Who of the big 3 defeated the most amount of pigeons for their grand slams?

Who of the big 3 defeated the most amount of pigeons for their grand slams?

  • Federer

    Votes: 20 42.6%

  • Nadal

    Votes: 6 12.8%

  • Djokovic

    Votes: 21 44.7%
  • Total voters
    47
REKX

REKX

Rookie
As a Federer and Nadal fan, I think I enjoyed tennis at the absolute peak when these two were dominating. In terms of interest, drama, levels, emotion, anticipation, I don't think anything tops the period between say Wimbledon 2008 to the Australian Open 2009.

I don't want to say who defeated the most pigeons, but I can certainly say it wasn't Nadal as he never had his own period - it was almost always either Prime Federer or Prime Djokovic.
 
Nadal has defeated either Fed or Djokovic 21 times on his way to his 22 grand slams.

Djokovic has defeated either Nadal or Fed 18 times in his way to his 24 slams.
 
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Turning Pro said:
Nadal has defeated either Fed or Djokovic 21 times on his way to his 22 grand slams.

Djokovic has defeated either Nadal or Fed 18 times in his way to his 24 slams.
Click to expand...
Your math is faulty. Times that Nadal won w/o defeating B3 members, non-RG

AO: 2022
WB: 2010
US: 2017, 2019
 
SonnyT said:
Your math is faulty. Times that Nadal won w/o defeating B3 members, non-RG

AO: 2022
WB: 2010
US: 2017, 2019
Click to expand...

He has defeated either Fed AND/OR Djoker in 21 times on his way to the 22 slams for e.g beaten Djoker AND Fed at the FO 2008.

My maths is NEVER faulty.
 
Turning Pro said:
He has defeated either Fed AND/OR Djoker in 21 times on his way to the 22 slams for e.g beaten Djoker AND Fed at the FO 2008.

My maths is NEVER faulty.
Click to expand...
4 into 1 do not fit.

4 out of 8 non-RG slams is 50%.
SonnyT said:
Your math is faulty. Times that Nadal won w/o defeating B3 members, non-RG

AO: 2022
WB: 2010
US: 2017, 2019
Click to expand...
So which of the 4 don't you agree? It's clear as night and day!
 
That depends on your definition of pigeon. Is it the most 100+ ranked opponents beaten in Slams won?

Nadal - 21 (21/22 = 0.96 beaten per Slam)
Federer - 17 (17/20 = 0.85 " " " )
Djokovic - 20 (20/24 = 0.83 " " " )

Then Nadal beat the most. Is it the amount of Slams without beating a top 4 player?

Federer - 9 (9/20 = 45%)
Nadal - 3 (3/22 = 13.6%)
Djokovic - 2 (2/24 = 8.3%)

Then Federer beat the most. Is it the amount of Slams won when neither of the other two big 3 members were in the draw?

Djokovic - 3 (3/24 = 12.5%)
Federer - 1 (1/20 = 5%)
Nadal - 1 (1/22 = 4.6%)

Then Djokovic beat the most. So we need a little clarity on what you mean because there are different levels to this.
 
Last edited:
NoleFam said:
That depends on your definition of pigeon. Is it the most 100+ ranked opponents beaten in Slams won?

Nadal - 21 (21/22 = 0.96 beaten per Slam)
Federer - 17 (17/20 = 0.85 " " " )
Djokovic - 20 (20/24 = 0.83 " " " )

Then Nadal beat the most. Is it the amount of Slams without beating a top 4 player?

Federer - 9 (9/20 = 45%)
Nadal - 3 (3/22 = 13.6%)
Djokovic - 1 (1/24 = 4.2%)

Then Federer beat the most. Is it the amount of Slams won when neither of the other two big 3 members were in the draw?

Djokovic - 3 (3/24 = 12.5%)
Federer - 1 (1/20 = 5%)
Nadal - 1 (1/22 = 4.6%)

Then Djokovic beat the most. So we need a little clarity on what you mean because there are different levels to this.
Click to expand...
If it's based on strength of draws, I'd go with Djokovic now because of the amazing field that let Nick Kyrgios into a Wimbledon final, but if we looked only at 2003-2017, I'd probably say Federer. Even stronger years had some easy draws (thinking Wimbledon 2005, AO 2007, etc.)

Nadal is harder to judge because he's just so dominant on clay, although his USO draws have been the easiest of the big 3 IMO.
 
Devin said:
If it's based on strength of draws, I'd go with Djokovic now because of the amazing field that let Nick Kyrgios into a Wimbledon final, but if we looked only at 2003-2017, I'd probably say Federer. Even stronger years had some easy draws (thinking Wimbledon 2005, AO 2007, etc.)

