Who thinks Fed would play better with a 95" racquet?

[jelle v]

see above post.

So you're trying to prove your point based on judging one match of many? I'm not only saying that he is shanking a lot of forehands, I'm also saying that even during and since the AO his forehand has simply been off. He's is missing a lot of them. He especially has been hitting a lot of forehand long.

 

[nBladed]

Breakpoint,

thanks for the explanation. I am starting to understand that their a lot about tennis manufacturing that I don't know. I keep thinking that to make a graphite racket involves braiding graphite materials that when you drill a hole into would chip like crazy and be nearly unusable.

 

[haerdalis]

Federer is actually shanking less now than he was a few years ago, much less. The difference is that as of late he has been shanking forehands. We can only speculate as to why but I doubt it is because of the racquet.
I havent really looked closely at his kfactor racquet but I have noticed that kfactor 90's have a thicker beam than the tour 90's, especially so in the direction of the strings.

 

[drakulie]

He shanked WAY more balls than Ferrer in this match! What about that? Why don't you rewind the tape, watch it again 3x and tell me how many shanks there were?

Didn't watch the match. Shanked balls or not >>> he won.

 

[drakulie]

So you're trying to prove your point based on judging one match of many? I'm not only saying that he is shanking a lot of forehands, I'm also saying that even during and since the AO his forehand has simply been off. He's is missing a lot of them. He especially has been hitting a lot of forehand long.

You must of wathced a different AO than I did this year. He was absolutely killing the ball. If he would have been shanking so many balls, or mishitting, or hitting so many shorts balls during that tournament he would have paid the price and at minimum dropped a set. He didn't.

 

[sureshs]

I can think of a least three tour players that come to mind - Hewitt, that up and coming American kid who is originally from Serbia I think, also saw a French player using a 90 Prestige.

Hewitt I already mentioned (the other 90 user). Some claim the 93 of head is a 90, I don't know. TW lists the PC600 as a 93. 93 is not the same as 90.

 

[BreakPoint]

Hewitt I already mentioned (the other 90 user). Some claim the 93 of head is a 90, I don't know. TW lists the PC600 as a 93. 93 is not the same as 90.

I'm guessing that's because you've never actually held a PC600 in your hands? It is actually 89.5 sq. in. I've held one against my nCode 90 and the PC600's head was smaller.

 

[BreakPoint]

BTW, that "other 90 user", Hewitt, nearly ended Nadal's 80 match winning streak on the slowest of red clay at Hamburg today. So much for 90 sq. in. racquets being useless on clay.

 

[sureshs]

BTW, that "other 90 user", Hewitt, nearly ended Nadal's 80 match winning streak on the slowest of red clay at Hamburg today. So much for 90 sq. in. racquets being useless on clay.

How do you know he would not have won it if he had used a 95?

On Monday, you can look at this way - two 90 guys challenged Nadal, one in semifinal and one in final, but both lost.

Hopefully not. I really want Federer to pull of this one. If he gets hammered again, he might just as well skip the FO.

 

[drakulie]

I'm guessing that's because you've never actually held a PC600 in your hands? It is actually 89.5 sq. in. I've held one against my nCode 90 and the PC600's head was smaller.

Agreed. No way the Prestige is 93. I hadn't realized the head was a 90 until playing with the tour for the first a few weeks back. It is actually a tiny bit smaller than the K90.

 

[BreakPoint]

How do you know he would not have won it if he had used a 95?

1. Hewitt's worst surface is clay.

2. How many clay court experts with 95 or bigger racquets have beaten Nadal on clay in the past 2 years?

3. How many clay court experts with 95 or bigger racquets have even come as close as Hewitt did in beating Nadal on clay in the past 2 years?

 

[drakulie]

How do you know he would not have won it if he had used a 95?

On Monday, you can look at this way - two 90 guys challenged Nadal, one in semifinal and one in final, but both lost.

Hopefully not. I really want Federer to pull of this one. If he gets hammered again, he might just as well skip the FO.

suresh, during Nadals 80+ winning streak on clay he beat many players that play with larger frames. It's not the frame that is losing these mathces>>> it's Nadal beating his opponents.

