but I've heard repeated that his form was "poor." How can someone with probably the best volleys ever, have poor form? Seems like we more or less don't know exactly what "good form" is.
Click to expand...

Bjorn Borg was a nightmare of form by the then current standards for his groundstrokes. However, they worked pretty well for him. Just because McEnroe had bad form, by the teaching standards for volleys, doesn't mean they were great.

Today, Fabrice Santoro has a game that is by appearance a nightmare of form. But, it works for him very well you just wouldn't want to teach it.
 
I saw McEnroe play plenty and the rest that were on the list. I was talking about guys like Laver, Gonzales, Kramer, etc.
 
I'm still bemused that Mac is rated higher than Rafter.

I'd put Pat in a league of his own. Because he nearly "always" chip and charged and S & V'd I wouldn't put his all round game in Mac or Edbergs league, but he was the best volleyer of the last decade or so.

Not that I'm biased ;) but Henman's backhand sliced volley was the best in the game.

Pity the rest of his strokes weren't in the same league.
 
Cannot agree with Rafter in any way. Rafter's forehand volley often broke down under pressure. Instead of going through with an arm motion on the forehand volley and adding slice with a firm wrist, Rafter's wrist often jerked on contact with the ball meaning he had no control over the shot especially off higher returns or hard hit shots.

The best volleyer for me is Stefan Edberg. Fantastic form. Plus very graceful and athletic. McEnroe had incredible volleys. It would be hard to imitate as Camilio Pascual said because it was not textbook style volleys but all about his feel for the ball, especially how he caressed the volleys and took the pace of hard hit shots with stop volleys.

With most players you know when they are about to hit a stop volley because they open the racket face (doesn't mean you can stop it from been a winner). With McEnroe you couldn't see it coming because his technique was so deceptive. So his stop volleys were a surprise and looked like they would come out of nowhere.

Thats I would call inspiration - improvisation and creativity.

Having said all that I still go with Edberg.
 
I think Edberg's volley (and game for that matter) are overlooked because of his demeanor. I would agree that his form was better than Mac's but Mac (tantrums and all) was just so much fun to watch. I have to admit that Rafter is good but I just really can't remember his form all that well.
 
Mac played his volleys, as if he played the ball with the palm of his hand, often without any backswing. Edberg was textbook in the execution of the volley, he was so fast at the net, sometimes even before he hit his serve. He was prone to foot faults. It is interesting, that a woman was the first to play volleys regularly after serve: Alice Marble in the late 30s. A few years later, Kramer invented the big game for the men. Gonzales was like a panther, but had soft hands, too. Of the oldtimers many say, elegant Budge Patty, Laver and Roche had the best backhand volleys, Sedgman, Hoad and Newcombe were great on the forehand. Sedgman often left room on his right side, to draw the other guy into a pass. Hoad had a bit of his racket shaft chopped, to get a better feel for the volley. An underrated volleyer was Rosewall, who hit the ball mostly very late on the backhand, but it was deadly accurate.
 
McEnroe is a genius and one of his kind. He has some back problem (?) that's why he serve at a super extreme stance which is actually poor form to teach beginners...But everyone who is crazy about tennis like myself and I am sure kids in the 80s, early 90s, would have tried to emulate his service stance while practising with others on court and had a good laugh about it. The guy is just pure talent I agree, the things he can do with his racket at the net is one of the kind. A flick here, the ball miraculously gets angled away without much thought or without looking because his feel for his volleys is feather-touch...his hands are like the strings on his racket, feeling the impact of ball meeting his strings, prolonging the ball from leaving his racket. But I don't think McEnroe will be just as effective with the modern day group of power hitters. I still believe that Edberg will fair better than McEnroe if he was teleported or transported to play against today's hard hitters. If McEnroe cannot drop or angle his tricky volleys effectively, Federer or Nadal will just sprint forward and smash their groundstrokes past the helpless McEnroe. It will be ugly...
 
