Who played the best match vs Federer at the USO in 2004-2008?

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Yeah.

It really shouldn't be that but thats the tragic reality.

03 WIM/1st TB 09 WIM were golden chances that he blew.
Well Fed was 15-1 in TBs in the last 2 rounds of Wimbledon from 03-09, 5-0 against Roddick and 5-1 against Nadal, so not too bad. No shame in losing the 07 USO TBs either considering what it took.

Obviously Roddick had great chances to win the 03 and 09 TBs but it's not like he had an extended collapse in any of them, came down to missing 1 ball. Nadal losing from 5-2 up in 08 with 2 serves (and Federer giving him 2 additional UFE to give him another chance) was probably worse.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Do me a favor, watch that 2nd set tb and tell me ATG level Roddick couldn't win a single set cuz Federer was that sharp.

Federer got only one first serve in, and that was the last point of the set, at 6-4. I believe Roddick won only 1 point on Federer's second serve (out of 6) - it was an UE from Federer.

Winners + FE = Roddick 4, Federer 2
UEs = Roddick 2, Federer 2

Point at 4-4 is cut out, don't know what happened there.

Not to mention average return at 0-1 or not so great approach from Roddick at 2-1.

I'm afraid mr. Roddick falls short of any ATG discussion here.
 

RS

Talk Tennis Guru
Do me a favor, watch that 2nd set tb and tell me ATG level Roddick couldn't win a single set cuz Federer was that sharp.

Federer got only one first serve in, and that was the last point of the set, at 6-4. I believe Roddick won only 1 point on Federer's second serve (out of 6) - it was an UE from Federer.

Winners + FE = Roddick 4, Federer 2
UEs = Roddick 2, Federer 2

Point at 4-4 is cut out, don't know what happened there.

Not to mention average return at 0-1 or not so great approach from Roddick at 2-1.

I'm afraid mr. Roddick falls short of any ATG discussion here.
Lol I was messing around.
 

RS

Talk Tennis Guru
Do me a favor, watch that 2nd set tb and tell me ATG level Roddick couldn't win a single set cuz Federer was that sharp.

Federer got only one first serve in, and that was the last point of the set, at 6-4. I believe Roddick won only 1 point on Federer's second serve (out of 6) - it was an UE from Federer.

Winners + FE = Roddick 4, Federer 2
UEs = Roddick 2, Federer 2

Point at 4-4 is cut out, don't know what happened there.

Not to mention average return at 0-1 or not so great approach from Roddick at 2-1.

I'm afraid mr. Roddick falls short of any ATG discussion here.
On a serious note what do you consider ATG level?
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
I don’t remember as much about 2009 Federer in the final.
Routinely won the 1st. While serving for the 2nd set, Delpo hit two miracle fh passing shots and broke him. That seemed to throw him off balance a bit. 3rd set was tightly contested, had a couple of mini meltdowns, but won it 6-4 after being down a break. Delpo somehow eeked out the 4th. Rest is history.

Oh, and the small fact that midmatch it occured to him that it might be a good idea to try and abuse Delpo's forehand.

Nevertheless, as I've said, you could argue it was ATG level.
 

RS

Talk Tennis Guru
@Biotic

Some Federer fans have said that Del Potro played even better in the RG 09 clash and Federer was not great in the USO 09 final. But yes I agree with the premise.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
@Biotic
Some Federer fans have said that Del Potro played even better in the RG 09 clash and Federer was not great in the USO 09 final.
I won't derail this thread with RG09.

IMO Federer was really good in USO 09 (overall comparable to 08 and 07), until that match run away from him. And that was an uncharted territory for him at that point. Part of it was maybe the psychological issue of being beaten in fh to fh exchanges, can't say for sure.

I watched that match, and I remember thinking midway through the 3rd there's no way Federer loses this. He was clearly the better player at that point. But Delpo played out of his mind in certain stretches, and found a way.
 
D

Deleted member 22147

Guest
Igor Andreev in 2008, hands down. That guy had some serious top spin forehand. Shame injuries got rid of his career.
Andreev dealt with injuries later on, but he was quite useless anyway, he had years when he was fit and done next to nothing. Just a solid ATP level player, but nothing more.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Do me a favor, watch that 2nd set tb and tell me ATG level Roddick couldn't win a single set cuz Federer was that sharp.