 

[Jonnyf]

I'm guessing that's because you've never actually held a PC600 in your hands? It is actually 89.5 sq. in. I've held one against my nCode 90 and the PC600's head was smaller.

Snapped a quick pic of my PC over my SRD Tour 90

 

[sureshs]

suresh, during Nadals 80+ winning streak on clay he beat many players that play with larger frames. It's not the frame that is losing these mathces>>> it's Nadal beating his opponents.

Who said it wasn't?

Davydenko pushed Nadal hard too, and he doesn't use a 90 like Hewitt does.

And I am not sure how many of Nadal's opponents use a headsize > 100.

Looking at the small number of 90 users, including the world #1, none of them can beat Nadal. Yes everyone else loses to him too, but one can't help feeling that if Fed used something else, he may have an easier time.

 

[sureshs]

1. Hewitt's worst surface is clay.

2. How many clay court experts with 95 or bigger racquets have beaten Nadal on clay in the past 2 years?

3. How many clay court experts with 95 or bigger racquets have even come as close as Hewitt did in beating Nadal on clay in the past 2 years?

Didn't Davydenko do exceptionally well against Nadal?

 

[drakulie]

but one can't help feeling that if Fed used something else, he may have an easier time.

Sorry, but this is an extermely foolish statement in my opinion. If it was really that easy, then I'm quite certain Fed would switch to a 95?. Then, if he beats Nadal with a 95, Nadal would use the same strategy and switch to a 105. Then, Fed would switch to 110. etc, etc, etc.

Has it ever occurred to you that Nadal is just better than everyone (regardless of the frame size), on clay? Hhmmmmmm????. It's just a theory of mine, but you may want to give it some thought.

Do you go to a larger frame each and every time you lose a match? You must be playing with a 10,000 square inch frame.

 

[@wright]

I love the geniuses we have around here. They must come up with some brilliant conclusions in their own life...If you have a car accident, does that mean you should drive a smaller car? If your significant other leaves you, should you go for a lower quality mate to lessen the chances of it happening again? Have you seen how often Fed hits a shot that clips the line? With a bigger frame he wouldn't have the same control.

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

Sorry, but I just can't resist saying this again................

So, am I to understand that there are people on this board who seek to counsel the World's Best Tennis Player (and perhaps the best tennis player, EVER) concerning his choice of gear?

Just want to be sure I am clear on this issue.

CC

 

[Rabbit]

CC, I think you've got it....

 

[All Courts]

Looking at the small number of 90 users, including the world #1, none of them can beat Nadal. Yes everyone else loses to him too, but one can't help feeling that if Fed used something else, he may have an easier time.

Yes, and Itzhak Perlman should switch to cello because the larger finger spacing will make it infinitely easier for him to play higher on the neck. Silly violinists.

 

[drakulie]

Yes, and Itzhak Perlman should switch to cello because the larger finger spacing will make it infinitely easier for him to play higher on the neck. Silly violinists.

Actually, he is probably better off playing the bass with a german bow.

 

[BreakPoint]

Didn't Davydenko do exceptionally well against Nadal?

So that's one. And would have Davydenko beaten Nadal if he used a 145 sq. in. racquet? No, he would have lost even worse.

Oh, BTW, clay is Davydenko's best surface, whereas, it's Hewitt's worst surface. Yet Hewitt almost beat Nadal with a much smaller racquet than Davydenko's.

 

[vsbabolat]

You guys forget that Hewitt with his 90 sq.inch racquet defeated Davydenko 6-4,2-6,6-4 in the Third Round in Hamburg this week.

 

[WChiang]

Sorry, but I just can't resist saying this again................

So, am I to understand that there are people on this board who seek to counsel the World's Best Tennis Player (and perhaps the best tennis player, EVER) concerning his choice of gear?

Just want to be sure I am clear on this issue.

CC

I think Fed needs to go to either a Volkl T10DNX "supermid" or maybe a Volkl 98" frame to get his game back and become good again and stop shanking balls when its windy.

Only kidding.....CC of course you are right.

 

[jackcrawford]

Sorry, but this is an extermely foolish statement in my opinion. If it was really that easy, then I'm quite certain Fed would switch to a 95?. Then, if he beats Nadal with a 95, Nadal would use the same strategy and switch to a 105. Then, Fed would switch to 110. etc, etc, etc.