best volleys overall mc enroe .....we talking about best volleys or are we talking the most technically according to us sounds volleying techniques or most pleasing to the eyes ...best volley by far Mc enroe although the guy is a jerk ....edberg if we wanted to be picky would be the best backhand volley ...i cant believe someone said edberg forehand volley was a great one ..nope it was simply good ...his forehand volley was prone to mistake ..and i think his backhand volley was the best i ve ever seen ....between mc short preparation and hana mandlikova long preparation ...it was such a sweet backhand volley ...and forehand we ll go for mac ....i think he used a forehand grip hence his ability to get away with conventionally taught form .....but gosh he was a sweet sight ..those dinkers the angle ....he had a much better feel on his volley than the others ....he was looking for the angles .....of the oldies i dont know much ...Nastase ..Pancho ...but that was my small contribution
 
As a kid who learned to play in the early eighties I did idolize McEnroe. And yes, his mechanics (especially the serve) did me no favors when I tried to emulate him. As far as if he were in his prime today, I don't know if he get murdered. His serve wasn't that bad for his day (quite good if I remember). With modern racquets he'd probably have more pop even. He also had brilliant placement on his serve. His groundstrokes would be his greatest weakness (then as now) and with all the big hitters I think it would be ugly if he was stuck on the baseline (then as now). I wonder if he would still have the same touch with a modern powerful racquet.

I guess we do have the answer to that. How does he look on the senior tour (and I'm assuming he's using that new Maxply which isn't super powerful but more so that a JK woodie or the 200g).
 
cadfael_tex said:
As a kid who learned to play in the early eighties I did idolize McEnroe. And yes, his mechanics (especially the serve) did me no favors when I tried to emulate him. As far as if he were in his prime today, I don't know if he get murdered. His serve wasn't that bad for his day (quite good if I remember). With modern racquets he'd probably have more pop even. He also had brilliant placement on his serve. His groundstrokes would be his greatest weakness (then as now) and with all the big hitters I think it would be ugly if he was stuck on the baseline (then as now). I wonder if he would still have the same touch with a modern powerful racquet.

I guess we do have the answer to that. How does he look on the senior tour (and I'm assuming he's using that new Maxply which isn't super powerful but more so that a JK woodie or the 200g).
Click to expand...

But in the senior tour, nobody hits as hard & flat as Federer or as hard & spiny like Nadal...So even if McEnroe still manages to drop/stop volleys, it's because his competition in the senior level cannot compare close to what fiery Federer and Nadal have on their groundstrokes.
 
True ctbmar, but he's not in his prime either. Any model has a point where it breaks down. As it is, it's one of those what-ifs that are hard to know.
 
Aykhan, I think Sampras had a great forehand volley and pretty good stop volleys.

But I still go with Edberg. I voted for him and I see his votes are creeping up on Mr McEnroe.
 
cadfael_tex said:
True ctbmar, but he's not in his prime either. Any model has a point where it breaks down. As it is, it's one of those what-ifs that are hard to know.
Click to expand...

Yes, the "what ifs" are hard to justify...
Based on modern racket technology,
if a Peak/Prime Edberg faces a Peak/Prime Federer or Nadal, Edberg stands a better chance than a Peak/Prime McEnroe against Federer or Nadal.
Edberg when he was no.1, his net play was awesome and devastating...
 
ctbmar,
the senior tour has plenty of players who hit hard or with extreme spin:Courier, Pioline, Muster, Becker, Bruguera, Becker, Krajieck. Many of these guys were on tour in '02. Nadal/Federer didn't invent tennis, you know.
Plus Mac is currently 46 years old, if he can hang with players half his age for just a set(Ancic, Murray) I think he'd do alright if he was 25, having grown up with modern equipment.
 
Hey,

No way Pete was better at the net than Pat R... Sorry Mate! Not even close!

Have a good one!@

Steve
 
It seemed to me that Sampras didn't have as much difficulty passing Rafter at net, than Rafter did Sampras. Don't think his volleys were that much better.
 
Kevin Patrick said:
ctbmar,
the senior tour has plenty of players who hit hard or with extreme spin:Courier, Pioline, Muster, Becker, Bruguera, Becker, Krajieck. Many of these guys were on tour in '02. Nadal/Federer didn't invent tennis, you know.
Plus Mac is currently 46 years old, if he can hang with players half his age for just a set(Ancic, Murray) I think he'd do alright if he was 25, having grown up with modern equipment.
Click to expand...

