spottishwood
Hall of Fame
It still works but mainly on indoors and grass. Majority of the tour in slow HC and clay.
Who is the poineer of modern tennis?
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skaj
Legend
He used it as a surprise tactics, which tells you about the modern game.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
I think Pete was prototype of Federer . Pete could SnV at the same time had a great FH and a great ground game for 90s.
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
Fed was almost a pete type of player with a bit better ground game and worse net game. He needed to adjust his playing style a lot due to changing surfaces. Doesn't look like Early Fed at all these days
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
That's why I keep arguing that Fed would annihilate Med lol
Yep, but I think he was definitely a better volleyer than Fed from what I've seen. Fed has nicer racquet skills with slice/drop shots though without a doubt.
Agreed though Pete being just a servebot on here is one of the most gross misrepresentations I've ever seen. He straight up outplayed Chang, Kafelnikov, Agassi from the baseline multiple times, it was far from just his serve.
He was a Top 3/5 volleyer, one of the best FHs and shot tolerances in the 90s, and of course probably the best overall athlete in the 90s. Great footwork and explosiveness/speed which most players could only dream of.
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
Top 5 I'd say, with Mc, Edberg, Cash, Rafter over him and Becker ~ Sampras.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Pete was far better volleyer than Fed , when is say prototype it means doing away with what is not required and strengthening what is required for the era. Fed has a better bh , better ground game which was the need of post Sampras era.
So?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Honestly, Andre. He adapted very well to the 2000's era and his strokes even troubled the great Roger Federer.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Andre was not the prototype of modern player ,he Was a modern player . Imo , Andre is the only player from 90s who could win 8-12 slams post Sampras era. His game would definately suit post sampras era more than Sampras era.
Are OS frames part of the modern game though?
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
So, Andre
BGod
G.O.A.T.
For Agassi's day anything above 95 was OS. He of course used a 107 but 100 is fairly common and has been since Nadal became a mainstay.
Let's not forget 85-90 was standard until the 00s.
dje31
Professional
The key word in your post, that is sadly lacking in the modern game, is, "variety." "Elegance" comes in a close second.
The game has been reduced to blunt force trauma on the ball.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Yep. Would have actually taken a couple of USO's from Fed even though he couldn't do the same to Pete.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Lendl. He was the first to use the big serve, big FH combo to end points. In the past 30 years, dozens of other players have adopted that strategy, including Fed.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Didn't Connors called him pusher ?
ironically Connors was the one with a pillow forehand .
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
He could have collected many slams had he peaked when Hewitt did lol
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Lendl and Agassi would have loved the modern era conditions. They were born at the wrong times.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Technically, he did peak in the early 2000's.
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
His 2nd peak
. Won more slams in '99 - '03 than '92-'98
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
Didn't Connors called him pusher ?
Jimmy's name should have been there too
skaj
Legend
So, it means that serve and volley is not a significant part of the modern game.
skaj
Legend
I see a lot of Connors/Borg answers.
Lend more than Connors – big serve, lethal forehand, power, fitness and leaping court coverage(vs Connors’s flat hitting, small frame, intricate footwork).
Borg along with Connors was the first significant baseliner, his style’s influence is evident in some players’ games today like Nadal’s(the topspin, the fitness, the incredible defense, the tenacity) but that style is not predominant in the modern game.
Lend more than Connors – big serve, lethal forehand, power, fitness and leaping court coverage(vs Connors’s flat hitting, small frame, intricate footwork).
Borg along with Connors was the first significant baseliner, his style’s influence is evident in some players’ games today like Nadal’s(the topspin, the fitness, the incredible defense, the tenacity) but that style is not predominant in the modern game.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Lendl and Agassi basically Djokovic-level players if they were born in the late 80s instead of their own eras?
skaj
Legend
Embarrassing to watch...
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
True but not even Fedal could animate the crowd like these two could.
