Who realistically stops Nadal

Pantera

Banned
I think you should be more tolerant of other people's viewpoints. I don't see Nadal as fav as long as Djokovic is in the draw, simple.

And your question is about who can realistically stop Nadal and I think realistically Federer can.
I like to discuss..this is a forum for discussion.

If there are other topics you wish to discuss im happy to chat, I always enjoy our chats, but I thought so close to USO this was on topic.
 

Pantera

Banned
Any time a user who isn't a Rafa fanatic dares even suggest Rafa won't win something, this user goes into full attack mode.

It is amusing, true, but not constructive.
I think you have described Federer fans there. If it is mentioned he has not won the UO in over 10 years, a factual statement, the responses range from hostile to abusive ….
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
I think you have described Federer fans there. If it is mentioned he has not won the UO in over 10 years, a factual statement, the responses range from hostile to abusive ….
All fangroups do it, I was referring to your defensiveness, hence gave Rafa as an example. You are a Rafa fan, so why would I use Rublev as an example?
 

FRV2

Semi-Pro
I actually find it hard to tell the odds between Djokovic and Federer in regards to taking out Nadal. My guess is that a match between Fed and Nadal would be 50/50. But Federer will have to get to the match and be placed on the same side of the draw as Nadal. Then, when it comes to Djokovic, will he be facing Nadal in the final, or Federer? Also if Federer is placed on the same side of the draw as Djokovic, I would give Fed a 25% chance at taking him out (Edit: again, if he makes it to the match). Not to mention that in his current form, Djokovic also needs to watch out for the likes of Thiem and Medvedev. And don't count out Zverev.
I think you guys may have missed this post? It was sheer brilliance on display.
 

Pantera

Banned
They don't reply to you because they don't have a thing called pity...

I do have pity. That's why I reply.
Have you read the terms and conditions re trolling? I ask as your last dozen or so posts have 0 tennis content in them.

Try to stay on topic, USO is coming up so make your case in a constructive manner for Federer.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Have you read the terms and conditions re trolling? I ask as your last dozen or so posts have 0 tennis content in them.

Try to stay on topic, USO is coming up so make your case in a constructive manner for Federer.
I never said RF will win.

That proves you don't actually pay attention to my posts.

You are confusing me with some other user. I made it plain on several threads that Djokovic is the biggest favourite, then RF, then Rafa.
 

Pantera

Banned
I never said RF will win.

That proves you don't actually pay attention to my posts.

You are confusing me with some other user. I made it plain on several threads that Djokovic is the biggest favourite, then RF, then Rafa.
There you go...you put Federer ahead of nadal..that's where your whole argument fails. I have asked you to back up why you think Federer is in the mix? If he cannot win Wimbledon, or Cincinatti, how is he winning UO? Or even making the final?
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
I like to discuss..this is a forum for discussion.

If there are other topics you wish to discuss im happy to chat, I always enjoy our chats, but I thought so close to USO this was on topic.
I enjoy talking to you also, you know that. At the end of the day, I don't see an issue if you feel Nadal is fav, my viewpoint is simply different, I see Djokovic as the top guy. So to me, Novak is the guy to stop. Now, best is that we agree that our views are different for different reasons on this topic. At the end, the USO will answer all questions.
 
Federer has no chance, and on current form Djokovic only a slim chance.

This event is Nadal's to lose, you cannot overestimate the confidence soar he will have from Canada given the guy he beat in final.
Yeah,
The same guy who lost 1-6 4-6 to a version of federer, who forgot how to serve, couldn't return & couldn't hit a non-loopy FH...
 

Pantera

Banned
I enjoy talking to you also, you know that. At the end of the day, I don't see an issue if you feel Nadal is fav, my viewpoint is simply different, I see Djokovic as the top guy. So to me, Novak is the guy to stop. Now, best is that we agree that our views are different for different reasons on this topic. At the end, the USO will answer all questions.
Ive no issue with anyone saying Djokovic favourite, just gave my views as to why I have Nadal.