Yes, all these players Courier, Pioline, Muster, Becker, Bruguera, Becker, Krajieck, I have watched them "live" in the 80s, 90s. Firstly, do you agree that in the senior tour, not every senior player is playing their 100% best??? A majority of them are just playing the tour for more of a past-time, not trying to tear their opponents apart, having more fun, laughing and clowning around, unlike those competitive days in atp. The only very serious player on the senior tour is John McEnroe. So even if JMac can hang with his peers does not prove that he can take on Federer or Nadal, supposing JMac is also in his prime.

So in your opinion, who has a better chance against attacking baseline groundstrokes from Federer/Nadal?
Option 1: prime young McEnroe Serve & Volleying
Option 2: prime young Edberg Serve & Volleying
 
Sampras was good at the net because his great serve got him to the net with his opponent off balance. McEnroe was a great player primarily because of his great net play.
 
Kevin Patrick,

I Looked at the statistics of McEnroe.
JMac (born yr 1959) vs Lendl (born yr 1960) : 15-21
JMac vs Becker (born yr 1967) : 2-8
JMac vs Sampras (born yr 1971) : 0-3

These 3 players Lendl, Becker, Sampras are chosen for discussion because all 3 are around the same built, height and when all 3 players play from the baseline, they are similar with big serves, big forehands, good single backhands and seemed to be the natural predecessor/successor to each other. Federer is also included later in this thread since he also has the same height and playing traits to Lendl, Becker, Sampras.

Yes granted that JMac is getting older as he progressed from playing Lendl, then Becker, then Sampras...but it also shows that when the power of the groundstrokes increased or the firepower of the player increased, JMac had more difficulty to counter the powerful groundstrokes at the net, that's why he has bad win/loss with Lendl, worse win/loss with Becker, worst win/loss with Sampras, because Sampras has more powerful weapons to hurt JMac at the net, Boom Boom Becker has less power than Sampras but more than Lendl, Lendl being the least powerful amongst the three players. When these 3 players played against JMac, all 3 were primarily playing more from the baseline. When these 3 players are playing Edberg, Lendl & Sampras were primarily playing more from the baseline, while Becker was playing a mirror S&V game to counter Edberg, that's why Edberg had a good win/loss record against Lendl & Sampras' groundstroke game as compared to JMac had a poorer win/loss record against Lendl & Sampras' groundstroke game. If JMac (young & prime) plays Federer today, he will have a worse win/loss than against Sampras. Edberg (prime) vs Federer will be a more even contest. This example shows that as the power in the groundstrokes increased, JMac's volleys cannot handle these powerful groundies as well as Edberg's volleys.

Don't you find surprising that JMac can beat Becker in the senior tour and lose 2-8 when active in ATP? It only shows that Becker had too much beer and wild nights, not as serious on the senior tour as compared to a healthy serious fanatic like 46 yr old McEnroe...so you can't use the senior tour as a gauge to compare with their active performances in ATP.
 
JMac was probably the last top player to use a continental grip. As the game moved towards power topspin this grip became a liability. A continental grip is great when you playing the ball below waist height. By the mid-80s, the topspin generated by Lendl and Becker meant that JMac was having to play more and more balls at chest to shoulder height. It almost impossible to play these balls with a continental grip.

Interestingly, JMac always had a good record against Edberg. This was probably because Edberg was not a power player.
 
ctbmar said:
Strange, you never saw them play, but you voted for McEnroe...looks like some people look at the voting result and get swayed by the results, then they vote for the one that majority are voting...
Click to expand...

The results of the poll don't show up until after you have voted.
 
araghava said:
JMac was probably the last top player to use a continental grip. As the game moved towards power topspin this grip became a liability. A continental grip is great when you playing the ball below waist height. By the mid-80s, the topspin generated by Lendl and Becker meant that JMac was having to play more and more balls at chest to shoulder height. It almost impossible to play these balls with a continental grip.

Interestingly, JMac always had a good record against Edberg. This was probably because Edberg was not a power player.
Click to expand...

Edberg did not fair well against fellow S&V players like Becker. That's why early in their careers, due to a 7 yrs age gap, Prime JMac was leading 6-1 in the 1st half of their careers against younger inexperience Edberg, then Prime Edberg took over 5-1 in the next 2nd half of their careers against an aging McEnroe. So for this kind of scenerio, they are roughly equal with a slight edge going to JMac with a final win/loss of 7-6. So I disagree that JMac "always had a good record against Edberg"...that's not true.
 
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