anointedone
Banned
In light of a recent topic discussion I think this would make an interesting poll topic. Who do you believe rates higher all time- Graf or Serena Williams.
Who rates higher all time- Graf or Serena
- Thread starter anointedone
- Start date
Joe Pike
Banned
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
According to anointedone, Henin is the goat. :lol:
davey25
Banned
and according to Ultra2HolyGrail Capriati is better than Graf, so Henin who constantly kicked Capriati's fat ass all around even at Capriati's peak must be light years better than Graf according to Ultra2HolyGrail. So what is so funny then.
anointedone
Banned
OK I concede that is what it is. I was feeling bad today. :twisted: My sig gives some insight to what I have unfortunately allowed myself to be indulged in.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
How do you figure? Graf owned novotna. Serena beat 29yo graf when she was 17. Graf could not overpower her and it was actually the other way around. Heck, even navratilova beat steffi when she was 37. 37 years old. Graf has to be one of the most overated 'goats' of all time.
How many 17 yr olds are gonna beat serena? How many 37 year olds are gonna beat serena?
davey25
Banned
Serena can get in that conversation at some point perhaps (though at her current age probably a stretch). She will need to continue to achieve alot more however, really come roaring down the homestretch of her career to have any hope of being in there. One thing that works against her even if she reaches the point she can even be compared to Graf or Navratilova like legends though, is the huge hole in the middle of her career where she let her results drop so far off completely. Winning only 2 slams in a 5 year span at one point is not something that will be easy to ever overlook. Her lack of focus on the non slam events isnt something that will help her either.
davey25
Banned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7Xif8LhMuI
That wasnt just a loss either, it was a street mugging and vs a 17 year old who will never go down as one of the all time top 20 players even.
Graf did not lose to Navratilova at 37, but as for Serena losing to a 37 year old if Navratilova was born 16 years later you could bet on it happening. If Serena Williams has allowed Sybille freaking Bammer to beat her twice (as well of a slew of other nobodies) then it is a pretty good bet a 37 year old Navratilova who was hands down better than Bammer would have managed it at some point. Thankfully for Serena she will likely never face a 37 year old anywhere near Navratilovas calibre.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
Yes she did.
Some more fun facts.
Graf is only 8-6 vs davenport, and retired much before davenports prime in the 2000's
Serena is 10-4 vs davenport
Venus is 13-14 against davenport.
Honestly, graf is lucky she retired when she did and was older than these players because i don't see her dominating anyone of them. All power baseliners with two handers vs steffi
s slice backhand? Keep living in lala land.
davey25
Banned
No she did not. I know their head to head match by match and Graf did not have a loss to Navratilova at 37. Someone who actually thought Sabatini led Graf 29-11 head to head and that Evert once destroyed a 17 year old Graf (when she did not even once beat a 17 year old or older Graf) should not even be attempting to argue something they are clueless about.
or your sad attempts of them
Again you fail. Davenport's prime was 1998-2000 where all 3 of her slam victories came. She struggled with injuries the rest of her career. Graf had over half of her matches with Davenport in 1998 and 1999 when Davenport was at her peak and Graf was a warped shell of her old self coming off major reconstructive knee surgery yet still won many of those matches and still leads the head to head.
This is actually supposed to be good?
Oh the irony.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
She beat her in Tokyo at 37 captain video. Possibly 36. Better try a different source than Wikipedia :roll:
Again you fail. Just because she did not win majors in the 2000's does not mean she was not in her prime. If it was not for the wiliams sisters she probably would have been #1 for a while. What were the rankings in the 2000's? I'm guessing davenport was 3 for many years.
Grafs 8-6 is soo much better against davenport? Including a beatdown by her at wimbledon and a retirement?
Please just give it up, cool.
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Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
According to davey25's wisdom davenport was not in her prime in the 2000's.
Fun Facts.
''Davenport finished 1998, 2001, 2004, and 2005 as the top ranked player.''
Fun Facts.