Anyway, I would like to move on to discuss court speed and bounce, has anyone been able to find speed index and bounce height data and what balls are being used. I wont bother looking at weather forecast given im waiting for a weather forecast to be accurate 24 hrs ahead this summer!
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
There you go...you put Federer ahead of nadal..that's where your whole argument fails. I have asked you to back up why you think Federer is in the mix? If he cannot win Wimbledon, or Cincinatti, how is he winning UO? Or even making the final?
It's not an argument, it's an opinion.

A very educated opinion.

Regarding your Federer comments, there is nothing else to be added. Your distaste for him is duly noted. We get it.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Ive no issue with anyone saying Djokovic favourite, just gave my views as to why I have Nadal.

Anyway, I would like to move on to discuss court speed and bounce, has anyone been able to find speed index and bounce height data and what balls are being used. I wont bother looking at weather forecast given im waiting for a weather forecast to be accurate 24 hrs ahead this summer!
I think there is a thread here I was reading earlier that it is faster than last year and lower bouncing. Beyond that I personally haven't much about thr conditions.
 

Pantera

Banned
You asked who can!
And these guys surely can beat him.
I can't say Whether they will beat him or not..
And healthy in form nadal is unbeatable, no!!??
Ok, lets analyse a bit as its interesting.

Djokovic.....of course so no need to discuss that one
Federer.....where is the recent evidence unless court is very low bouncing
Thiem.….in a SF? His first outside paris...cant see it personally
Khachanov...…..Nadal a bad match up for him
Fogini....2015 a one off and that was Nadallite
Tsitsipas...it seems clay his best surface and over 5 sets he is not strong enough.
Kyrgios...no chance at all. New York crowd will get him defaulted anyway against Nadal or Federer.
FAA...maybe in a couple of years, not this year. too soon.
 

Pantera

Banned
I think there is a thread here I was reading earlier that it is faster than last year and lower bouncing. Beyond that I personally haven't much about thr conditions.
The height of bounce for me is the key. I am surprised if it keeps low as Isner loves high bouncing courts and he is USA big mouthpiece I think, more so than Querrey.
 
Supposed to be? Based on what?

No, I am here to be objective. If facts go against a player I favour, I will say it. Not interested in fanboy wars that rage on...
You took it wrong way.
Well, I meant to say that I thought you were a djok fan.
And so nice to see an objective person who happens to be a nole fan..
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
The height of bounce for me is the key. I am surprised if it keeps low as Isner loves high bouncing courts and he is USA big mouthpiece I think, more so than Querrey.
Here is the thread, OP talks about conditions.

 

Pantera

Banned
Most recently in Miami Masters 2019. (4-6 2-6 as well, but against a decent Roger)
But what I'm talking about is 2018 Basel ATP 500 .
Medvedev is a totally different player now though. Its why I keep saying when judging who is favourite it is pointless to look back further than say 2 months.
 

FRV2

Semi-Pro
@Pantera have you read my latest posts? Sheer brilliance. All I need are the following stats to answer the question:

1. Chance that Fed is placed on Nadal's side of the draw (50%)
2. Chance that Fed gets through the field to face Nadal or Djokovic in the semis (75%)
3. Chance that Djoker gets through the field (90%)
4. Chance that Djoker beats Nadal if they meet in the final (70%)

So now let me do the math. Some stats pulled from previous post. This is all opinion.
Chance that Fed takes out Nadal is (75% x 50% x 50% + 75% x 50% x 25% x 50%) / 2 = 11.7%
Chance that Djokovic takes out Nadal is (90% x 75% x 70% + 90% x 75%) / 2 = 57.3%

Uh, I think I did something wrong...
 