Has it ever occurred to you that Nadal is just better than everyone (regardless of the frame size), on clay? Hhmmmmmm????. It's just a theory of mine, but you may want to give it some thought.

Do you go to a larger frame each and every time you lose a match? You must be playing with a 10,000 square inch frame.

Tiger Woods had to give up the feel of his beloved small Titleist driver for the forgiveness of the big Nike one when he went a year without winning a stroke play tournament and lost his #1 ranking to Singh; he had been winning in spite of it, not because of it. If the K90 was that great a frame for top-level competition, other pros would use it - the 95 wilson in all its forms has dozens of ATP, WTA, and Challenger tour adherents while the 90 has Fed and an obscure WTAer. Fed wins tournaments, or should I say, won tournaments, in spite of it, not because of it.

 

[BreakPoint]

Fed wins tournaments, or should I say, won tournaments, in spite of it, not because of it.

So do other pros like Bjorkman get spanked by Federer every time because of his 95 Wilson or in spite of it? Perhaps if Bjorkman switched to the 90 he would have a better chance against Federer?

 

[drakulie]

Fed wins tournaments, or should I say, won tournaments, in spite of it, not because of it.

Your post does not only apply to Federer>>> It applies to everyone on the ATP tour.


Oh by the way, just watched the Moya/Fed match. Here are the numbers:

Shanks:
Fed: 4 FH, 3 BH= 7 total
Moya: 7 FH, 2 BH= 9 total

Winners
Fed: 23 FH, 7 BH = 30 total
Moya: 12 FH, 5 BH= 17 total

Should Moya switch from his Babolat to something larger? :roll:

 

[flyboy1]

I can't believe that anyone here would think that because Federer "switched" to a new racket that he would start shanking more balls. Even if Federer is actually playing with a different racket than last year, don't you think that they would make it to be the same weight, swing weight, balance point, etc. so as to not play any different than his previous racket? And besides, going from a 88sq. in. racket to a 90 sq. in. racket should have helped him, right? It seemed to be the consensus on this forum (though hotly contested) that the nCode was 88 sq. in. So if the K90 that Fed uses is 90, wouldn't that be bigger than his alleged racket size that he used previously? I don't see how a racket that is so highly customized to a players desired specs can all of the sudden create a case of the shanks. Perhaps there is a little glitch in his swing. Sometimes shanks come as a result of lack of confidence. Sometimes, as posted earlier, shanks come on clay because Federer plays so close to the baseline and clay is prone to bad bounces. Who knows the real reason "why". But it seems less likely to be the racket than something else.

As far as Jon Wertheim is concerned.....there are way more highly informed people on this forum that have access to insider information than some SI writer.

 

[haerdalis]

The most notorious shanker in recent history was Cedric Pioline. Alex Corretja shanked a few too. IMO it has to do with how the pass the contact zone and all of these players have a lot happening there.

 

[alan-n]

Federer has access and has already tried every frame makeup possible. Considering his success by himself, without a coach. Its a safe bet that Federer knows whats best for his game and has access to the best people in the business in regards to what equipment he should use and at what tension. Federer is using what is best for him. Bigger racquet, Smaller Racquet, Gut, Poly, hybrids, different string spacing. Federer has already tried them all and decided whats works best. 10 Grand Slams prove it.

 

[jetlee2k]

oh man, I just can't believe what I am reading this.. It is not the racquet.. and it is not the size.. I own both K90 and K95 and I used to play with 100 and more square inch racquet.. I am a no boday player but I can tell you this, I play much better and hit the ball much much cleaner on K90 than any other racquet. K95 somehow the weight balance is not the same as K90. I even added 3g @ 3,9 & 12 and 10 g in the handle. Fed needs some confidence. He seems his mental focus is not there. At some big points unlike it before, he starts shanking more b/c he's not confidence about his strokes. He also needs some patience again clay court players. I think he's already knew it and trying to fix his game plan.

 

[djones]

Schuettler experimented with the Flexpoint Radical midplus for a few months in 2005 then he switched back to the Prestige Classic 600. He has used the Prestige Classic 600 ever since.

Here are some Pictures of Schuettler using the Prestige Classic 600 from the 2007 Hamburg Masters, 2007 BMW Open, 2007 Indian Wells, and 2007 Dubai.

