Who is the better Hard court player, Davydenko or Nadal?

Who is the better Hard court player, Davydenko or Nadal?

  • Total voters
    117
When they actually play against each other Davy is better (h2h)

Nadal is better against the rest of the field than Davy.
 
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Steve0904 said:
What's your point here? Djokovic leads 5 slams to 3 on HC. That's trumps regardless what has happened at the USO or the Olympics although Nadal has some things on HC over Djokovic certainly.

Djokovic also has 3 WTF titles. And more titles at the majority of HC M1000.
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My point is that Nadal has proven that he can beat Djokovic on the biggest stages on hardcourt. He's also 3-0 at the Australian Open against Federer, and managed to end Federer's dominance at Wimbledon. Meanwhile, Nadal at the French Open is 6-0 against Djokovic and 5-0 against Federer.

Nadal's record on clay might be overwhelmingly dominant, and others are better than him on hardcourt, but Nadal can still beat those superior hardcourt players on the biggest hardcourt stages, and has proven it multiple times. At the French Open, Federer and Djokovic lose against Nadal time and time and time again.
 
Mustard said:
My point is that Nadal has proven that he can beat Djokovic on the biggest stages on hardcourt. He's also 3-0 at the Australian Open against Federer, and managed to end Federer's dominance at Wimbledon. Meanwhile, Nadal at the French Open is 6-0 against Djokovic and 5-0 against Federer.

Nadal's record on clay might be overwhelmingly dominant, and others are better than him on hardcourt, but Nadal can still beat those superior hardcourt players on the biggest hardcourt stages, and has proven it multiple times. At the French Open, Federer and Djokovic lose against Nadal time and time and time again.
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Why do you bring up other surfaces when we're talking about HC here? Jeez you're annoying. :roll:
 
Mustard said:
My point is that Nadal has proven that he can beat Djokovic on the biggest stages on hardcourt. He's also 3-0 at the Australian Open against Federer, and managed to end Federer's dominance at Wimbledon. Meanwhile, Nadal at the French Open is 6-0 against Djokovic and 5-0 against Federer.

Nadal's record on clay might be overwhelmingly dominant, and others are better than him on hardcourt, but Nadal can still beat those superior hardcourt players on the biggest hardcourt stages, and has proven it multiple times. At the French Open, Federer and Djokovic lose against Nadal time and time and time again.
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Nadal has never been able to beat Djokovic at AO, his best slam. So, you skewed things. Nadal also has twice as many chances to beat Djokovic, so you can't you HC vs clay since it's 2vs1 ratio. You have to use AO vs FO. So, Nadal hasn't beaten Djokovic either, so it makes no difference.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Why do you bring up other surfaces when we're talking about HC here? Jeez you're annoying. :roll:
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I've told you, on hardcourt, Nadal has beaten the superior hardcourt players on the biggest hardcourt stages. He's beaten Federer in 3 Australian Open matches, and he's beaten Djokovic in 2 US Open matches.
 
Mustard said:
I've told you, on hardcourt, Nadal has beaten the superior hardcourt players on the biggest hardcourt stages. He's beaten Federer in 3 Australian Open matches, and he's beaten Djokovic in 2 US Open matches.
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So what? Federer and Djokovic are still the better/greater HC players. You're just a typical Nadal fan obsessed with H2H. Why are nearly all Nadal fans like that?
 
Djokovic2011 said:
So what? Federer and Djokovic are still the better/greater HC players. You're just a typical Nadal fan obsessed with H2H. Why are nearly all Nadal fans like that?
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It is the stat that favours their God. So they constantly bring it up.

Mustard reminds me of Octrobrina in terms of quality of posts, tennis knowledge and Nadal worship.
 
Mustard said:
That's true, but he came close in a match where Djokovic dominated in the stats. The US Open is hardcourt too, by the way, or does that not count now?
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No, I didn't say it doesn't count. Just that it's misleading. It looks like Rafa beat Djokovic at his best slam and Djokovic couldn't do that with Rafa, which is not the case.

AO is very different court than USO. So, actually we shouldn't say HC. HC has a lot more variations, HC is actually 3 different surfaces. Indoor fast, outdoor slow and outdoor fast.

So, it's very misleading saying people can't beat Rafa on clay, but he can beat then on HC, when he has 3 times as many chances, since there are three surfaces.

Also you forget how Djokovic beat Nadal in their only W final and grass is arguably Nole's worse surface.
 
Nadal has 3 HC Slams, Nole has 5. Nadal has 0 WTF's, Nole has 3. Nadal has 8 HC Masters 1000, Nole has 15. Nadal has 16 HC titles in total(and still hasn't defended one), Nole has 36. Have several seats Mustard.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Nadal has 3 HC Slams, Nole has 5. Nadal has 0 WTF's, Nole has 3. Nadal has 8 HC Masters 1000, Nole has 15. Nadal has 16 HC titles in total(and still hasn't defended one), Nole has 36. Have several seats Mustard.
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Also Nole even leads the h2h vs Nadal :).

