dking68
G.O.A.T.
Still think Sinner is at a significantly higher level than 2010 Djokovic
Who was Better? 2010 Novak Djokovic or 2024 Jannik Sinner
- Thread starter JoshDragon
- Start date
Well yeah, I've only been looking at 08 Djokovic, which is a more interesting comparison. 2010 is obvious.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
08ovic is a good player but I think Sinner would predominantly defeat him indoors and in the USO swing. AO and sunshine double are very close between 2024 Sinner and 08 Djokovic.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
The thing about 2024 Sinner, he’s clutch. He hardly gets broken and is able to fend off break points easily. 2008 Djokovic would find it very difficult to break his serve despite having great return numbers. Let’s wait until the end of the season to reevaluate with a complete set of SGW and RGW, but from what I’ve seen, 2024 Sinner is better and clutcher
abmk
Bionic Poster
firstly asterisk era - hence inflated stats
secondly we haven't even finished Rome for this season.
AO 08/IW 08 djokovic would lay beatdowns on Sinner for example.
so would 14/16 djokovic at the AO for another example.
I mean Sinner was down 2 sets to love in AO 24 final vs a poor man's poor man's version of djokovic - Med.
abmk
Bionic Poster
dking68
G.O.A.T.
94% hold of serve sir, that’s Karlovic like
abmk
Bionic Poster
I have him at 92.9%, 31.6% for 24 so far:
its terrible level now in this era
but 2 guys who actually played well vs Sinner broke him with ease (well Med before being spent atleast broke him 3 times in 1st 2 sets) and Alcaraz broke him several times at IW
dking68
G.O.A.T.
So why Med wasn’t able to break him in Miami?
Why was Djokovic unable to generate a break point in their SF match then?
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
Fixed it for you
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
Fixed it for you
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
Bruh, what kind of a thread is this?? 2024 Sinner is even better than 2011 Djokovic!
abmk
Bionic Poster
I didn't watch that match ...
because Djokovic was very very mediocre in that AO 24 semi (including terrible in 1st 2 sets and returning badly for the whole match)?
when 23 djokovic was playing at his 23 best, he beat Sinner convincingly in the YEC final.
and 08/14/16 djokovic are well well above 23 djokovic and so is mid-18 to AO 19 djokovic.
Sinner's style just like Berdych feeds into Djokovic's when Djokovic is playing good enough (especially on HC). level is not a match for prime-ish djoko, leave alone the matchup.
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CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
Bro. You have to be on drugs to believe something like that.Fixed it for you
Nadal wins in straight sets. Probably without even losing serve.
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
Not even the Bizarro Superman is going to buy into that bull s***.
Sorry to tell you mate.
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
Actually, do you think you could kindly explain to me exactly what aspects of 2011 Djokovic's game is better than 2024 Sinner's? You are so adamant about 2011 Djokovic being so superior to 2024 Sinner, yet I am curious to know what you think about the aspects of 2011 Djokovic's game that can threaten 2024 Sinner. E.g. is it the forehand, backhand, serve? Maybe volleys? etc.Not even the Bizarro Superman is going to buy into that bull s***.
Sorry to tell you mate.
The way I see it, it's like this:
Forehand: 50/50
Backhand: Joke
Serve: Sinner BY FAR
Speed: Joke, slightly
Volleys: Sinner
Overhead: Sinner
Mental strength: Sinner
Overall, Sinner leads in the majority of categories. I don't really see how 2011 Djokovic can seriously threaten 2024 Sinner.
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
Forehand: Nadal, by a hair
Backhand: Sinner
Serve: Nadal, slightly
Speed: Nadal
Volleys: Sinner
Overhead: Sinner
Mental strength: Sinner
Again, I don't see how 2010 Nadal threatens 2024 Sinner outside of clay.
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
2024 Sinner vs 2006 Federer:
Forehand: Federer
Backhand: Sinner
Serve: Sinner
Speed: 50/50
Volleys: Sinner
Overhead: Federer
Mental strength: Sinner
Sinner wins
Forehand: Federer
Backhand: Sinner
Serve: Sinner
Speed: 50/50
Volleys: Sinner
Overhead: Federer
Mental strength: Sinner
Sinner wins
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
2011 Djokovic had better endurance, footwork, and a much better backhand (both defensively and offensively) his returning skills were miles better than Sinner.
Sinner probably has a bigger serve and a zippier forehand but he lacks the footwork and accuracy to really pose much of a threat to prime Djokovic. Unlike, let's say Roger Federer.
To beat Djokovic in 2011 you had to be able to outgrind him. Sinner can't do that.
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
Name one thing that Sinner does better than 2010 Rafa.
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
I already did lol
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
2023 ATP Finals, 2023 Davis Cup, 2024 AO: hold my GOAThood
Man, I'm sorry but you remind me too much of some salty Fedfans who were complaining (and rightfully so) about peak Djokovic vulturing wins against a considerably post-prime 32+ year old Federer. But then, Djokerfans kept insisting that Federer did not decline after 2011 and that the Swiss Maestro was still close to his prime until 2019. Some Fedfans somehow decided to buy into this nonsense, and accepted Djokovic as the new GOAT. Massive respect to them!
But now that Sinner has been dominating Djokovic, Djokerfans want to be so hypocritical as to use the age excuse to justify their idol's losses.