You will note that Rainer's Prestige Classic 600 has the new stencil from this year on the strings. Also Rainer's PC600 has a collar above the grip. The 630 cm2 head size racquet never had a collar and the XL version of the Prestige Classic 600 also did not have a collar.

Are you sure?
To me it looks like a 98 square inch racquet, and not the Prestige Classic 600!

 

[laurie]

I've been watching Federer closely since 2001. He has always shanked balls from time to time - it's nothing unusual.

For a brief period in 2002 Federer was playing with a Pro Staff 95. In 2001 he used a Pro Staff 85. From 2003 onwards he has settled with a 90 head size.

I think Tenez Sport makes the best assessmnet so far about Federer's problems.

 

[All Courts]

Actually, he is probably better off playing the bass with a german bow.

Hell, might as well bite the bullet and become the percussionist who bashes the gong!

 

[vsbabolat]

Are you sure?
To me it looks like a 98 square inch racquet, and not the Prestige Classic 600!

I am not sure. I am Positive that Schuettler's racquet is the Prestige Classic 600!!

 

[Azzurri]

You're absolutely right. Federer did help to design his current racquet and he probably did go through many molds and prototypes. However, all of this happened in 2002 when he switched from the PS 6.0 85 to his current racquet. He's been using the same racquet ever since.

BP makes sense...think about it, why would Fed switch racquets after winning 6-7 GS and countless tourneys? He has been dominate. He never switched racquets. We finally have his "type" of racquet. Fed just came back to earth..that's all. The guy has barely lost the past 2 1/2 years. That kind of winning places and extreme amount of pressure. Maybe that's why Pete was no where near as concerned with regular events as he was with major ones. Fed seems to put a lot of pressure on himself to win all tournaments. The guy could be a little burned out with all of his off-court charity and what nots. Its a phase. He will probably win Wimby and most likely the USO. Its not the racquet.

 

[drakulie]

Should Nadal switch to a larger frame???

SHANKS
Fed: 1 FH, 2BH= 3 total
Nadal: 4 FH, 1 BH = 5 total

WINNERS
Fed: 15 FH, 2 BH= 17 total
Nadal: 5 FH, 5BH= 10 total

BAGELS
Fed= zero
Nadal= one

 

[jackcrawford]

Should Nadal switch to a larger frame???

SHANKS
Fed: 1 FH, 2BH= 3 total
Nadal: 4 FH, 1 BH = 5 total

WINNERS
Fed: 15 FH, 2 BH= 17 total
Nadal: 5 FH, 5BH= 10 total

BAGELS
Fed= zero
Nadal= one

Becker serves with a forehand grip and lands on his right foot - he serves well despite it, or to put it another way, it suits him and no other top pro. Fed is the same way - the racquet still suits him, but not other pros. There is no reason it can't also suit you and other high-level club players. My only point is that it is not necessarily a good idea to model yourself on an exception.

 

[jackcrawford]

You're absolutely right. Federer did help to design his current racquet and he probably did go through many molds and prototypes. However, all of this happened in 2002 when he switched from the PS 6.0 85 to his current racquet. He's been using the same racquet ever since.

So you've dropped the "artart" Tony Roche PS85 story, which you once believed despite its obvious implausibility?

 

[NoBadMojo]

Tiger Woods had to give up the feel of his beloved small Titleist driver for the forgiveness of the big Nike one when he went a year without winning a stroke play tournament and lost his #1 ranking to Singh; he had been winning in spite of it, not because of it. If the K90 was that great a frame for top-level competition, other pros would use it - the 95 wilson in all its forms has dozens of ATP, WTA, and Challenger tour adherents while the 90 has Fed and an obscure WTAer. Fed wins tournaments, or should I say, won tournaments, in spite of it, not because of it.

nice post..unfortunately in threads like these, your sound logic is lost

 

[drakulie]

Anyway you "experts" want to cut it, Fed beat one of the best clay courters of all time today on CLAY, with a smaller frame than Nadal. Additionally, Nadal with a larger frame had more shanks, more errors, and less winners. Fed also absolutely destroyed Nadal in the 3rd set 6-0. So much for demanding frames, and not being able to swing them late in matches during "adverse" conditions. Bye, Bye!

