Who is the Third Best Clay Court Player Ever?

3rd greatest clay court player ever?

  • Lendl

    Votes: 4 17.4%

  • Rosewall

    Votes: 1 4.3%

  • Wilander

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Kuerten

    Votes: 4 17.4%

  • Vilas

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Muster

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Djokovic

    Votes: 12 52.2%

  • Federer

    Votes: 2 8.7%

  • Other (Explain)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    23
HAMMER77777 said:
Hes pretty close. I think hes the 5th best player now, overall. Just keep him away from the top 4, LOL, and hes unstoppable.:-?
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Did you fail to read the main thread.... The discussion is regarding history, not current year. The thread title and main OP was pretty specific. One would wonder why so many folks mention Borg, who's been retired for years.
 
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HAMMER77777 said:
I Know that. Im just Saying hes the 4th best player now. And i think third best clay ever.
1.Nadal
2.Fed
3.Ferer
4. Borg or some other Old Timer that i never saw play except on espn classic or so.
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OMG..... You have just made yourself look completely ignorant... The post was not about now, and only an ignorant poster would try to change argument. No way Federer even close to being as good as Borg on clay, and your statement seems like making up crap just to stir the pot.
 
bullfan said:
OMG..... You have just made yourself look completely ignorant... The post was not about now, and only an ignorant poster would try to change argument. No way Federer even close to being as good as Borg on clay, and your statement seems like making up crap just to stir the pot.
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Exactly. LMAO!! 38 years old my @rse!! :lol:

hammertime-o.gif
 
Drob said:
Love 'em both but the record belies their clay claims. Both did damage on pro tour but French Pro was played at Roland Garros from 1956 to'62 when Segura was still strong & he did not make a final. Gimeno's main clay title was '64 Geneva Gold Cup Trophy & Geneva &
Barcelona in '67. on the 1965 Trofeo Facis tour on clay he was only 11-7 I'm glad he won the '72 French but it was a much depleted field that year. Drob beat Sedgman for one of his two French and a British Hardcourt and Hoad for The Italian in '53 and at the British Hardcourts in '57 when Hoad was at peak and Drob 36 years old. I don't think you'd consider them "amateurs". 3 Italians, a couple of Monte Carlo and German championships and probably 80 or so clay titles. I would say that in Drob's heyday The amateurs were equal of pros because of depth and some great players. after 1956-57 the pros really became superior. But thanks - I'm sure my list could be improved a bit.
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Drob, Gimeno's greatest win was the 1966 Barcelona tournament where he beat both Rosewall and Laver. He was the No.3 claycourt player for several years: 1963 to 1968. In 1962 he was No.2 on clay.

I think there was no 1965 Trofeo Facis tour. Segura was semi-retired that year also.
 
Drob said:
Bobby One:


I know you like Segura and Gimeno. I have Segura and Sedgman almost equal in matches played through 1958, with each beating the other in big tournaments. I have Segura equal with Hoad in head to head in Hoad's first couple of years but losing by a 2-1 margin to Muscles during this time. Is that about right to your knowledge. What about with Trabert?

Gimeno - I have him beating Rosewall and Rocket back-to-back in the same tournament eight times. In the pro years, it looks like he won about one-third of the time against Laver, but never in a Pro Slam or other huge event, and beat Rosewall between one-third and 40 percent of the time not counting the 1963 World Championship Series where it looks like The Little Master carved him up good. These include three Gimeno victories over Rosewall at a Pro Slam and the '69 Australian. Do you concur with these estimates? What about his records against them in the Open Era? I figure as many as 40 total tiles for Andres, amateur, pro and Open (not counting 4-man tournaments). What's your estimate for Segura?
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Drob, Sorry for answering late. I just have overlooked your recent post.

Well researched. I guess Segura has won 30 to 35 tournament (not counting the many 1954 4 man events).
 
SpicyCurry1990 said:
This is the best list I have seen. I don't know anything about Wilding as I have not studied anyone pre-WWI, but I'll assume that is a fair placing for him as I agree 100% with all of the other spots.

Edit:
My own top 10 (post-WWI) would be:
1)Nadal
2)Borg
3)Rosewall
4)Cochet
5)Lendl
6)Wilander
7)Lacoste
8)Kuerten
9)Laver
10)Vilas

top 10 (open-era only):
1)Nadal
2)Borg
3)Lendl
4)Wilander
5)Kuerten
6)Vilas
7)Federer
8)Bruguera
9)Courier
10)Orantes
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Spicy, Regarding playing strength on clay I would rank Laver at No.4. Also Gimeno and Segura at No. 7 together with Hoad. Dan L has shown how great Hoad was on clay. Laver was only slightly weaker than Rosewall.
 
BeatlesFan said:
So two FO's for Novak blows doors off someone with 1 FO title but 39 other clay titles? Nobody who lived through Muster would ever put Novak ahead of him.
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To play devil’s advocate, didn’t Muster basically enter every single clay tournament available year round? While Djokovic plays basically 3 masters, maybe Belgrade, and RG? So he not only has more clay Masters and Slams, he also did this on his least favorite surface without anywhere near the focus Muster put on clay.

To have that much of an experience/focus gap over your competition on clay and still only make 1 final is not very exemplary.
 
BeatlesFan said:
So two FO's for Novak blows doors off someone with 1 FO title but 39 other clay titles? Nobody who lived through Muster would ever put Novak ahead of him.
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Novak reached 6 FO finals and won 2 of them. He had another 5 SF. That’s 11 SF or F at the most important tennis tournament in the world. muster has one FO win and another SF. Are the other 38 titles mostly the equivalent of 250s and 500s? Why are we even comparing that to slam results?
 