Federer got only one first serve in, and that was the last point of the set, at 6-4. I believe Roddick won only 1 point on Federer's second serve (out of 6) - it was an UE from Federer.

Winners + FE = Roddick 4, Federer 2
UEs = Roddick 2, Federer 2

Point at 4-4 is cut out, don't know what happened there.

Not to mention average return at 0-1 or not so great approach from Roddick at 2-1.

I'm afraid mr. Roddick falls short of any ATG discussion here.
Few instances at USO where ATG level opponent was beaten en route to the title. You could argue:

2004 Agassi
2009 Federer
2011 Federer
See regarding the TB later below.
09 USO F fed serves poorly including at like 50%, giving delpo chance in 2nd set starting with a stupid dropshot, plays a horrible 5th set vs delpo. That's ATG, but Roddick's 2nd set TB in USO 07 QF is what you have a problem with?
11 USO SF fed doesn't play that good a 3rd set, plays a horrible 4th set, crumbles from MP down in the 5th set, but Roddick's 2nd set TB in USO 07 QF is what you have a problem with?

Roddick faced a Federer close to his very best, returning fairly well and didn't face a BP for 2 whole sets. That's how well he was serving and backing up his serve. Only one shaky game in the 3rd set to get broken for the first time.

At 4 all in the USO 07 QF 2nd set TB. Fed hit a 140 mph serve right back at Roddick's feet and got the error from him. Anyone who knows about that match knows that point.

2nd set TB in that USO 07 QF:

0-0: Roddick with a fierce I/O FH and then swinging FH volley winner
0-1: ok, not that great a return from Roddick, but federer forces error with FH
1-1: roddick goes for the 2nd serve return, but misses
1-2: approach from Roddick was fine with fed being deep back. just that fed was better to be able to pass him
1-3: unreturnable from Roddick
3-2: Roddick hits a good return off 2nd serve and eventually forces error from fed in the rally to get the mini break back
3-3: very good twist serve on 2nd serve from fed and FH forces error from Roddick
3-4: federer with a UE on inside in FH in medium sized rally
4-4: Fed hits a 140 mph serve right back at Roddick's feet and got the error from him.
4-5: Roddick with a FH UE
4-6: fed with the unreturnable

frankly the only fault from Roddick was that FH UE at 4-5. That's it.
 
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metsman

G.O.A.T.
Point at 4-4 is cut out, don't know what happened there.
Yeah, maybe just say "don't know what happened there" for the whole match and leave it at that.

I remember when chumps used to pretend they were tennis aficionados at the time when it was clear that they were ripping off wikipedia and whatever they could find video of. Can't even get that level of quality anymore on here.
 

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
Routinely won the 1st. While serving for the 2nd set, Delpo hit two miracle fh passing shots and broke him. That seemed to throw him off balance a bit. 3rd set was tightly contested, had a couple of mini meltdowns, but won it 6-4 after being down a break. Delpo somehow eeked out the 4th. Rest is history.

Oh, and the small fact that midmatch it occured to him that it might be a good idea to try and abuse Delpo's forehand.

Nevertheless, as I've said, you could argue it was ATG level.
That match sums up Federer’s career in a nutshell. So much arrogance that he decided to go FH to FH with Delpo again and again only to lose what could have been a routine win. Similarly, he didn’t take Djokovic seriously enough for many years, and was very stubborn in his tactics against Nadal throughout his prime.
 

RS

Talk Tennis Guru
LOL.
09 USO F fed serves poorly including at like 50%, giving delpo chance in 2nd set starting with a stupid dropshot, plays a horrible 5th set vs delpo. That's ATG, but Roddick's 2nd set TB in USO 07 QF is what you have a problem with? :-D
11 USO SF fed doesn't play that good a 3rd set, plays a horrible 4th set, crumbles from MP down in the 5th set, but Roddick's 2nd set TB in USO 07 QF is what you have a problem with? :-D

At 4 all in the USO 07 QF 2nd set TB. Fed hit a 140 mph serve right back at Roddick's feet and got the error from him.

