Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
It just tears my ass apart to know that people think this way.
To know that you don't know my name.
To know that you don't know my name.
Who is the more successful athlete, Rafa Nadal on clay in tennis or Leo Messi in football?
- Thread starter Megafanoftennis100
- Start date
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Even my little brain understands that the first post and the thread in itself is bogus because football has to be compared with tennis as a whole, there is no comparison of football vs clay in particular. Why isn't your thick brain able to understand this ?
Asking if Messi's football is better or Nadal's clay is like asking whether Messi's body is fitter or Nadal's heart is fitter ? Does that register in your brain?
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Megafanoftennis100
Semi-Pro
WOAH, I did not expect the poll to be so one-sided in favour of Nadal on clay... I guess people here have little respect for Messi or the difficulty of football.
On that note, how about another one?:
Federer in tennis on grass (2003-2009, 2012, 2017) vs Jerome Boateng in football
On that note, how about another one?:
Federer in tennis on grass (2003-2009, 2012, 2017) vs Jerome Boateng in football
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Apples and Oranges comparison.
Boxers & other combat fighters are the embodiment of athleticism, can't compare non combat athletes with them, however Lebron for his size is easily the winner in that 6'6 nd above segment....
A less weird comparison would be ..... .Usian Bolt or Lebron James ....
A
ALCARAZWON
Guest
Megafanoftennis100
Semi-Pro
Wait, do you mean at AO or tennis overall?
If you mean AO, then it may be a somewhat worthy comparison, but Messi wins for sure.
If you man tennis overall, absolutely not. Even Jerome Boateng is better at football than Djokovic is at tennis. Boateng in football > Djokovic in tennis
2011/2015 Djokovic might also be a worthy comparison though.
Djokovic and Nadal play tennis, not clay.
In tennis Djokovic is the best.
Football.... They don't have clay football. Football is football. Tennis is tennis. You can't just pick a surface.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
We know lol, you would have never made the thread.
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
Who is Leo Messi?
AlecG
Semi-Pro
Yeah I think "who is more dominant" would be a better way to phrase it. Honestly still too close to call for me. No one comes close to Nadal on clay, and no one comes close to Messi on grass (sorry Fedovic).
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
That is telling you who is more popular
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
AlecG
Semi-Pro
If you're talking about skill then we can compare to any of the big three.
Nadal is very skillful but also relies on raw strength and insane topspin on the clay.
Novak isn't just the guy who hits the hardest without errors. He also has incredible precision that almost no other pro has achieved.
And Federer is basically in his own league on his type of artistry.
I would agree Messi is ahead of both, but when comparing to Nadal on clay we are talking about dominance, not skill, otherwise it's no contest.
But even when it comes to dominance I think it's pretty close.
Just listen to any serious pro talking about Messi and how far he was ahead of everyone else, despite the fact that it's a much more competitive sport, with far more competitors getting paid at a pro level. In that context the number of trophies Messi has and his dominance on the field is comparable at least.
dadadas
Semi-Pro
Nadal for consistency on a surface (14 RG) and Messi for peak throughout a season (73 Goals in 60 Games)
Nadal's reign at Roland Garros > Barcelona's dominance in La Liga.
Messi's best season in terms of goal scoring or his sextuple season > Nadal's best clay season
As for wow factor, Messi
in tennis, only Federer can make the audience say wow.
Nadal's reign at Roland Garros > Barcelona's dominance in La Liga.
Messi's best season in terms of goal scoring or his sextuple season > Nadal's best clay season
As for wow factor, Messi
in tennis, only Federer can make the audience say wow.
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dadadas
Semi-Pro
There is no comparision between tennis & soccer in terms of competition level. Top 3000 in soccer are millionaires while tennis has only about top 300 that can be classified as full time professionals. Tennis has always been an elitist sport.
dadadas
Semi-Pro
Also World Cup is a darn huge competition. You are talking about the competition that receives the eyeballs from the biggest nations on the planet. Japan (120m), US (330m) & Mexico (120m), populous European nations (around 300m), Brazil & Argentina (260 m combined). Roland Garros was never gonna be as big as World Cup. Only Olympics can compete against World Cup for global viewership.
How did you come up with 3000 current soccer players being millionaires? I kind of ran this through my head. Im not really doubting the number but where did that come from? I know plenty make a lot of money but where did that stat come from?
Are you saying 2500 from the top 5 leagues make a million a year or more or are millionaires? Cause just looking up Bundesliga for example about 200 guys make over a million a year. And same with Seri A and LA Liga. So thats a little more than 600. However thats just guys in those three leagues who are making over a million a year. I would actually bet there are more than 3000 pro soccer players who are millionaires. Cause thats just one year salary. Some dude making 500 grand for 8 years or something is a millionaire as well.
