kiki, I value Vilas higher than both Bruguera and Kodes on clay.
Who is the Third Best Clay Court Player Ever?
- Thread starter Nadalgaenger
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kiki, I value Vilas higher than both Bruguera and Kodes on clay.
kiki, It means always pleasure to me to assist you against those who know a lot about current tennis but rather little about past tennis...
I also agree. In classic music we had several giants 200 years ago: Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert. What do we have now? Only a few "kakophonists" in sucession of Arnold Schönberg...
kiki, I don't doubt this.
Yes, and Europe is better than the USA in soccer, but in basketball it's the reverse. China is a lot better than the USA in diving, but way behind the USA in swimming.
Now if you combined all the nations in the world and pick a particular sport, then compare the quality to the past decades, you will notice there's an improvement in depth/strength.
TennisMaven
Banned
So what's the conclusion?
1) Borg
2) Nadal
3) Federer
1) Borg
2) Nadal
3) Federer
TennisMaven, Could it be that you over-rate Federer a bit on clay? Roger has about 15 Co.-contenders for a place among the top ten from Tilden and Cochet till Rosewall and Vilas. Place 3 for Roger is totally illusory.
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Humble forehand
New User
Apparenty there is a inscription in an ancient egyptian tomb complaining that the youth were corrupted and rude:
"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect
their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently
inhabit taverns and have no self control."
So as you can see every age has had the same fears as you are expressing now.
jean pierre
Professional
I agree. Vilas played 5 Grand Slam finals on clay, won 2, and won 46 tournaments on clay (record).
Humble forehand
New User
Ok my argumentation was based on the assumption that there are more players in the world today that in the 60s (which is definitely the case for my country) , however I´d be happy to retract if you can provide with data that suggest that the overall number in the 60s was similar of greater than today.
I dont think you can use the adjective "top" in this discussion, since "top" just means "amongst the x-percentage best players of an era".
Obviously the 10:1000 ratio was a gross exageration, just to make the argument clear. Apologies if this was not evident.
Yes, but Vilas' 46 clay court tournaments are only record in open era. Altogether Jaroslav Drobny seems to have the record winning about 100 clay tourneys.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Djokovic is.
Humble forehand, I value a player as a top player, an all-time great and so on if he has extraordinary skills, is dominating, excellent on all surfaces. Believe me: in the 1970s there were more such players than nowadays.
We had Laver, Rosewall, Gonzalez, Emerson, Stolle, Newcombe, Roche, Ashe, Okker, Smith, Nastase, Kodes, Orantes, Connors, Borg, Vilas...
kiki
Banned
that recolection of players is out of this world.And bring in Hoad and Panatta...
kiki
Banned
well, techno progress is great for somethings but kills other things that man kind used to achieve.I guess, we can´t ever have both of them.
Yes, and I forgot Gimeno and Gerulaitis,,,
kiki
Banned
...of course.Variety and class was the name of the game, just like in music...before techno rackets and techno music, spoilt by techno brains of people with techno hearts came over...WELCOME TO PROGRESS¡¡¡¡
Only 2 players from your list made the top 10.
Greatest Clay-Court Tennis Player Ever (Male)
1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Guga
4. Wilander
5. Lendl
6. Vilas
7. Federer
8. Bruguera
9. Agassi
10. Muster
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
No that is the only conclusion of a stupid *******/delusional Nadal hater like yourself. The conclusion of most people is more like:
1. Nadal
----huge gap----
2. Borg or Rosewall.
4. Lendl
5. Kuerten
6. Wilander
10-15 range. Federer
ROTFL at the very idea Nadal could be less than #1 on clay and Federer still in the top 3. Thanks for the great bit of comedy, you had me falling out of my chair with laughter at that one.
TennisMaven
Banned
Great, then glad you agree Federer > Sampras on grass
. Can't have it both ways now, can we
TennisMaven
Banned
Sure, but it's no different than the idiots who automatically place Nadal over Borg so easily.
I think it's absurd to say there's a "huge gap" between Nadal and Borg. 7 to 6 slams is not a "huge gap". A huge gap would be like Federer and Nadal on grass.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Nadal is placed over Borg due to his amazing accomplishments, the crazy numbers that he put together.
We can't do the same with Federer, because we always have to mention weak era and H2Hs when talking about Federer.
You should be aware of this.
TennisMaven
Banned
I'm talking about Federer over Sampras at Wimbledon. The same zealots who place Nadal over Borg on clay don't so easily want to put Fed over Sampras on grass! Fed had more consecutive and more finals and lead the H2H with Sampras on grass, YET Sampras is still better according to them because of their subjective idiocy.
Right. Since 2005, Fed had the weakest clay competition in history but Nadal had the toughest competition.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Even then weak era talk cannot be avoided by those that want to bring Federer down.
Right. Since 2005, Fed had the weakest clay competition in history but Nadal had the toughest competition.
Fed had the weakest competition everywhere, didn't you know? Nadal is the one who won those spartan titles. And Djokovic just cashed in with the King was severely weakened.
There are studies that intelligence has decreased since the 19th century...
Yes, a man who could force Björn Borg into five sets at Wimbledon must be mentioned as a top player.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Tanner beat Borg in 4 sets at the US Open just 2 months after their Wimbledon final.
I agree that Borg vs. Nadal on clay is a tough one.
Mustard, You are of course right.
Other people have their opinion too. There's no need to get your panties all in a bunch just because your idol didn't make the list.
Mighty F., You err: It's irrelevant if Rosewall is one of my idols. Even my toughest opponents would say that Muscles deserves a place in the all-time top ten of even top three on clay. Learn history, boy!
Rosewall won six clay majors, more than all other players with the exception of Nadal and Borg.
forzamilan90
Legend
Mustard
Bionic Poster
The French Championships didn't become a major until 1925. Have a look at the World Hard Court Championships, a major from 1912 to 1923.
forzamilan90
Legend
so what did he win then? It was still "a huge" tournament, so it's comparable to a major for its time.
forzamilan90, Your new darling seems to be Max Decugis. You "forget" that he did not win "open" French Championships (open to amateur foreigners)...
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
Without reading all the replies, I would say it would be Nadal, Borg and then Kuerten.
6-1 6-3 6-0
Banned
Comparable doesn't mean equal. Just like RFederer's World Tour Finals are just meaningless baubles on a dying Christmas tree. :lol:
The slams are what count. Not meaningless non-majors.
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