2nd set TB in that USO 07 QF:

0-0: Roddick with a fierce I/O FH and then swinging FH volley winner
0-1: ok, not that great a return from Roddick, but federer forces error with FH
1-1: roddick goes for the 2nd serve return, but misses
1-2: approach from Roddick was fine with fed being deep back. just that fed was better to be able to pass him
1-3: unreturnable from Roddick
3-2: Roddick hits a good return off 2nd serve and eventually forces error from fed in the rally to get the mini break back
3-3: very good twist serve on 2nd serve from fed and FH forces error from Roddick
3-4: federer with a UE on inside in FH in medium sized rally
4-4: Fed hit a 140 mph serve right back at Roddick's feet and got the error from him.
4-5: Roddick with a FH UE
4-6: fed with the unreturnable

frankly the only fault from Roddick was that FH UE at 4-5. That's it.
I knew this response was coming :D
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, maybe just say "don't know what happened there" for the whole match and leave it at that.

I remember when chumps used to pretend they were tennis aficionados at the time when it was clear that they were ripping off wikipedia and whatever they could find video of. Can't even get that level of quality anymore on here.
ouch lol
 

RS

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, maybe just say "don't know what happened there" for the whole match and leave it at that.

I remember when chumps used to pretend they were tennis aficionados at the time when it was clear that they were ripping off wikipedia and whatever they could find video of. Can't even get that level of quality anymore on here.
peak match metsman?
 
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abmk

Bionic Poster
Yeah, maybe just say "don't know what happened there" for the whole match and leave it at that.

I remember when chumps used to pretend they were tennis aficionados at the time when it was clear that they were ripping off wikipedia and whatever they could find video of. Can't even get that level of quality anymore on here.
This video was probably what he saw from. It has the 4 all point in the 2nd set TB missing. Maybe the first time he watched a part of the match.

 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Yeah, maybe just say "don't know what happened there" for the whole match and leave it at that.

I remember when chumps used to pretend they were tennis aficionados at the time when it was clear that they were ripping off wikipedia and whatever they could find video of. Can't even get that level of quality anymore on here.
Thanks for trying to drag the discussion down the gutter. Not that I expected anything other than that from the likes of you.

14% on first serve was obviously too much even for ATG Roddick.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Do me a favor, watch that 2nd set tb and tell me ATG level Roddick couldn't win a single set cuz Federer was that sharp.

Federer got only one first serve in, and that was the last point of the set, at 6-4. I believe Roddick won only 1 point on Federer's second serve (out of 6) - it was an UE from Federer.

Winners + FE = Roddick 4, Federer 2
UEs = Roddick 2, Federer 2

Point at 4-4 is cut out, don't know what happened there.

Not to mention average return at 0-1 or not so great approach from Roddick at 2-1.

I'm afraid mr. Roddick falls short of any ATG discussion here.
If you had seen the match in full, that would have been the kind of point you'd remember. It very frequently gets its own dedicated videos.

 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Routinely won the 1st. While serving for the 2nd set, Delpo hit two miracle fh passing shots and broke him. That seemed to throw him off balance a bit. 3rd set was tightly contested, had a couple of mini meltdowns, but won it 6-4 after being down a break. Delpo somehow eeked out the 4th. Rest is history.

Oh, and the small fact that midmatch it occured to him that it might be a good idea to try and abuse Delpo's forehand.

Nevertheless, as I've said, you could argue it was ATG level.
I won't derail this thread with RG09.

IMO Federer was really good in USO 09 (overall comparable to 08 and 07), until that match run away from him. And that was an uncharted territory for him at that point. Part of it was maybe the psychological issue of being beaten in fh to fh exchanges, can't say for sure.

I watched that match, and I remember thinking midway through the 3rd there's no way Federer loses this. He was clearly the better player at that point. But Delpo played out of his mind in certain stretches, and found a way.
yea, yea. Federer serving poorly by his standards at around 50% had nothing to do with that. Neither did that useless fail FH dropshot that allowed delpo the window to come back in the 2nd set (which he did very well). neither did the DF in the 4th set TB that was the only minibreak of the TB. And fed sucking in the 5th set. nothing whatsoever to do with it.
 