Nadal is harder to judge because he's just so dominant on clay, although his USO draws have been the easiest of the big 3 IMO.
Click to expand...
I think people may be a little unfair to Nick. Most people say that because Nadal decided to drop out of the SF match but if that match happened and Nick beat him at Wimbledon, again, that narrative would not be a thing right now. Nick was in great form that tournament and played well in the final, and he has the type of game that translates well to grass, like Hurkacz in a way. I agree about Nadal's USO draws but they all all had some easier draws in their careers, some more than others.
 
Whoever keeps statistics like this? But everyone knows Djokovic faces a lot more tough matches throughout his careers than his rivals, U10 or U5 or U1! One factor might be that he has gone further in slams than anyone else.
 
Define pigeon (in this context).
Define weak draw.
If a draw gets "weaker" due to upsets, is it still weak?
If a player wins their matches in an easier fashion, does that mean it was a weaker draw?

I'll await the wisdom.
 
Turning Pro said:
Nadal has defeated either Fed or Djokovic 21 times on his way to his 22 grand slams.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. In fact, you're way off. Nadal won 6 slams without playing either Roger or Novak. @Turning Pro

2010 FO Nadal won and played neither.
2017 FO Rafa won and played neither.
2018 FO Rafa won and played neither.


2017 USO he won and played neither
2019 US0 he won and played neither

2022 AO he won and played neither.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Incorrect. In fact, you're way off. Nadal won 6 slams without playing either Roger or Novak. @Turning Pro

2010 FO Nadal won and played neither.
2017 FO Rafa won and played neither.
2018 FO Rafa won and played neither.


2017 USO he won and played neither
2019 US0 he won and played neither

2022 AO he won and played neither.
Click to expand...
My bad. I should have said he defeated Nole and Fed 21 times in slams Compared to say novak beat Fed and Nadal 18 times In slams.

Honest mistake I'm still on holiday and having a few beers so genuine mistake :) still I'd hazard a guess he's won more slams playing either Fed or Nole en route than vice versa.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Incorrect. In fact, you're way off. Nadal won 6 slams without playing either Roger or Novak. @Turning Pro

2010 FO Nadal won and played neither.
2017 FO Rafa won and played neither.
2018 FO Rafa won and played neither.


2017 USO he won and played neither
2019 US0 he won and played neither

2022 AO he won and played neither.
Click to expand...
2010 WB, Nadal played neither Federer nor Djokovic. In fact, in 8 non-RG slams that he won, he only faced Fedolic 4 times.
 
Razer said:
WAS

Fed rectified it at the 2017 AO, tad too late but he did despite being 5 years older.
Click to expand...
The semi-finals of the Australian Open at that time were still played on different days, otherwise, we would be talking about a prolonged "paternity" of the Spanish Bull over the Swiss Maestro in Grand Slam tournaments.
:D
 
Devin said:
If it's based on strength of draws, I'd go with Djokovic now because of the amazing field that let Nick Kyrgios into a Wimbledon final, but if we looked only at 2003-2017, I'd probably say Federer. Even stronger years had some easy draws (thinking Wimbledon 2005, AO 2007, etc.)

Nadal is harder to judge because he's just so dominant on clay, although his USO draws have been the easiest of the big 3 IMO.
Click to expand...

What was harder about Djok's US18 draw compared to Nadal's US17? Despite purely looking at rankings...

Also, Djok US23 was a farce.. Nadal's US19 was tougher.
 
The_Order said:
What was harder about Djok's US18 draw compared to Nadal's US17? Despite purely looking at rankings...

Also, Djok US23 was a farce.. Nadal's US19 was tougher.
Click to expand...
It's only really Djokovic's 11 draw that puts him over Nadal's winning draws. Not the others.
 
The_Order said:
What was harder about Djok's US18 draw compared to Nadal's US17? Despite purely looking at rankings...
Click to expand...

Niehter was very tough, but Djokovic faced a tougher version of del Potro and a former finalist in Nishikori.



The_Order said:
Also, Djok US23 was a farce.. Nadal's US19 was tougher.
Click to expand...


Nadal for sure had a tougher R16, QF and SF in Cilic, Berretini and Schwartzmann, but let's be real, Djokovic beats those guys too (like Nadal beats the one Djokovic faced too). Their only top rival was Medvedev and Djokovic faced a version that was a top player for years, having won a slam and made finals while in 2019 he had just had his breakthrough and hadn't won anything of note outside Cincinnati. So Nadal did have more depth and faced stronger rivals overall for sure but Djokovic had the toughest one if you only have to pick one player they faced in those events.
 