BeatlesFan said:
So two FO's for Novak blows doors off someone with 1 FO title but 39 other clay titles? Nobody who lived through Muster would ever put Novak ahead of him.
Click to expand...
And they’d be ridiculed as idiots. As they should be. 1 clay slam final. Give me a break.
Even entertaining that Muster is better on clay is a severe lack of critical thinking ability.
 
BeatlesFan said:
So two FO's for Novak blows doors off someone with 1 FO title but 39 other clay titles? Nobody who lived through Muster would ever put Novak ahead of him.
Click to expand...
Beating peak Nadal on clay for an entire year(2011) and beating him at the 2013 Monte Carlo seals it in my book. 39 clay titles is pretty sweet though.
 
BeatlesFan said:
So two FO's for Novak blows doors off someone with 1 FO title but 39 other clay titles? Nobody who lived through Muster would ever put Novak ahead of him.
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I lived through Muster, I'd put Djokovic ahead of him. I can't see Muster ever beating Nadal at RG. Novak has done that twice.
 
Nadal, Borg (tied)
Lendl
Guga, Nole (tied?)

Lendl's run on clay is really something, not even 3-setting peak Nadal would put you at 3rd without at least 3 Slams.

P.S. Could be a bit biased as I liked Guga's craftiness
 
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StannisTheMannis said:
And they’d be ridiculed as idiots. As they should be. 1 clay slam final. Give me a break.
Even entertaining that Muster is better on clay is a severe lack of critical thinking ability.
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Novak is miles ahead of Muster at this point. 2 titles and four additional finals vs one title and one semi with lots of early round exits many of those against mugs. Muster is criminally overrated on clay, out of all FO winners in the 90s he has arguably the worst FO record - no amount of Mickey Mouse tournaments can make up for this deficit.
 
Spencer Gore said:
I lived through Muster, I'd put Djokovic ahead of him. I can't see Muster ever beating Nadal at RG. Novak has done that twice.
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Muster couldn’t even beat Courier at RG. Nadal would be the ultimate nightmare matchup for him, there is literally nothing Muster does better than Nadal not even the aspects of Nadal’s game one would generally classify as (relative) weaknesses (like serve). Muster would struggle to even win a set.
 
Spencer Gore said:
I lived through Muster, I'd put Djokovic ahead of him. I can't see Muster ever beating Nadal at RG. Novak has done that twice.
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Okay name two titles and about it's finals you remember? Some details actually within those finals?

Cause I am pretty sure you always talk in abstracts when talking of living through the eras while I have seen some posters(especially in former pro players forum) off handedly recalling facts unavailable on internet about matches. Never saw you post in Former pro players either.


P. S I don't claim to have lived through eras, but Djokovic is my #2 claycourter of the century. Haven't seen Guga enough but doubt he is greater than Djokovic.
 
ForehandCross said:
Okay name two titles and about it's finals you remember? Some details actually within those finals?

Cause I am pretty sure you always talk in abstracts when talking of living through the eras while I have seen some posters(especially in former pro players forum) off handedly recalling facts unavailable on internet about matches. Never saw you post in Former pro players either.


P. S I don't claim to have lived through eras, but Djokovic is my #2 claycourter of the century. Haven't seen Guga enough but doubt he is greater than Djokovic.
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Guga is better, if not for injuries he was going to have 1 or 2 more RG
 
ForehandCross said:
Okay name two titles and about it's finals you remember? Some details actually within those finals?

Cause I am pretty sure you always talk in abstracts when talking of living through the eras while I have seen some posters(especially in former pro players forum) off handedly recalling facts unavailable on internet about matches. Never saw you post in Former pro players either.
Click to expand...
Let's play it another way. One of my favorite finals (for many reasons) that I attended was in the 1980s between two ATGs. One of them called the umpire a "c***s*cker" and WASN'T defaulted. See if you can google an online article or video about it. I'll be very surprised if you can.
 
Spencer Gore said:
Let's play it another way. One of my favorite finals (for many reasons) that I attended was in the 1980s between two ATGs. One of them called the umpire a "c***s*cker" and WASN'T defaulted. See if you can google an online article or video about it. I'll be very surprised if you can.
Click to expand...


Umm, you don't pass a test by posting a question, I have no idea where you know that from maybe a book? Maybe from some obscure commentary meandering talks.

My question was specific.
 
Spencer Gore said:
Let's play it another way. One of my favorite finals (for many reasons) that I attended was in the 1980s between two ATGs. One of them called the umpire a "c***s*cker" and WASN'T defaulted. See if you can google an online article or video about it. I'll be very surprised if you can.
Click to expand...
Basic google search shows that Connors called Wilander 'a f***ing c**ks****r' in a practice match before Wilander won RG 1982 - there was no umpire involved, it was a practice session.
Maybe your memory is not what it used to be.
 
I'm starting to think Nadal fans were right when they were saying Djokovic would have been an ATG without him on clay. This past RG has turned everything upside down for me.
 
NoleFam said:
I'm starting to think Nadal fans were right when they were saying Djokovic would have been an ATG without him on clay. This past RG has turned everything upside down for me.
Click to expand...
Nole probably is 3rd best ever on clay. They are correct in saying that.
 
ForehandCross said:
Umm, you don't pass a test by posting a question, I have no idea where you know that from maybe a book? Maybe from some obscure commentary meandering talks.

My question was specific.
Click to expand...
No, I know it from being at the match. I gave you an obscure detail that only someone who watched the match would remember, as you can't google it. As you asked.
 
Spencer Gore said:
No, I know it from being at the match. I gave you an obscure detail that only someone who watched the match would remember, as you can't google it. As you asked.
Click to expand...

I understand your point and I am contesting the validity of that BUT you don't pass a test by asking / answering another question a entirely.

As I said this can be borrowed knowledge from somewhere.

The first question is still on.
 
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