RS

Talk Tennis Guru
Watching a bit of the first set of that USO 07 match now. Federer seems to be dealing with the power of Roddick quite a bit better than the Wimbledon 2004 final?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Thanks for trying to drag the discussion down the gutter. Not that I expected anything other than that from the likes of you.

14% on first serve was obviously too much even for ATG Roddick.
You won't reply to properly substantiated rebuttal of your (wrong) posts, but have no problem complaining if someone is being harsh?
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Roddick was worse in 2008 though. His worst year in the 2003-2009 stretch.
Doesn't matter. What matters is the narrative that Roddick was playing some god level tennis but Federer was so great, clutch and sharp that Roddick couldn't even win a single set.

Roddick played really good, especially on his serve, noone is denying that. That TB tho is a clear evidence that Roddick had a chance to clutch it out and at least win 1 set. 14% on first serve from Federer +2 UEs. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's not what I'd call unbeatable in a TB.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Watching a bit of the first set of that USO 07 match now. Federer seems to be dealing with the power of Roddick quite a bit better than the Wimbledon 2004 final?
Why else do you think me, metsman and others rate this match highly? Fed was sharp. returning fairly well. Yet Roddick was serving that well and backing it up so well that he didn't face a BP for 2 full sets. His level fell a little in the 3rd set. 1 game was somewhat shaky - fed broke. Roddick tried to break back, but couldn't. 2nd break for fed was just fed playing really well.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Doesn't matter. What matters is the narrative that Roddick was playing some god level tennis but Federer was so great, clutch and sharp that Roddick couldn't even win a single set.

Roddick played really good, especially on his serve, noone is denying that. That TB tho is a clear evidence that Roddick had a chance to clutch it out and at least win 1 set. 14% on first serve from Federer +2 UEs. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's not what I'd call unbeatable in a TB.
only 1 UE from fed in the TB. At 3-4 Roddick in the TB

Stop taking directly from TA and watch properly. Point at 3-2 Fed was an error forced from Roddick starting with a pretty good return ( a point on fed's 2nd serve). That's what Roddick did to get the mini-break back.

Fed passing Roddick at 1-2 Roddick was Fed being sharp
As was that 4 all point where fed blocked that 140 mph serve from Roddick at his feet.
And when fed is hitting a really good twist serve on 2nd serve at 3 all, how is that Roddick's fault, lol?

Like I said: frankly the only fault from Roddick was that FH UE at 4-5. That's it.
 

RS

Talk Tennis Guru
Why else do you think me, metsman and others rate this match highly? Fed was sharp. returning fairly well. Yet Roddick was serving that well and backing it up so well that he didn't face a BP for 2 full sets. His level fell a little in the 3rd set. 1 game was somewhat shaky - fed broke. Roddick tried to break back, but couldn't. 2nd break for fed was just fed playing really well.
The same reasons other fanbases rate matches that the guy they support played highly in peak years :sneaky:

In all seriousness Federer is handling the barrages and power very well like i said.
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic served very well in the SF vs fed at USO 11. one of his best serving performances at the USO. Had like 28% serves unreturned IIRC.
His serving dipped considerably in the final
If I remember he could serve good for a bit but then it would give out and he would just get it in to start the point.
He had that shoulder and arm taped up with Kenetic tape.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Thanks for trying to drag the discussion down the gutter. Not that I expected anything other than that from the likes of you.

14% on first serve was obviously too much even for ATG Roddick.
LOL you don't have a clue about the most important point in the entire match, this is not a discussion you should have even tried to get into.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
The same reasons other fanbases rate matches that the guy they support played highly in peak years :sneaky:

In all seriousness Federer is handling the barrages and power very well like i said.
This is rating it highly among the matches at peak, lol.
Probably rate it 6th best perf of Fed at USO after USO 04 SF/F, USO 05 QF, USO 06 SF/F.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Watching a bit of the first set of that USO 07 match now. Federer seems to be dealing with the power of Roddick quite a bit better than the Wimbledon 2004 final?
Well Federer served way better in 07 USO (and Roddick returned way better at Wimby 04). Also, Roddick's FH was a bit more deadly in 04, although he was hitting it quite well in 07.

The two are different types of matches really.
 
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