But somehow Rafa was able to beat Nole at HC, but Nole wasn't able to beat Rafa at RG, so this proves Rafa is better HC player.

Mustard logic :).
 
jg153040 said:
So, you skewed things. Nadal also has twice as many chances to beat Djokovic, so you can't you HC vs clay since it's 2vs1 ratio. You have to use AO vs FO.
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Djokovic has had 6 chances to beat Nadal at RG and lost them all. Nadal had 4 chances to beat Novak on hard court and won half of them.

It doesn't mean Nadal is a better HC player. It means he's better at toppling great players on their preferred surface and better at defending his own preferred surface.
 
Mr.Snrub said:
Djokovic has had 6 chances to beat Nadal at RG and lost them all. Nadal had 4 chances to beat Novak on hard court and won half of them.

It doesn't mean Nadal is a better HC player. It means he's better at toppling great players on their preferred surface and better at defending his own preferred surface.
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But, Nadal still didn't beat Djokovic at AO. So, it's not like he is better in toppling palyers.

Djokovic also won their only W final. Djokovic also won WTF final vs Federer, W final vs Federer. So, Djokovic is the one great at toppling good players on their surfaces.

After Federer of course. Fed defeated his peers in their best slams, while his peers couldn't do that to him.
 
jg153040 said:
(3)But, Nadal still didn't beat Djokovic at AO. So, it's not like he is better in toppling palyers.

(1)Djokovic also won their only W final. (2)Djokovic also won WTF final vs Federer, W final vs Federer. So, Djokovic is the one great at toppling good players on their surfaces.

(4)After Federer of course. Fed defeated his peers in their best slams, while his peers couldn't do that to him.
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(1) Yes grass is Nadal's best surface, not clay :)
(2) Yes he's great at waiting until people are near the end of their career to topple them over.
(3) So Djokovic's best surface is plexicushion, not hard court...got it. Good thing barely any tourneys are played on it then ;)
(4)
215528321_C2GLH-X3.jpg
 
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Mustard said:
You must really like those pints of bitter :)

By the way, the majors are run under the auspices of the ITF, not the ATP.
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Djokovic would have had great chances of beating Nadal at the USO between 07-09 had he not always been in Federer's half of the draw.
 
Mr.Snrub said:
(1) Yes grass is Nadal's best surface, not clay :)
(2) Yes he's great at waiting until people are near the end of their career to topple them over.
(3) So Djokovic's best surface is plexicushion, not hard court...got it. Good thing barely any tourneys are played on it then ;)
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Is there nothing about Nole's career achievements so far that you give him any credit for?
 
Mr.Snrub said:
(1) Yes grass is Nadal's best surface, not clay :)
(2) Yes he's great at waiting until people are near the end of their career to topple them over.
(3) So Djokovic's best surface is plexicushion, not hard court...got it. Good thing barely any tourneys are played on it then ;)
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Well, Rafa has 2 USO titles, Nole has 4 plexi slams. So, yeah plexi is Nole's best slam.

What do you barely any tourneys are on plexi? Isn't AO enough? How many slams are on grass or on clay? One.

So, saying Nole has only one best slam and making fun of it is crazy. Rafa also has only one best slam.

But Federer has 3 best slams + indoor micro slam.
 
jg153040 said:
Well, Rafa has 2 USO titles, Nole has 4 plexi slams. So, yeah plexi is Nole's best slam.

What do you barely any tourneys are on plexi? Isn't AO enough? How many slams are on grass or on clay? One.

So, saying Nole has only one best slam and making fun of it is crazy. Rafa also has only one best slam.

But Federer has 3 best slams + indoor micro slam.
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I'm not making fun of Nole for being the best on plexicushion. I'm making fun of you for acting like HC in general isn't his domain.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Djokovic would have had great chances of beating Nadal at the USO between 07-09 had he not always been in Federer's half of the draw.
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Before 2011, I would have been confident of Nadal winning any best of 5 sets match against Djokovic, anywhere and on any surface. 2011 Djokovic took me by surprise too.
 
Mustard said:
Before 2011, I would have been confident of Nadal winning any best of 5 sets match against Djokovic, anywhere and on any surface. 2011 Djokovic took me by surprise too.
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Like you were confident when he faced Murray in the 2008 USO SF? And a year later against Del Potro? Fanboys gonna fanboy, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......
 