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dadadas
Semi-Pro
Source: https://www.capology.com/
Football Stats, Tables & Results | Soccer Stats - FootyStats
World's most in-depth Football Stats / Soccer Stats site. Over/Under, Corners, Match H2H, Tables, Results, HT/FT, Goals, Top Scorers, In-Play & more. We cover 1000+ soccer competitions across the globe.
footystats.org
You cant take the average yearly salary. Thats an average from the top paid guys like Kane or whomever to the lowest guy in that league. This gives you a better idea.
Source: https://www.capology.com/
Football Stats, Tables & Results | Soccer Stats - FootyStats
World's most in-depth Football Stats / Soccer Stats site. Over/Under, Corners, Match H2H, Tables, Results, HT/FT, Goals, Top Scorers, In-Play & more. We cover 1000+ soccer competitions across the globe.
https://www.capology.com/es/la-liga/salaries/ This tells you each players salary in each league. Anyway, I would say there are way more than 3000 millionaires playing soccer in the world. Because even if you dont make a million a year you can easily be a millionaire.
KohlschreiberFan
Rookie
Cross-sports comparisons are kind of pointless. Especially team sports vs individual sports.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Football is not more difficult than tennis. Thing is maybe, that the talent pool here us way bigger, so becoming semi-pro (whatever that is) is tougher.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
My team FC Cologne which is a bad first division team always fighting to stay in the league, pays even the last bench-sitter around 300k a year, so thar guy even can be a millionaire. The better teams in Germany one can be sure, next to every guy in the squad is a millionaire. Then you have all the other leagues like Italy, Spain, England etc and even in the second divisions there will be some millionaires. World-wide definitely way more than 3000.
Yea I just looked up Koln. You have 8 guys on that team making over a million a year and 14 total making over 500 grand a year. And your payroll really aint that huge. Your highest paid guy is making 3.4 million.
AlecG
Semi-Pro
Yep, it's terrible. And in tennis you have to pay to fly around the world doing futures and challengers to earn enough points to start getting paid, instead of playing in your home city in front of a home crowd like footballers do every second week of the year. It's the worst organised major sport by far. I think "elitist" is almost too generous.
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DonMcEnroe
New User
AlecG
Semi-Pro
In tennis it's harder to get paid well for playing, because so few get paid well for playing.
But in soccer, it's much less likely to become a top 1000 player, because there is so much more competition because it's a more popular sport AND they're competing for paid jobs at that level in soccer.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
So that makes at least 14 millionaires at Cologne. In Bundesliga there will be at the very least 300 millionaires. In second division there will be many as well, we have to keep in mind, that there are many veterans as well who now play second division but used to play at bigger clubs, so we have 400 millionaires in Germany alone. Italy, England, Spain will have more such that we get to roughly 2000 in those big leagues alone. Then however, in almost all other leagues (Portugal, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Russia, China, Brazil etc.) you will have countless more millionaires at least in the bigger clubs. So all over the world there will be at the very least 5000 millionaires I would estimate.
AlecG
Semi-Pro
There are also 5000 millionaires who play tennis. The difference is they were born with that money and didn't make it from playing tennis
According to the Capology website https://www.capology.com/uk/championship/salaries/ , a total of 232 players in the Portuguse Primeira Liga (52), Dutch Eredivise (36), and English Championship (144) are currently earning salaries of USD 1 million per year or more.
I've deliberately chosen those 3 leagues, as you can view the details for them on the website for free - the same information for most other leagues is locked unless you pay for an account which clearly I'm not going to do !
The English Championship stat is particularly remarkable to me. It is only the 2nd tier league in England, and in terms of money and glamour is not even in the same stratosphere as the top tier and global behemoth that is the Premier League (the financial gulf between the two leagues has grown wider and wider over time). Yet still so many players it in, many of whom might never play a single minute of Premier League football, are earning big bucks. Even without considering the big 5 European leagues, it's a safe bet thousands of players in other leagues will be earning 7 figure annual salaries (I know for a fact that a good number in Liga MX in Mexico will be), of course with the amount varying slightly depending on whether you use USD, Euros, GBP etc. Probably a decent number of players in the 2nd tier in Germany, the Bundesliga 2 (the only other second tier league that is comparable to the Championship in terms of attendances, coverage etc.) are earning very good money, especially with some very big, illustrious clubs having been relegated into it in recent years.
In general given that football has by far the deepest talent pool, with no other sporting coming close there, I think that football players can be underrated in comparisons vs. athletes from other sports. For example from a UK perspective, many people were rushing to declare Murray as the greatest British athlete of all-time in 2016.
Now it goes without saying that his achievements have been incredible. But I find it difficult to rank him ahead of the likes of George Best, Bobby Charlton, Kenny Dalglish (widely considered to be the greatest player in the history of Liverpool, who are in turn one of the greatest clubs in football) etc., or more recently (while he has been disgraced due to his conduct away from the sport), Ryan Giggs who played at a high level for a ridiculously successful Man Utd team for so long. Also while UK sporting success is not remotely comparable to US sporting success of course, given that Murray in tennis would be no greater than Jim Courier as well, I find it difficult to believe that no British athletes in history have been greater than Courier (who could walk down many streets in the US without being recognised despise his tremendous success).