Thriller
Hall of Fame
Lendl. The first player to pioneer that big serve, big forehand uber-aggressive baseline game with the ability to hit clean winners from the baseline using immense power. Also the first male player (Navratilova was the first) to take diet, gymwork etc to the next level and make it an essential component of a professional tennis player. Introduced lots of new ideas like changing racquets with ball changes, which seemed eccentric and wasteful at the time ... now everyone does it. I think the only thing that didn't catch on was keeping sawdust in his pockets to keep his hands dry.
Seles for similar reasons. You can trace the Williams sisters directly back to Seles and look how they completely took over the game and forced everyone else to step up.
Seles for similar reasons. You can trace the Williams sisters directly back to Seles and look how they completely took over the game and forced everyone else to step up.
skaj
Legend
Lendl and Agassi basically Djokovic-level players if they were born in the late 80s instead of their own eras?
Not quite, Djokovic is a better mover, that's the crucial difference, I think.
He also serves better than Agassi. Andre's forehand is more lethal, but it's not like Novak's is not a weapon. The American is a better strategist, but in the brutal game that is today's tennis that's not too significant.
He returns better than Lendl, and his forehand-backhand combo is better overall(Lendl has a better forehand, but Djokoloco's forehand is more dangerous than Lendl's backhand).
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
lmao, That's true though
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
How are Bull and Djovak getting votes lmao. I added Fedalovic just to keep this thread in GPPD and not former pro section
The Fedfather
Legend
I'm not a tennis historian but from what I know it doesn't seem like tennis went through a revolution led by any particular player. The most drastic changes came from the changes of surfaces and/or equipment. Because even if, say, Borg or Lends were the first big champions to center their game around baseline rallying, it wasn't until the conditions started to fit this style of play more that it became predominant on the tour.
Court and Graf were fitness freaks as well though, yes even Court. Graf especially was a national champion level middle distance runner iirc.
skaj
Legend
The game has stagnated, or actually went a step back after the Williams era and their generation, which was the best ever. The sisters combined the power hitting of Seles and the speed of Graf, took it up a notch and added their killer serves to it. Nowadays, it's mostly just hard hitting, or defending, not the winning combo that Venus and Serena(and their peers like Clijsters, Henin, Dementieva...) had.
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
Well yeah, you do have a point. Changes were fueled by evolution of racquet tech.
spottishwood
Hall of Fame
Well WTA ain't watchable anymore. I stopped watching it after Henin retired. Don't even bother to check the scores now. The game has certainly gone backwards these days.
skaj
Legend
Agree about Court, but Graf came after Navratilova.
Also, I think that you have confused her with this lady: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Graf
Steffi was an incredible runner herself of course, one of the fastest we've seen on the WTA.
Thriller
Hall of Fame
Yes, of course there is fitness, but the off court work in the gym (strength and conditioning) etc was not common in tennis before Navratilova and then Lendl. They took things to the next level. Of course Graf had to step up if she wanted to take down Navratilova.
For me, everyone else's game (from that era) looks a bit old fashioned now in a way that Lendl's doesn't. I think because his style of play has been the most influential.
Lol, I didn’t even know there was a 2nd Stef Graf out there! That’s hilarious.Agree about Court, but Graf came after Navratilova.
Also, I think that you have confused her with this lady: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Graf
Steffi was an incredible runner herself of course, one of the fastest we've seen on the WTA.
I can’t find the article but I definitely have read that Graf trained with the German Olympic team and had a competitive 800m time at some point in the 80s, of course it could be a tall tale but she was a special athlete by any criterion.
skaj
Legend
I watched after Henin's retirement(Radwanska, Schiavone, Kuznetsova...) but in the last few years I do not bother checking women's matches unless Hsieh plays. I must say that I like Barti's style, at least compared to the rest.
skaj
Legend
Court also worked in the gym, what Martina brought I think is playing other sports in order to be a better tennis player and dieting. Just all-around physical preparation.
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