Mr.Snrub said:
I'm not making fun of Nole for being the best on plexicushion. I'm making fun of you for acting like HC in general isn't his domain.
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USO isn't Nole's domain. But, if you say that we don't count only slams, then Nole did beat Rafa in clay finals too.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Nah, Djokovic earned more points at the both the Slams and the Davis Cup last year so they made absolutely the right choice in fact.
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It was already pointed out that it's not a straight up "how many ITF points did you earn?" award. Why is it that the more uninformed you are, the more confident you sound?

Straight from the horse's mouth:

Novak Djokovic narrowly edges out Rafael Nadal to become Men’s World Champion thanks to his consistency at the Grand Slam tournaments and year-end performances. The 26-year-old won his third successive Australian Open title, and was a finalist at Wimbledon and the US Open and a semifinalist at Roland Garros. He won seven titles during the year, including the ATP World Tour Finals, and was unbeaten in seven singles rubbers as Serbia reached the Davis Cup Final.
Read more at http://www.itftennis.com/news/163361.aspx#ZSO51luublfyEozb.99
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Like you were confident when he faced Murray in the 2008 USO SF? And a year later against Del Potro? Fanboys gonna fanboy, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......
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You expected Murray to beat Nadal at the 2008 US Open when Nadal had won 54 of his previous 56 matches, and was 5-0 against Murray in their head-to-head?

Djokovic2011 said:
Nah, Djokovic earned more points at the both the Slams and the Davis Cup last year so they made absolutely the right choice in fact.
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2 majors to 1 major trumps any of that, especially when Nadal won both their matches in the majors on top.
 
Mr.Snrub said:
It was already pointed out that it's not a straight up "how many ITF points did you earn?" award. Why is it that the more uninformed you are, the more confident you sound?

Straight from the horse's mouth:

Novak Djokovic narrowly edges out Rafael Nadal to become Men’s World Champion thanks to his consistency at the Grand Slam tournaments and year-end performances. The 26-year-old won his third successive Australian Open title, and was a finalist at Wimbledon and the US Open and a semifinalist at Roland Garros. He won seven titles during the year, including the ATP World Tour Finals, and was unbeaten in seven singles rubbers as Serbia reached the Davis Cup Final.
Read more at http://www.itftennis.com/news/163361.aspx#ZSO51luublfyEozb.99
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Not sure which part of this post actually contradicts what I said.
 
Mustard said:
You expected Murray to beat Nadal at the 2008 US Open when Nadal had won 54 of his previous 56 matches, and was 5-0 against Murray in their head-to-head?
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I meant if both Murray and Del Potro could beat Nadal in the semi-finals those years, what makes you think that Nole couldn't? You knew fine well what I meant anyway, you're just being annoying as always.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Not sure which part of this post actually contradicts what I said.
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That the decision is based entirely on ITF points.

Do you blackout when you post or something:

Nah, Djokovic earned more points at the both the Slams and the Davis Cup last year so they made absolutely the right choice in fact.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I meant if both Murray and Del Potro could beat Nadal in the semi-finals those years, what makes you think that Nole couldn't? You knew fine well what I meant anyway, you're just being annoying as always.
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I didn't say that Djokovic couldn't beat Nadal, only that I would have been very confident of Nadal beating Djokovic over best of 5 sets on any surface and at any venue before 2011.
 
Mr.Snrub said:
That the decision is based entirely on ITF points.

Do you blackout when you post or something:

Nah, Djokovic earned more points at the both the Slams and the Davis Cup last year so they made absolutely the right choice in fact.
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And Nole did earn more ITF points so what's the problem?
 
Djokovic2011 said:
And Nole did earn more ITF points so what's the problem?
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Because there's no fixed criteria and it's not based on who won the most ITF points. They make a judgement call based on what they feel like. I bolded it in my first post. Nole's end of the year performance was part of their reasoning. I.e. Beijing/Shanghai/Paris/WTF. All non-ITF events.

If they can factor that in then why not rankings points, who won more masters, who won the most slams.
 
Mr.Snrub said:
Because there's no fixed criteria and it's not based on who won the most ITF points. They make a judgement call based on what they feel like. I bolded it in my first post. Nole's end of the year performance was part of their reasoning. I.e. Beijing/Shanghai/Paris/WTF. All non-ITF events.

If they can factor that in then why not rankings points, who won more masters, who won the most slams.
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They probably thought that Djokovic was more deserving given that Nadal flunked out at two of the year's majors(yes, a DNP gives you nothing) whereas Nole was ultra consistent, reaching at least the SF at all four. Anyway if you feel so aggrieved about it, take it up with them.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
There's a lot to be said for overall consistency throughout the year and the ITF clearly agrees with me.
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Consistency does not trump titles and winning the biggest matches. Nadal was the best player of 2013. The ATP got it right, and the ITF got it wrong.
 
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