Pantera

Banned
You took it wrong way.
Well, I meant to say that I thought you were a djok fan.
And so nice to see an objective person who happens to be a nole fan..
Just on Thiem...although he lost last year to Nadal i nan absolute epic..that 6-0 set could play a part if they meet. I know if I play a match and win but lost a set 0-6, next time I face the guy it does weigh on my mind a bit, so Thiem perhaps is a shout along with Djokovic.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
You took it wrong way.
Well, I meant to say that I thought you were a djok fan.
And so nice to see an objective person who happens to be a nole fan..
I am also a Rafa fan. And RF is OK too. Big Delpo fan.

I can't stoop to the level of fanboy worship for any amount of money. It's silly to defend a player's chances/greatness/whatever at all cost, when facts speak against it.
 

Pantera

Banned
@Pantera have you read my latest posts? Sheer brilliance. All I need are the following stats to answer the question:

1. Chance that Fed is placed on Nadal's side of the draw (50%)
2. Chance that Fed gets through the field to face Nadal or Djokovic in the semis (75%)
3. Chance that Djoker gets through the field (90%)
4. Chance that Djoker beats Nadal if they meet in the final (70%)

So now let me do the math. Some stats pulled from previous post. This is all opinion.
Chance that Fed takes out Nadal is (75% x 50% x 50% + 75% x 50% x 25% x 50%) / 2 = 11.7%
Chance that Djokovic takes out Nadal is (90% x 75% x 70% + 90% x 75%) / 2 = 57.3%

Uh, I think I did something wrong...
What exactly am I reading here? Is this some statistical model
 

Pantera

Banned
I am also a Rafa fan. And RF is OK too. Big Delpo fan.

I can't stoop to the level of fanboy worship for any amount of money. It's silly to defend a player's chances/greatness/whatever at all cost, when facts speak against it.
How is Nadal not factually at worse 2nd favourite?

At least we agree on one thing...Delpo!
 
Ok, lets analyse a bit as its interesting.

Djokovic.....of course so no need to discuss that one
Federer.....where is the recent evidence unless court is very low bouncing
Thiem.….in a SF? His first outside paris...cant see it personally
Khachanov...…..Nadal a bad match up for him
Fogini....2015 a one off and that was Nadallite
Tsitsipas...it seems clay his best surface and over 5 sets he is not strong enough.
Kyrgios...no chance at all. New York crowd will get him defaulted anyway against Nadal or Federer.
FAA...maybe in a couple of years, not this year. too soon.
The most recent evidence is Sunshine Double 2017, 2018 & 2019.
Federer did better than nadal every single edition and beat him twice as well.
In fact, nadal didn't play against roger in IW2019 otherwise it was going to be another victory for Roger over Rafa on a slow, high bouncing HC..

For Khachanov, Nadal isn't a bad matchup at all, it's his lack of clutchness which favours nadal. He was 2 points away on his serve from Going 2-0 against nadal in 2018 USO IIRC.... If anything, he's a bad matchup for nadal, as despite losing, Karen tires out Rafa by forcing him into hours long ballbashing grindfest

Fognini has a realistic chance if he plays anything closer to Montreal 1st set.

Tsitsipas will stand a good chance, especially after the confidence booster he got at Madrid masterd SF this year..

I didn't even mention Kyrgious.

FAA on a hot day can really take it to nadal. Yeah he's inconsistent given age, but still...
 
Medvedev is a totally different player now though. Its why I keep saying when judging who is favourite it is pointless to look back further than say 2 months.
No,
He's the same player he was on HC season pre Clay..
Clay & Grass aren't his field yet, so he was MIA. But as soon as HC season started, he's back
 

Pantera

Banned
You are asking for an endless pointless conversation, patiently waiting for me to insult you so you can get me banned or warned.

Right?

Ain't happening.

Now back to tennis...
I have only ever reported one person, and that was because I deemed his post to be racist in nature.