 

[BreakPoint]

So you've dropped the "artart" Tony Roche PS85 story, which you once believed despite its obvious implausibility?

Huh? Not at all. Roche said that the racquet that Federer is using is essentially a ProStaff but with a bigger head, which is what the K90 is pretty close to. Roche never claimed that Federer was using a PS 6.0 85 (while he was coaching him). Please check your facts.

In fact, I just found ART ART's original post:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=777638&postcount=1

Excerpt:
"About the nCode of Roger, when I ask him about the composition of the rackett, he told me:" ... this his a copy of the legendary ProStaff 85 but with a larger head size, nothing else, because Roger plays with that racket since he was 15 or 16 years old, but because of clay courts 4 or 5 years ago, Roger have asked Wilson to make the same racket but with a bigger head size."

 

[WChiang]

Anyway you "experts" want to cut it, Fed beat one of the best clay courters of all time today on CLAY, with a smaller frame than Nadal. Additionally, Nadal with a larger frame had more shanks, more errors, and less winners. Fed also absolutely destroyed Nadal in the 3rd set 6-0. So much for demanding frames, and not being able to swing them late in matches during "adverse" conditions. Bye, Bye!

Nice post..unfortunately in threads like these, your sound logic is lost.

 

[John Galt]

I think it is now obvious that Nadal is using too big a headsize for his skillset.

 

[drakulie]

Nice post..unfortunately in threads like these, your sound logic is lost.

Yes, it does get lost. Unfortunately, all the "experts" on this board don't know what sound logic is, much less know what is actually coming out of their mouths/keyboard.

I think it is now obvious that Nadal is using too big a headsize for his skillset.

Absolutely. Glad to see some people using sound logic.

 

[sureshs]

Everyone remember that no pro, including Federer, uses a PS 85. Not even Sampras any more. Federer said in his interview that he was missing balls in the first set and was too early on his shots. This seems to indicate he was swinging too fast and early, which is needed with an unwieldy racquet. He lost 2-6. In Rolland Garros, the ball is going to bounce even higher and with more topspin to his backhand. He better be careful because Nadal is not going to be too tired to let him comeback from a first set thrashing.

 

[bluetrain4]

I don't know if I'd trust Wertheim. Yeah, he's got more info than I do, but I don't think he's a very good or resourceful tennis writer. I mean, he never writes anything, just his weekly ad-in, ad-out, and the mailbag. Rarely any substantive articles.

Of course, the blame probably lies with SI, which doesn't devote much space to tennis. We (in America) need real tennis columnists like in Europe.

I won't hold my breath.

 

[tennis_hand]

From what I see. Fed did change his racquet to a smaller head. If you look at pictures of his ncode PJ and Kfactor PJ, the sizes seem different. I dunno maybe it's just me.

It is the color effect.

N90 with that white near PWS will look bigger.
Imagine if he has his rackets painted entirely black, you might say it is a 85 again.

 

[drakulie]

He better be careful because Nadal is not going to be too tired to let him comeback from a first set thrashing.

The one who needs to be "careful" and consider a frame change is Nadal. He is the one who had more shanks, errors, and less winners. Additionally, the one who was "exhausted" (as you pointed out) at the end of the match. Perhaps from weilding such a "heavy and demanding" frame?? LMAO!

Perhaps he should switch to a 125 square inch 5 ounce racquet?


SHANKS
Fed: 1 FH, 2BH= 3 total
Nadal: 4 FH, 1 BH = 5 total

WINNERS
Fed: 15 FH, 2 BH= 17 total
Nadal: 5 FH, 5BH= 10 total

BAGELS
Fed= zero
Nadal= one[/QUOTE]

 

[BreakPoint]

It is the color effect.

N90 with that white near PWS will look bigger.
Imagine if he has his rackets painted entirely black, you might say it is a 85 again.

That is totally true. When I look at my all black Vantage 90 next to my red/white nCode 90, the Vantage's head looks much smaller than the head on the nCode 90. But when I put one on top of the other, it turns out that the Vantage 90 is actually slightly bigger than the nCode 90. It's all just an optical illusion as the paintjob makes a big difference in how big or small a racquet looks.