I've deliberately chosen those 3 leagues, as you can view the details for them on the website for free - the same information for most other leagues is locked unless you pay for an account which clearly I'm not going to do !
The English Championship stat is particularly remarkable to me. It is only the 2nd tier league in England, and in terms of money and glamour is not even in the same stratosphere as the top tier and global behemoth that is the Premier League (the financial gulf between the two leagues has grown wider and wider over time). Yet still so many players it in, many of whom might never play a single minute of Premier League football, are earning big bucks. Even without considering the big 5 European leagues, it's a safe bet thousands of players in other leagues will be earning 7 figure annual salaries (I know for a fact that a good number in Liga MX in Mexico will be), of course with the amount varying slightly depending on whether you use USD, Euros, GBP etc. Probably a decent number of players in the 2nd tier in Germany, the Bundesliga 2 (the only other second tier league that is comparable to the Championship in terms of attendances, coverage etc.) are earning very good money, especially with some very big, illustrious clubs having been relegated into it in recent years.
In general given that football has by far the deepest talent pool, with no other sporting coming close there, I think that football players can be underrated in comparisons vs. athletes from other sports. For example from a UK perspective, many people were rushing to declare Murray as the greatest British athlete of all-time in 2016.
Now it goes without saying that his achievements have been incredible. But I find it difficult to rank him ahead of the likes of George Best, Bobby Charlton, Kenny Dalglish (widely considered to be the greatest player in the history of Liverpool, who are in turn one of the greatest clubs in football) etc., or more recently (while he has been disgraced due to his conduct away from the sport), Ryan Giggs who played at a high level for a ridiculously successful Man Utd team for so long. Also while UK sporting success is not remotely comparable to US sporting success of course, given that Murray in tennis would be no greater than Jim Courier as well, I find it difficult to believe that no British athletes in history have been greater than Courier (who could walk down many streets in the US without being recognised despise his tremendous success).
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RS
Bionic Poster
I was just messing a bit
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Thanks for that stat. Given that, my estimate of 5000 is likely still way too low. If 146 players in English championships earn a million per year we will likely have 300 millionaires there at least. And that is second tier division. In third division there will likely still be several around and Premier league it is safe to assume next to everyone is a millionaire, so for England alone we will get close to 1000 (definitely if we consider UK as a whole). The best of the best will earn millions in next to every league with at least a bit of football tradition (in addition to the ones i mentioned, Mexico, Uruguay, Argentina, US, Japan all those leagues will have a good number of millionaires as well).
As for the second part, it is close to ridiculous to assume that Murray is greater than guys like Best, Charlton, Beckham etc. I think when talking greatest there seems to be a bias towards individual sports compared to team sports. In Germany, for the longest time, Becker was considered the greatest if all times which at the very least should be debatable with Matthäus or Beckenbauer.
Incognito
Legend
Still Nadal!
Nadal beat a reigning french open champion on clay when he was just 15 years old. That’s even more impressive IMO.
Yea I just look up the MLS. Which has a salary cap. And there are still 75 guys making over a million a year. And over 200 making 500 grand or more.
dadadas
Semi-Pro
i found this interesting website
salarysport.com
in the 2nd division of England, Germany & Italy you can already find millionaires
in tennis maybe only the top 300 can make a living out of tennis.
Salary Sport | Comprehensive Salary Database for Sports Clubs & Players
How much do sports teams pay their players? Find team wage bills and player breakdowns in the most comprehensive sports salary database.
salarysport.com
in the 2nd division of England, Germany & Italy you can already find millionaires
in tennis maybe only the top 300 can make a living out of tennis.
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Cantconvert2MP
Rookie
Messi, and by far.
Football is not only the best, the most popular, but the level of virtuosoty in football is superior to tennis.
The level of competition in football is superior than in tennis.
Football is uber capitalism competion on uber steroid.
Football is not only the best, the most popular, but the level of virtuosoty in football is superior to tennis.
The level of competition in football is superior than in tennis.
Football is uber capitalism competion on uber steroid.
It’s hard to compare as you’re somewhat reliant on your team being good and Barcelona were pretty poor and one dimension for quite a bit of the 2010s.
However, I would vote for Nadal. His RG record is insane. It would be like Messi winning 7-8 CL or 15 La ligas. 4 CL, one in which he wasn’t a big factor 06 isn’t the best return but the competition is incredibly tough.
However, I would vote for Nadal. His RG record is insane. It would be like Messi winning 7-8 CL or 15 La ligas. 4 CL, one in which he wasn’t a big factor 06 isn’t the best return but the competition is incredibly tough.
So no team sports athlete can equal individual sports one? That's what you're saying!
Inflation helps tbfTennis forummers have this tendency of making tennis players look worse than they actually are.
When you look at how Tiafoe is making a million per year for just playing tennis, it means that he is a darn good tennis player. Not big 3 level but still darn good.
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