Why would you explaining why you feel Federer is a contender be deemed as an insult to me exactly?
Had Federer won Cincinatti, id have him in the mix, but I actually did have a thread removed as it was considered baiting where I said before his Rublev match I thought he was way off form and his BH was going to be an issue.
 
Just on Thiem...although he lost last year to Nadal i nan absolute epic..that 6-0 set could play a part if they meet. I know if I play a match and win but lost a set 0-6, next time I face the guy it does weigh on my mind a bit, so Thiem perhaps is a shout along with Djokovic.
To be quite honest, lack of clutch from thiem combined with extreme clutchness from Rafa turned the match on it's head, which was otherwise going to be a straight set beatdown of an ATG at his 2nd best slam...
 

Pantera

Banned
The most recent evidence is Sunshine Double 2017, 2018 & 2019.
Federer did better than nadal every single edition and beat him twice as well.
In fact, nadal didn't play against roger in IW2019 otherwise it was going to be another victory for Roger over Rafa on a slow, high bouncing HC..

For Khachanov, Nadal isn't a bad matchup at all, it's his lack of clutchness which favours nadal. He was 2 points away on his serve from Going 2-0 against nadal in 2018 USO IIRC.... If anything, he's a bad matchup for nadal, as despite losing, Karen tires out Rafa by forcing him into hours long ballbashing grindfest

Fognini has a realistic chance if he plays anything closer to Montreal 1st set.

Tsitsipas will stand a good chance, especially after the confidence booster he got at Madrid masterd SF this year..

I didn't even mention Kyrgious.

FAA on a hot day can really take it to nadal. Yeah he's inconsistent given age, but still...
Madrid is at altitude, at sea level the following week Nadal crushed him in straights.

Nadal would have beat Federer in IW, if Thiem beat him it is madness to think nadal wouldn't given he is a better HC player than Thiem! Not sure where you got a sunshine double for Federer in 2019 from, and frankly going back 18 months is irrelevant. Of far more relevance is nadal has outperformed Federer at the last two HC Majors. Khachanov I believe has 1 set v Nadal his whole career..bad matchup I call that.

Fogini is not beating Nadal over 5 sets, absolutely not a chance.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
How is Nadal not factually at worse 2nd favourite?

At least we agree on one thing...Delpo!
I have only ever reported one person, and that was because I deemed his post to be racist in nature.

Why would you explaining why you feel Federer is a contender be deemed as an insult to me exactly?
Had Federer won Cincinatti, id have him in the mix, but I actually did have a thread removed as it was considered baiting where I said before his Rublev match I thought he was way off form and his BH was going to be an issue.
I never did that. Re-re-re-re-re-read my posts. All of them.

You have plenty of USOs won by players who didn't win any warm-up events.

You want me to list them?
 

Pantera

Banned
To be quite honest, lack of clutch from thiem combined with extreme clutchness from Rafa turned the match on it's head, which was otherwise going to be a straight set beatdown of an ATG at his 2nd best slam...
At a Major id say clutch is about 65% of what it takes.
 

Pantera

Banned
I never did that. Re-re-re-re-re-read my posts. All of them.

You have plenty of USOs won by players who didn't win any warm-up events.

You want me to list them?
So oyu are saying a player who has not performed well in lead up to a major has more chance than players who have?
 
Madrid is at altitude, at sea level the following week Nadal crushed him in straights.

Nadal would have beat Federer in IW, if Thiem beat him it is madness to think nadal wouldn't given he is a better HC player than Thiem! Not sure where you got a sunshine double for Federer in 2019 from, and frankly going back 18 months is irrelevant. Of far more relevance is nadal has outperformed Federer at the last two HC Majors. Khachanov I believe has 1 set v Nadal his whole career..bad matchup I call that.

Fogini is not beating Nadal over 5 sets, absolutely not a chance.
I told about federer's form in sunshine double 2019..
And nope, nadal stood no chance in that possible match against Roger. If he had slightest of a chance, he would not have ducked him
 
Top