''Davenport finished 1998, 2001, 2004, and 2005 as the top ranked player.''
davey25
Banned
Yes she did beat her at 36, not 37. You continue your tradition of being wrong on yet another fact and needing to be corrected. So now that that is settled what is worse, having 1 loss to a 36 year old Navratilova (who also had many wins over Seles in her mid 30s), the late blooming legend who won almost all her slams and reached almost all her slam finals from ages 25 to 33, or having an 0-2 head to head during your prime with Sybille Bammer. You decide. Also are you so foolish to look over the list of players Serena lost to and really believing she wouldnt have lost to a 36 (or even 37 or older) year or Navratilova. I suppose you are going to suggest Bammer is a better player than a 30-something Navratilova, LOL!
LOL you sad fool. Lindsay's 3 singles slam wins were the 98 U.S Open, 99 Wimbledon, and 2000 Australian Open something any half brained tennis fan would know. That almost tops your Sabatini 29-11 head to head with Graf.
Yes Graf having missed 4 of the last 9 slam events of her career due to injury, and her losing to Appelmans, Halard Decugis, Zvereva, Tauziat, Frazier, Sugiyama, Schnyder, Kournikova, Serna, all in the last 2 years of her career (even while playing a limited schedule due to injury) was just a mirage.
Yet another foolish comment when at the time Graf retired she was ranked #3 not behind the Williams but behind Hingis and Davenport. Along with the fact Serena would not rise to a top 2 ranking until 2002.
Yes you would need to ask that as you wouldnt know yourself obviously.
Graf in her prime was 5-1 vs Davenport, and at Davenport's peak and a beaten wreck of a body/far past her own prime (regardless your delusions to the contrary) still was a respectable 3-5. So yes that is far better than 7 slam champion Venus playing Davenport for many years, nearly all when Venus was a top 5 player, many of those matches when Davenport was past her prime to boot, and still having a losing head to head vs a 3 slam champion with impressive strokes but pitiful foot speed.
Again the irony. You are just too easy. I must confess I have never had an easier punching bag then you.
davey25
Banned
Now you are resorting to the bogus WTA rankings to make your case. :lol: Does your desperation and stupidity know no boundaries?
Lets just say for the sake of argument the WTA rankings are what is most indicative of standard of play and player at a given time. You are basically saying Davenport is the greatest player of this generation, Serena is only 4th then, and Venus below Jankovic. After all:
Davenport- 4 year end #1s
Henin- 3 year end #1s
Hingis- 3 year end #1s
Serena- 2 year end #1s
Jankovic- 1 year end #1
Wow how is Serena the GOAT, she is now only the 4th greatest player of her own generation according to your new standards. Davenport with her 3 slams is now tops, since after all it isnt slam wins that matter but the year end #1.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
Ohh well, captain video lives his life through the womens game which he is clueless about. Navratilova is goat, navrtilova could beat serena, graf is probably 2nd on his list of goats. Serve and volleyers and one handers who slice only can are the real goats and would crush the current players of today.
Have you ever even played tennis captain?
I hope i don't go senile when i get old.
Have you ever even played tennis captain?
I hope i don't go senile when i get old.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
And yet you need to ask who was better from the baseline between connors and agassi :roll: You are in deep waters here.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
abmk
Bionic Poster
that is pretty close indeed ......very debatable ...not much of a difference b/w the 2.
unlike your cluelessness saying sabatini was 29-11 against graf , LOL !
deep waters ????? jeez, nice try using some "big" words ! how much time did you have to google for that ? 20 minutes ? LOL !
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
What is the difference? Pretty close? You probably were not old enough to watch both, but agassi did everything better than connors from the baseline.
Joe Pike
Banned
abmk
Bionic Poster
umm, no, I've followed agassi from 93 onwards and watched connors quite a bit.
connors moved far better at the baseline , this isn't even close
agassi had the better FH clearly, BH is debatable, return is debatable
hence overall at the baseline , it is indeed debatable.
remember we are not talking about groundstrokes alone here , we're talking about the whole package from the baseline
LOL @ you calling people not old enough to watch someone when you don't have a freakin' clue about graf ( who was in the 90s btw ) and even begin to think she could've had a losing 11-29 H2H vs sabatini ( I don't watch the WTA so much, hence don't comment much on it, but this is cluelessness at its best
)
Joe Pike
Banned
2001/02 brought a lot of uneducated folks to the sport.
No wonder, as it was the heyday of Capriati and the Williams sisters.
Joe Pike
Banned
Seles, of'course
The three most prestigious tennis titles in the world are Wimbledon, the FO and the USO. No one would deny this.