‘The Big 3‘ - an animated movie starring two birds (Pigeoner, Vulturedal) and one GOAT. That’s how a Disney cartoon movie about the Big 3 would be marketed.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
Niehter was very tough, but Djokovic faced a tougher version of del Potro and a former finalist in Nishikori.






Nadal for sure had a tougher R16, QF and SF in Cilic, Berretini and Schwartzmann, but let's be real, Djokovic beats those guys too (like Nadal beats the one Djokovic faced too). Their only top rival was Medvedev and Djokovic faced a version that was a top player for years, having won a slam and made finals while in 2019 he had just had his breakthrough and hadn't won anything of note outside Cincinnati. So Nadal did have more depth and faced stronger rivals overall for sure but Djokovic had the toughest one if you only have to pick one player they faced in those events.
Click to expand...

There was nothing tougher about Delpo...

"former finalist Nishikori" come on... let's not pretend that just because he's a former finalist he was tough during that run...

US17 and 18 were both weak af draws and anyone trying to argue one over the other is just splitting hairs...

Then at the same time... you conveniently leave out the fact that in, 2019 Nadal beat former CHAMPION Cilic... I guess that counts for nothing but "former finalist Nishikori" gets a big shout out from you... Typical hypocritical stuff from Djok fans...

Med was having his best NA HC season going into the US19 match and he certainly played FAR better than he did in 23...
 
The_Order said:
There was nothing tougher about Delpo...
Click to expand...

Del Potro was coming back to form in 2017, in 2018 he was having the best season in his career aside from 2019.


The_Order said:
"former finalist Nishikori" come on... let's not pretend that just because he's a former finalist he was tough during that run...
Click to expand...

He was still at a good level at that point in time. No this peak but still good.


The_Order said:
US17 and 18 were both weak af draws and anyone trying to argue one over the other is just splitting hairs...
Click to expand...

Both weakish but Nadal was weaker, no top 25 or so in a slam is not usual at all.



The_Order said:
Then at the same time... you conveniently leave out the fact that in, 2019 Nadal beat former CHAMPION Cilic.
Click to expand...

Huh? What are you on? I clearly mentioned Cilic and said he made the road to the final tougher. Not that Djokovic ever struggled against Cilic and when he played him at the USO he demolished him.


The_Order said:
Med was having his best NA HC season going into the US19 match and he certainly played FAR better than he did in 23...
Click to expand...

In 2023 he beat Alcaraz, the defending champion who had just won Wimbledon and made the Cinci final and was one of the favorites for the event. He did great in 2019 but no big noteworthy wins. Dimitrov was unseeded and Wawrinka was coming back from injuries and clearly not the same as pre-2017 RG. He was still breaking through and did well in the final obviously, but he was a better player in 2023 than 2019, he had huge numbers on HC last year and although he did well in 2019 NA season he was still green and lacked big match experience.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
Niehter was very tough, but Djokovic faced a tougher version of del Potro and a former finalist in Nishikori.






Nadal for sure had a tougher R16, QF and SF in Cilic, Berretini and Schwartzmann, but let's be real, Djokovic beats those guys too (like Nadal beats the one Djokovic faced too). Their only top rival was Medvedev and Djokovic faced a version that was a top player for years, having won a slam and made finals while in 2019 he had just had his breakthrough and hadn't won anything of note outside Cincinnati. So Nadal did have more depth and faced stronger rivals overall for sure but Djokovic had the toughest one if you only have to pick one player they faced in those events.
Click to expand...
Nishikori arrived at the semi-finals exhausted, which for a physique as weak as his, it was a surprise that he was able to finish his match against Djokovic.
And Del Potro, who reached a GS final after 9 years (the longest span in the Open Era), was only a competitive opponent in the second set.
His level in the decisive match was not at all similar to that shown in the remembered final of the 2009 US Open against Federer.
(n)
 
BauerAlmeida said:
Del Potro was coming back to form in 2017, in 2018 he was having the best season in his career aside from 2019.
Click to expand...

How he played during the season is irrelevant to how he played at the US Open... in that final he was just as subpar as he was against Rafa the year prior...

BauerAlmeida said:
He was still at a good level at that point in time. No this peak but still good.
Click to expand...

Nothing to suggest he was any more difficult than Anderson in the final of 2017...

BauerAlmeida said:
Both weakish but Nadal was weaker, no top 25 or so in a slam is not usual at all.
Click to expand...

Again, purely going on ranking...

