Who is the greater outdoor player, Federer, Nadal or Djokovic?

Thoughts?


  • Total voters
    79

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Djokovic has the slam count, and has won every big outdoor title multiple times, including at least three slams at each venue.

Nadal has the masters series count, and he has also won more titles than anyone outdoors and leads the H2H with both Federer and Djokovic outdoors.

Federer had the highest concentration period of dominance outdoors, and only player to defend at least three different slams multiple times each

Poll added
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
All Slams are outdoor, BUT W 2018 (yes, I did it again) was played indoor in the SF between Nadovic. Had it been outdoor, who knows if the Slam tally would be 23-23.

With that being said, I think it's pretty close between Nadovic. Don't know if París Bercy is played indoor, and I don't know how many of those Novak has. If, excluding París Bercy and other indoor masters 1000 events, Novak still has more Masters 1000 than Rafa, then he could be rightfully deemed the outdoor GOAT.
 
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Hitman

Bionic Poster
All Slams are outdoor, BUT W 2018 (yes, I did it again) was played indoor in the SF between Nadovic. Had it been outdoor, who knows if the Slam talla would be 23-23.

With that being said, I think it's pretty close between Nadovic. Don't know if París Bercy is played indoor, and I don't know how many of those Novak has. If, excluding París Bercy and other indoor masters 1000 events, Novak still has more Masters 1000 than Rafa, then he could be rightfully be deemed the outdoor GOAT.

Djokovic has 7 Paris Bercy titles, which means he has 33 outdoor titles at Masters level, compared to 35 for Nadal.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic has the slam count, and has won every big outdoor title multiple times, including at least three slams at each venue.

Nadal has the masters series count, and he has also won more titles than anyone outdoors and leads the H2H with both Federer and Djokovic outdoors.

Federer had the highest concentration period of dominance outdoors, and only player to defend at least three different slams multiple times each

Poll added

Good question...agree with everything @Sport said, but would add that Fedal are both probably better wind players than Novak. In that sense, I would say Nadal had a slight edge.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Nadal is better than both outdoors.

Outdoors play gets impacted by heat and wind. Current Djokovic is very much affected by both.

But in the past Djokovic was resilient. He won 4 IW and 5 Miami between 2011 to 2016. That was incredibly tough and maybe sinner also won't be able to do the same.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
For what it's worth Djokovic has great outdoor winning %. He was at the top of the list until 2024 year end but as he ages his numbers are bound to decrease.


Federer though is more than 2 percentage points behind both Djokovic and Nadal so he is behind both for sure.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Nadal is better than both outdoors.

Outdoors play gets impacted by heat and wind. Current Djokovic is very much affected by both.

But in the past Djokovic was resilient. He won 4 IW and 5 Miami between 2011 to 2016. That was incredibly tough and maybe sinner also won't be able to do the same.

He never really liked wind, not that he couldn't adjust, but it wasn't his strong suit.
 

jl809

Legend
Nadal both overall and for slam peak. But I think Federer suffers a lot from there being no grass masters and no fast HC slam surfaces from 2010-2016. 2011, 2012, 2014 and 2015 might have looked very different if so
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
The one who won 24 Slams.

7tT3.gif
 

Neptune

Hall of Fame
The GOAT achieved significantly more through a much tougher path—not even close, to be honest.

Outdoor​
Slam
Slam F+​
Slam SF+​
Slam QF+​
Big Title
BT F+​
BT SF+​
BT QF+​
Nole
24
37
50
60
58
88
122
147
Rafa​
22​
30​
38​
47​
58​
82​
109​
136​

Outdoor​
vs Top5​
T5 Weight​
vs Top10​
T10 Weight​
vs T11+​
T11+ Weight​
vs All​
Nole
158 (93-65) 58.86%
13.90%
281 (188-93) 66.90%
24.71%
856 (772-84) 90.19%
75.29%
1137 (960-177) 84.43%
Rafa​
133 (84-49) 63.16%​
11.30%​
243 (163-80) 67.08%​
20.65%​
934 (831-103) 88.97%​
79.35%​
1177 (994-183) 84.45%​
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
The GOAT achieved significantly more through a much tougher path—not even close, to be honest.