Graf has 18 of them.
Navratilova 16.
Evert 15.
Court 13.
Serena has 8 and Seles 5.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
Wow, a cluesless german crazed graf fan..
Martina Navratilova (born October 18, 1956)
1993 TOKYO (Indoors)Semis M. NAVRATILOVA defeats Graf 4-6 6-3 6-3
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
davey25
Banned
I think that is an accurate accessment comparing the two from the baseline. I am not sure how anyone rational would have a problem with it, unless they were a huge oversensitive Agassi fanboy.
davey25
Banned
Tokyo is in February 1993. Basic math is a helpful skill to have. By the way Seles your 2nd womens GOAT lost 4 times to a 34-36 year old Navratilova, including losing to 36 year old Navratilova a month after this match. I guess you wont say anything about that though.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
Connors did have great footwork
Go make a poll on who's backhand or return was better, and get laughed at..
Obviously clueless, hence needing to start threads on it.
Agassi= better forehand, better backhand, better return.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
Joe Pike
Banned
LOL!
You are so dumb that you don't even realize when you hang yourself ...
It's no fun anymore to ragdoll retards like you.
Joe Pike
Banned
Graf with 18 Wim/FO/USO titles has a better claim than players like Serena with 8 or Seles with 5.
But you think Serena and Seles are the two greatest ever.
And who among the men?
Roddick and Blake??
davey25
Banned
In 3 of those 4 losses she was 17 and 18, you know the exact same ages you were mocking Graf for losing a few matches to a 29 and 30 year old Navratilova at. At the time of the 4th loss she was 19.
Joe Pike
Banned
abmk
Bionic Poster
really ????? you are a JOKE of the highest order ! Go ahead with the poll if you are so interested ... From what I've seen its pretty close.
The people in the forum believe the same too , as I've seen from their posts regarding this
Atleast making a poll at something asking for opinion of people is nowhere as bad as talking about a player ( graf ) about whom you have no clue !! H2H vs sabatini is 11-29, LMAO !!!!
better FH obviously, BH and return are debatable ! And you're clueless enough to neglect movement which forms a big part of baseline play
davey25
Banned
anointedone
Banned
Actually I made these last 2 polls especialy for you with that intent in mind and it has sure gone exactly as I expected. :lol: So now the TW public opinion on things like polls is suddenly so valued by you? Do you realize the corner you just painted yourself into.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
Lol your bandwagon lynching about sabatini isn't working. You're just following into a trap revealing your clueless thoughts. Please start a poll who's return or backhand is better, please add nalbandian into it.
It's a moot point considering those two i think. It's not like agassi was slow and connors was so fast.
Lionheart392
Professional
Another interesting stat:
Number of times at least 3 slams won in a year
Graf 5
Serena 1
Number of times at least 3 slams won in a year
Graf 5
Serena 1
anointedone
Banned
Yes Agassi was so much better than Connors, that is why a 19 year old Agassi had to go 5 sets with a 37 year old Connors and got fed a bagel. Even more interestingly that is why in 1991 a 21 year old Agassi was straight setted out of the tournament in the 1st round (by Aaron Krickstein of all people) by the same guy who Connors beat him in the 4th round on his way to the semis. 21 year old Agassi and 39 year old Connors sharing the same quarter of the draw and Connors the one who goes through, Agassi the one who doesnt even win a match. You are big on this whole age thing after all arent you? I love how you just set all your own traps.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
abmk
Bionic Poster
lying ??? LMAO ! you posted something clueless and now you say others are lying, Nice try !
regarding the polls, if I do put them up, what if the results/views are that they are quite close ?
the difference is pretty much significant
anointedone
Banned
You sad pathetic tool, you are the last one who has any place to tell anyone else their views are meaningless. :lol:
I already explained my vote for Henin wasnt a serious one. However since you insist on grasping that pathetic straw, if even Crapriati is better than Graf (LOL) then Henin must be the a serious female GOAT candidate considering in her pre prime days she was already schooling Capriati. Also Henin in the last 7 years has won the same # of slams (7 each) and has a winning head to head both overall and in slams in that span as Serena, your so called female GOAT. You do enjoy backing yourself into these corners dont you.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
kiki
Banned
So, Se-lena has 13 and equals Court.
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