If you are to claim that 2011 Djokovic would "destroy" 2024 Sinner because a 36 year old Djokovic took a set off him, then you have to also admit that 2004-2007 Federer annihilates 2011, 2015 Djokovic, as old Federer was beating him a handful times.
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
I actually do agree with you on one point. 2004-07 Federer would have done well against 2011 Djokovic or 2015 Djokovic for that matter.
Sinner beating a 36 year old Djokovic is not particularly impressive, due to Djokovic's age and obvious decline in both his endurance and his explosiveness.
The fact that Djokovic was consistently beating Sinner through the end of 2023 also makes Sinner appear very weak. It took an additional decline in performance from Djokovic for him to finally breakthrough the Serbian's stranglehold over the game.
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
Djokovic beating a 30 year old Federer is not particularly impressive, due to Federer's age and obvious decline in both his endurance and his explosiveness.
The fact that Federer was consistently beating Djokovic through the end of 2010 also makes Djokovic appear very weak. It took an additional decline in performance from Federer for him to finally break through the Swiss's stranglehold over the game.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Sinner is definitely better than 2010 Djokovic was
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
Actually it doesn't, because...drum roll please...Roger Federer was not a 36 year old man in 2010.
I know. That's shocking, right?
In 2010, 29 year old Roger Feder was still more or less in his prime.
The age difference between Federer and Djokovic is six years.
The age difference between Sinner and Djokovic is fourteen years. 14 years.
If Sinner is so great, then why has he been consistently losing to a player that is 14 years his senior?
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
In what sense is Jannik Sinner mentally stronger than the Big 3? The guy almost lost to Medvedev in straight sets at the Australian Open.
Djokovic beat that guy in straight sets at the US Open, last year.
Do you know what the Big 3 would have done to Medvedev in their prime?
GabeT
Talk Tennis Guru
Teenaged Novak lost the first 4 matches he played against Federer but starting in mid 2007, when Novak turned 20 and Fed was 26, their rivalry became very close. It would remain very close until old Fed simply couldn’t keep up.
The Big 3 are comparable amongst themselves. Sinner is nowhere near the level of the Big 3 at this moment. He may get better so we will have to see how he develops
JoshDragon
Hall of Fame
That's just nonsense.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Lol.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Good job leaving out return. Also lol at giving Sinner mental strength. As for serve: you say Sinner BY FAR but then you say:
Nadal has a better Serve than Sinner? So in conclusion you think Nadal 2010 has a BY FAR better serve than Djoko 2011??
Megafanoftennis100
Hall of Fame
Actually, yes. And I don't think it is a hot-take. Just to clarify, I am using Nadal from US Open 2010, where he was serving out bombs after bombs. His serve was undoubtedly incredible at 2010 US Open. In a battle between 2011 Djokovic and 2010 Nadal at US Open, I believe that it would go to 5 sets. But perhaps I would pick 2011 Djokovic by a hair (as much as I hate to admit). 2010 Nadal had a much better serve than 2011 Djoker at USO, but the latter had much better return, which would enable him to neutralize Rafa's serves more often than not.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Well yeah ok if you cherry pick it to USO 2010 Nadal then you are right he had a better serve (saying by far is still arguable). That was the best serve performance of Nadal however and a one-off.
TheFifthSet
G.O.A.T.
The ‘08 Djoko comp aging pretty well. Sinner won the title today but, up to this point in their respective years, I’m more impressed with 08 Djokovic’s efforts.
Looks like Jannik’s match stats are starting to fall back down to earth after five close encounters in Halle. Broke 10 times in roughly 70 return games.
xFedal
Legend
| TOTALS | Match | Tiebreak | Ace% | 1stIn | 1st% | 2nd% | Hld% | SPW | Brk% | RPW | TPW | DR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Last 52 | 70-8 (90%) | 18-12 (60%) | 9.1% | 61.4% | 78.5% | 57.6% | 91.6% | 70.4% | 27.4% | 39.8% | 54.5% | 1.34 |
| hide yearly totals | show splits | |||||||||||
| 2024 | 38-3 (93%) | 8-5 (62%) | 8.6% | 62.6% | 80.0% | 58.8% | 93.6% | 72.1% | 28.7% | 40.4% | 55.5% | 1.45 |
| 2023 | 64-15 (81%) | 18-13 (58%) | 8.2% | 59.8% | 76.0% | 56.1% | 87.3% | 68.0% | 28.6% | 40.6% | 53.9% | 1.27 |
Sinner at the absolute peak of his game right now 93.6% hold half way in the season, 55.5% total points won PEAK FED LEVEL. He is clearly better than 2010 Nole.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
I guess this is a typo and you mean 2008 Djoko? Being better than 2010 Djoko is nothing to write home about and the discussion was 2008 Djoko anyways.
RS
Bionic Poster
At least 2011 and 2015 was excluded. I think some Sinner fans would be tempted even there.
TheFifthSet
G.O.A.T.
Easily better than 2010 Djokovic, yes.
However 2008 Djokovic had 88% sgw/36% rgw splits at the stage of the season Sinner is at now.
Sinner’s updated splits are probably something like 92/30 (TA hasn’t included his RG stats yet…EDIT: his splits are 92/29 after Halle).
Even just from a match stat perspective they’re not worlds apart.
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xFedal
Legend
88+36 = 124, 124/200 = 62% games won for Nole 2008, 92+30 = 122, 122/200 = 61% games won for PEAK Sinner 2024, your right 08 Nole was slightly better 62% > 61% thats the math.
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