Who is the greatest ever player in Miami?

Who is the Miami Open king?

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Kralingen

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
With Miami starting this week, I realized I don’t know who the Miami GOAT is. Most tournaments have a defined greatest player ever - Miami is one exception. Serena is clearly the best on the women’s side; however among men, the best in Miami comes down to two players and two players only.

Andre Agassi (6 titles, first in 1990, last in 2003 - 2 finals besides that)
Novak Djokovic (6 titles, first in 2007, last in 2016 - 1 final besides that)

In fact, the ties don't end there. Both have the exact same winning percentage (86%) and both have stretches of winning 2 and 3 in a row.

You literally could not pick two more similar players at any tournament if you tried.

So, who is greater at Key Biscayne? Andre, or Novak?

Novak's timeline-
image.png

Andre's timeline-
image.png
 
Fraud in nighttime conditions, who cares in daytime conditions?

jk jk

Maybe Novak based on some of his wins there (2011 was very impressive) but to be honest I haven't seen very much of Andre at Miami. Apparently he won 17 points in a row against 1995 Sampras one time according to Wiki so that's pretty cool.
 
Agassi does have two iconic wins, beating Edberg for his first big title in 1990, and then confirming his AO win by beating the BOAT PETE in ‘95.

However the rest were pretty weak, ‘96 Goran retired only 3 games into the first set, ‘01 had Jean Michael Gambill in the final, ‘02 did have Rios and Federer but neither were in peak form (Federer was pretty good for his pre prime self though), and ‘03 beat Philippoussis and Moya.

Djokovic beat Nadal 3x there, Murray 4x (all in title winning runs) along with Federer once. 2016 probably his weakest win beating Goffin and Nishikori in the SFs+F.

I don’t think competition will be enough to separate the two really.
 
Kralingen said:
With Miami starting this week, I realized I don’t know who the Miami GOAT is. Most tournaments have a defined greatest player ever - Miami is one exception. Serena is clearly the best on the women’s side; however among men, the best in Miami comes down to two players and two players only.

Andre Agassi (6 titles, first in 1990, last in 2003 - 2 finals besides that)
Novak Djokovic (6 titles, first in 2007, last in 2016 - 1 final besides that)

In fact, the ties don't end there. Both have the exact same winning percentage (86%) and both have stretches of winning 2 and 3 in a row.

You literally could not pick two more similar players at any tournament if you tried.

So, who is greater at Key Biscayne? Andre, or Novak?

Novak's timeline-
image.png

Andre's timeline-
image.png
Click to expand...
Agassi by a slim margin. He has more finals than Novak.
 
Agassi did some elite vulturing from 01-03 though. Novak on the other hand dominated his prime and just doesn’t have the longevity due to not playing the tournament.

Surprised to see so many Andre votes.
 
Kralingen said:
Agassi did some elite vulturing from 01-03 though. Novak on the other hand dominated his prime and just doesn’t have the longevity due to not playing the tournament.

Surprised to see so many Andre votes.
Click to expand...
Stats don't give a damn about it. 2 finals > 1
 
I need to break this down to pick a winner.

Here goes:

Agassi:
59-10, .855 overall
4-3, .571 vs top 5
6-2 in finals
8-2 in semis

Djokovic:
44-7, .863 overall
7-1, .875 vs top 5
6-1 in finals
6-0 in semis

Djoker had a tougher path to the finals, yet was much better against the top 5.

I’m taking Djoker; the best slow hard court player of all time.
 
Kralingen said:
Agassi did some elite vulturing from 01-03 though. Novak on the other hand dominated his prime and just doesn’t have the longevity due to not playing the tournament.

Surprised to see so many Andre votes.
Click to expand...

Andre's post prime titles > Djoko's prime titles >>>>>>>> Djoko's post prime titles?
 
Both won 6 titles but there are a few differences. Agassi had to play 3 bo5 finals compared to ND playing only 1 (2007). Agassi defeated 9 future or prior GS champions en route to his six titles. This includes players as Courier, Federer, Sampras, Moya, and Edberg. ND did defeat 3 GS champions (Nadal 3x, Murray 4x, and a "green" Thiem). The 2002 version of Federer was still better than the 2016 version of Thiem. Both times Agassi lost in the final he took it to a deciding set while ND lost in straight sets.

Even in 1994 when Agassi lost the final to Sampras he defeated Becker, Edberg, and Rafter before losing in the final. Overall, I pick Agassi via photo finish.
 
6W, 2F, 2SF vs 6W, 1F, 0SF.

Pretty obvious. I'd say Djokovic had some better competition, but given achievements, Agassi is ahead.
 
So many coincidences.

They both won their first Masters (and first bigger career title) event in Miami, when they were just about to turn 20, and right after losing in Indian Wells finals.

Then later on they both won the tournament back to back during the time they ascended to world number 1 for the first time.