We are talking about the draws here...

QF - Millman, SF - Nishikori, F - Del Potro

No tougher than

QF - Rublev, SF - Del Potro, F- Anderson

And they weren't "weakish" they were both absolute pushover draws. Fact.


BauerAlmeida said:
Huh? What are you on? I clearly mentioned Cilic and said he made the road to the final tougher. Not that Djokovic ever struggled against Cilic and when he played him at the USO he demolished him.
Click to expand...

You were quick to mention Nishikori as a former finalist to add weight to your point... but you didn't mention Cilic was former champion... because you knew it would weaken your argument. Don't cry about being called out on it.

BauerAlmeida said:
In 2023 he beat Alcaraz, the defending champion who had just won Wimbledon and made the Cinci final and was one of the favorites for the event. He did great in 2019 but no big noteworthy wins. Dimitrov was unseeded and Wawrinka was coming back from injuries and clearly not the same as pre-2017 RG. He was still breaking through and did well in the final obviously, but he was a better player in 2023 than 2019, he had huge numbers on HC last year and although he did well in 2019 NA season he was still green and lacked big match experience.
Click to expand...

In 2019 he beat Djokovic on his way to winning Cincinnati... whether you like it or not, that is a very big noteworthy win... in fact the only player he lost to in NA HC season in 2019 was Nadal...


The "better player" 2023 version lost to DeMinaur and Zverev in the NA HC season... much worse than his "still green" 2019 version... he had a good run at the US Open but literally played only one really impressive match and that was against Alcaraz. In the final he turned to shiiit... At least in 2019 final he fought back from being 2 sets down and put in a good showing.

Face it, you don't have a leg to stand on.
 
The_Order said:
How he played during the season is irrelevant to how he played at the US Open... in that final he was just as subpar as he was against Rafa the year prior...
Click to expand...


Lol, no. Of course, you have to consider how they played during that tournament and that season and not just an individual match in a vacuum. If not, you are punishing a player for winning easily. If Djokovic had had more trouble to win and won in 4 or 5 you'd be saying he won vs a tougher competition because del Potro played better? That makes no sense.


The_Order said:
Nothing to suggest he was any more difficult than Anderson in the final of 2017...
Click to expand...

He is simply a better player than Anderson. He beat Djokovic himself at the USO and has better results and a better career.


The_Order said:
Again, purely going on ranking...

We are talking about the draws here...

QF - Millman, SF - Nishikori, F - Del Potro

No tougher than

QF - Rublev, SF - Del Potro, F- Anderson
Click to expand...


Rublev was a kid in 2017, he is considered a joke now when he is at his peak to make Djokovic's draws and field look weaker, back then he was what, 20 years old? Making his first slam QF?

Millman had just beaten FEDERER (and Fognini before). If Djokovic had beaten Federer in the QF we wouldn't hear about the weak draw, but it's his fault he lost? Even if he beat with ease the player that beat him two days before? Del Potro in 2017 was not doing anything, he had his first decent win of the season before Federer who had been struggling with his back since Canada and a match he almost lost vs Thiem. In 2019 he reached the final without much trouble playing great tennis, won his first M1000, and was #3 in the world instead of 20something.




The_Order said:
.. but you didn't mention Cilic was former champion... because you knew it would weaken your argument. Don't cry about being called out on it.
Click to expand...

Seriously this is ridiculous lol, I brought up Cilic precisely to mention the road to the final wasn't bad and to say the draw was stronger. Why the **** would I need to mention his or somebody else's results :-D How would it "weaken" my argument if PRECISELY the argument was the road was tougher.


The_Order said:
In 2019 he beat Djokovic on his way to winning Cincinnati... whether you like it or not, that is a very big noteworthy win... in fact the only player he lost to in NA HC season in 2019 was Nadal...
Click to expand...


Doesn't change the fact he was clearly a better player in 2023 than 2019.


The_Order said:
The "better player" 2023 version lost to DeMinaur and Zverev in the NA HC season...
Click to expand...

Zverev is a bad lose now? He has tons of big titles on HC? What about what he did at the USO beating Alcaraz? What about what he did in the other HC events of the year. Because of one match lost to De Minaur we ignore that?


The_Order said:
In the final he turned to shiiit...
Click to expand...


Del Potro turned to **** in the final. Medvedev turned to **** in the final.




It's funny how everyone suddenly turns to **** when facing Djokovic. Over and over they suddenly massively decline compared to their previous level (Nadal at AO 2019, Federer at Wimbledon 2015, etc.) I'm starting to think he might have something to do with it maybe.
 
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