Outdoor​
Slam
Slam F+​
Slam SF+​
Slam QF+​
Big Title
BT F+​
BT SF+​
BT QF+​
Nole
24
37
50
60
58
88
122
147
Rafa​
22​
30​
38​
47​
58​
82​
109​
136​

Outdoor​
vs Top5​
T5 Weight​
vs Top10​
T10 Weight​
vs T11+​
T11+ Weight​
vs All​
Nole
158 (93-65) 58.86%
13.90%
281 (188-93) 66.90%
24.71%
856 (772-84) 90.19%
75.29%
1137 (960-177) 84.43%
Rafa​
133 (84-49) 63.16%​
11.30%​
243 (163-80) 67.08%​
20.65%​
934 (831-103) 88.97%​
79.35%​
1177 (994-183) 84.45%​
Yes it's pretty close between him and Nadal. Nadal is ahead by some margin though.

Federed behind both.
 

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
All Slams are outdoor, BUT W 2018 (yes, I did it again) was played indoor in the SF between Nadovic. Had it been outdoor, who knows if the Slam talla would be 23-23.

With that being said, I think it's pretty close between Nadovic. Don't know if París Bercy is played indoor, and I don't know how many of those Novak has. If, excluding París Bercy and other indoor masters 1000 events, Novak still has more Masters 1000 than Rafa, then he could be rightfully deemed the outdoor GOAT.
Untestable, therefore irrelevant.
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Federer’s game is about precision and offensive shotmaking which can be greatly affected by wind and sun. Nadal’s game is all about margins and he loves slow surfaces which are all outdoor for the most part.

There’s no question that Federer is the best indoor player of the 3. Indoor tennis favors pure racquet skill.
 
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nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Nadal didn’t much like the night, Djokovic was never his best in the heat or certainly the wind, Federer had no issues with any of these things.
Federer has many issues when the going got tough. He is what 6-11 and something worse vs rafole.
 
feel like it pretty clearly can't be Nadal? he's GOATed on clay but he's not even a top tier ATG on grass or outdoor hard (~12% and ~50% of outdoor conditions respectively). should basically boil down to comparing the relative edges between Djokovic and Federer on outdoor hard, clay, and grass. i'm inclined to say they're basically even on the first, Djokovic is slightly ahead (1 tier) on the second (both questions of balancing floor vs ceiling), and then Federer is ahead by a larger margin on grass (at least 1 but maybe even 2 tiers). accounting for surface distribution and certainty of edges i'd go with Djokovic
 
lol we didn’t even make it a single page without these comments
what's your actual counter-argument? i'll grant aggregate peak at slams, but i don't see a case for overall as you said. don't see Nadal as good enough on serve-return or neutral-aggressive play to credibly rate him alongside the likes of Borg on grass and Sampras on outdoor hard
 

reaper

Legend
Djokovic has the slam count, and has won every big outdoor title multiple times, including at least three slams at each venue.

Nadal has the masters series count, and he has also won more titles than anyone outdoors and leads the H2H with both Federer and Djokovic outdoors.

Federer had the highest concentration period of dominance outdoors, and only player to defend at least three different slams multiple times each

Poll added
Unless some particular importance has suddenly been attached to indoor results this is essentially a GOAT thread. I believe one or two have existed previously.
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
feel like it pretty clearly can't be Nadal? he's GOATed on clay but he's not even a top tier ATG on grass or outdoor hard (~12% and ~50% of outdoor conditions respectively). should basically boil down to comparing the relative edges between Djokovic and Federer on outdoor hard, clay, and grass. i'm inclined to say they're basically even on the first, Djokovic is slightly ahead (1 tier) on the second (both questions of balancing floor vs ceiling), and then Federer is ahead by a larger margin on grass (at least 1 but maybe even 2 tiers). accounting for surface distribution and certainty of edges i'd go with Djokovic

what's your actual counter-argument? i'll grant aggregate peak at slams, but i don't see a case for overall as you said. don't see Nadal as good enough on serve-return or neutral-aggressive play to credibly rate him alongside the likes of Borg on grass and Sampras on outdoor hard

Time for you to go play angry birds...
 
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