And to cap it all off, both of their last three titles in Key Biscayne were part of a threepeat.

Leaning slightly towards Agassi because of more deep runs. Djokovic's post-2016 history there (and IW as well) is a massive eyesore lol.
 
TheAssassin said:
So many coincidences.

They both won their first Masters (and first bigger career title) event in Miami, when they were just about to turn 20, and right after losing in Indian Wells finals.

Then later on they both won the tournament back to back during the time they ascended to world number 1 for the first time.

And to cap it all off, both of their last three titles in Key Biscayne were part of a threepeat.

Leaning slightly towards Agassi because of more deep runs. Djokovic's post-2016 history there (and IW as well) is a massive eyesore lol.
Click to expand...
Novak has quietly been mostly crapola at every masters since the Nole Slam/Becker days. Well, he’s still Djokovic, but I mean not willing to go the extra mile and expend energy in comebacks at Masters. ‘17/18 were obviously injury addled but you saw some uncharacteristically flat losses (Khachanov/Zverev in 2018 finals, RBA/Kohl/Med in 2019, Evans MC ‘21).

Basically the only masters you’re guaranteed to see a fully firing Djokovic is Rome and maybe Shanghai/Paris, but the rest are close to mailed in, outright skipped, or experimenting for an upcoming slam. Obviously COVID had an impact but he definitely takes masters less seriously than his prime.
 
Kralingen said:
Novak has quietly been mostly crapola at every masters since the Nole Slam/Becker days. Well, he’s still Djokovic, but I mean not willing to go the extra mile and expend energy in comebacks at Masters. ‘17/18 were obviously injury addled but you saw some uncharacteristically flat losses (Khachanov/Zverev in 2018 finals, RBA/Kohl/Med in 2019, Evans MC ‘21).

Basically the only masters you’re guaranteed to see a fully firing Djokovic is Rome and maybe Shanghai/Paris, but the rest are close to mailed in, outright skipped, or experimenting for an upcoming slam. Obviously COVID had an impact but he definitely takes masters less seriously than his prime.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess that's understandable when you have more titles than anybody else in history and have won all of them at least twice! :cool:
 
Kralingen said:
Novak has quietly been mostly crapola at every masters since the Nole Slam/Becker days. Well, he’s still Djokovic, but I mean not willing to go the extra mile and expend energy in comebacks at Masters. ‘17/18 were obviously injury addled but you saw some uncharacteristically flat losses (Khachanov/Zverev in 2018 finals, RBA/Kohl/Med in 2019, Evans MC ‘21).

Basically the only masters you’re guaranteed to see a fully firing Djokovic is Rome and maybe Shanghai/Paris, but the rest are close to mailed in, outright skipped, or experimenting for an upcoming slam. Obviously COVID had an impact but he definitely takes masters less seriously than his prime.
Click to expand...
Pretty much, won more Slams than Masters over the last five years, 8 > 7. Not even participating at eight of the last eleven didn't help either.

Something ironic in the fact that his most successful Masters in this period alongside Paris is the one that he was unsuccessfully chasing for most of his career. Mad Lad being possessed actually denied him a threepeat there lol.
 
Kralingen said:
With Miami starting this week, I realized I don’t know who the Miami GOAT is. Most tournaments have a defined greatest player ever - Miami is one exception. Serena is clearly the best on the women’s side; however among men, the best in Miami comes down to two players and two players only.

Andre Agassi (6 titles, first in 1990, last in 2003 - 2 finals besides that)
Novak Djokovic (6 titles, first in 2007, last in 2016 - 1 final besides that)

In fact, the ties don't end there. Both have the exact same winning percentage (86%) and both have stretches of winning 2 and 3 in a row.

You literally could not pick two more similar players at any tournament if you tried.

So, who is greater at Key Biscayne? Andre, or Novak?

Novak's timeline-
image.png

Andre's timeline-
image.png
Click to expand...
Tough one this. I'd go for Agassi as I feel the 90s was the toughest era depth wise. However I feel Djokovic would be a terrible match up for Andre as he preferred attacking players not fellow counter punchers with elite groundies . His record v Courier a good example
 
Kralingen said:
With Miami starting this week, I realized I don’t know who the Miami GOAT is. Most tournaments have a defined greatest player ever - Miami is one exception. Serena is clearly the best on the women’s side; however among men, the best in Miami comes down to two players and two players only.

Andre Agassi (6 titles, first in 1990, last in 2003 - 2 finals besides that)
Novak Djokovic (6 titles, first in 2007, last in 2016 - 1 final besides that)

In fact, the ties don't end there. Both have the exact same winning percentage (86%) and both have stretches of winning 2 and 3 in a row.

You literally could not pick two more similar players at any tournament if you tried.

So, who is greater at Key Biscayne? Andre, or Novak?

Novak's timeline-
image.png

Andre's timeline-
image.png
Click to expand...
Agassi.
 
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