Who was better in the HC slams: Agassi in 2004 or Djokovic in 2023?

Who was better in the HC slams: Agassi in 2004 or Djokovic in 2023?


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abmk

Bionic Poster
Who was better in the HC slams: Agassi in 2004 or Djokovic in 2023?

For me Agassi was significantly better in AO 04. It needed peak Safin 5 sets to beat him in an all time classic. Agassi had mowed through the draw before that.
Again significantly better in USO 04 as well: it needed peak fed 5 sets to beat him in a quality match (even if wind played a role). Agassi had mowed through the draw before that.
 
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abmk

Bionic Poster
Djokovic - He was a butt kicking machine in AO 2023. He was hellbent on claiming back the title he felt he never lost. USO 2023, again super impressive.

thanks for showing off your considerable bias.
 
D

Deleted member 805385

Guest
I'd say 2023 Djokovic slightly, but I can see why people would pick 2004 Agassi.
 
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Lauren_Girl'

Hall of Fame
Wait, wasn't there a thread with the exact same question last week? I posted a long answer and now I can't see it anymore. What's going on?
 

Enceladus

Legend
The answer is simple. ;)
djokovic-australian-open-2023-champions-photoshoot.jpg

75
 

zvelf

Hall of Fame
Who was better in the HC slams: Agassi in 2004 or Djokovic in 2023?

Obviously Djokovic. He won both. Agassi lost both. Sure Agassi, had tougher competition in the matches that he lost, but that just showed he had a ceiling. Djokovic winning both slams does not show a clear ceiling.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Agassi had much harder competition in the Slams that I think Djokovic would also lose to if they switched places. Nevertheless, Novak was too consistent at all the major hard court tournaments without sacrificing his top level at the Slams. Agassi was more up and down, although I think his ups were better.

It’s a long-winded way of saying Djokovic has the slight edge.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Agassi had much harder competition in the Slams that I think Djokovic would also lose to if they switched places. Nevertheless, Novak was too consistent at all the major hard court tournaments without sacrificing his top level at the Slams. Agassi was more up and down, although I think his ups were better.

It’s a long-winded way of saying Djokovic has the slight edge.

Agassi lost 1 set in 9 matches (except Safin/Fed). didn't lose a double break set vs either, but got a double break set vs both.

Djoko was down 2 sets to love vs Djere at USO 23
played well below par vs Fritz in USO 23 1st set, but ended up winning it 6-1, LMAO.

wasn't he also supposedly "injured"/"hampered" in AO 23?

the consistency argument doesn't hold for up for the HC slams.

djoko doesn't take either safin or fed to 5 sets IMO.
 
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AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Who was better in the HC slams: Agassi in 2004 or Djokovic in 2023?

Obviously Djokovic. He won both. Agassi lost both. Sure Agassi, had tougher competition in the matches that he lost, but that just showed he had a ceiling. Djokovic winning both slams does not show a clear ceiling.
This is so sad.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster

:-D :-D :-D
Djoko USO 18 isn't even particularly better than agassi USO 04. similar level, give or take.
djokovic USO 23 is well below

Djokovic AO 20 isn't even particularly better than agassi AO 04. similar level, give or take.
Djokovic AO 23 is clearly below
 
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Deleted member 805385

Guest
2023 Djokovic impressed me at the AO and the USO. It could be bias though.
 
D

Deleted member 758560

Guest
not particularly better also means, if not mistaken, slightly better, but not very much though (but still its better):giggle:
 
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abmk

Bionic Poster
Does not particularly better mean it's about the same?
similar level, give or take.
not particularly better also means, if not mistaken, slightly better, but not very much though (but still its better):giggle:

not necessarily slightly better either.
just covering all the bases from Agassi slightly better to equal to Djokovic slightly better
 
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RS

Bionic Poster
similar level, give or take.


not necessarily slightly better either.
just covering all the bases from Agassi slightly better to equal to Djokovic slightly better
Ok. I would have thought you would pick Agassi there that's all.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
And yet the poll currently indicates 2023 Djokovic being better getting twice the number of votes of 2004 Agassi being better, 60% to 30% with 10% saying about the same. That's pretty one-sided.
People are basic, it is known. Obviously going with shiny titles is the easy option.
 
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DonutBoy1128

Semi-Pro
I mean obviously it's two generations, Agassi was incredible but you have to say Djokovic, the way he destroyed everyone in AO and US open was stunning
 

FedeRadi

Rookie
Fed fan logic

2004-07 Federer destroying mediocre competiton on HC: "He was unbeatable. He would've destroyed peak Djokovic too here."

2023 Djokovic destroying mediocre competition on HC: "OMG, weak era! He would've lost against slightly better competition."
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
Voted similar. Djokovic is harder to assess as his competition was atp 250 level. Anyone can look good facing rubbish opponents.
Having said that, I do think he has the movement advantage, but Agassi probably hit the ball better and had wayyy stronger competition.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
Fed fan logic

2004-07 Federer destroying mediocre competiton on HC: "He was unbeatable. He would've destroyed peak Djokovic too here."

2023 Djokovic destroying mediocre competition on HC: "OMG, weak era! He would've lost against slightly better competition."
Two false equivalencies here. 23-26 year old Federer vs 36 year Djokovic and 04-07 competition vs 2023 competition.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Fed fan logic

2004-07 Federer destroying mediocre competiton on HC: "He was unbeatable. He would've destroyed peak Djokovic too here."

2023 Djokovic destroying mediocre competition on HC: "OMG, weak era! He would've lost against slightly better competition."

only 2006 was relatively weak
2004,05,07 all had pretty good competition.

2023 is joke competition.

also fed was at his peak in 2004-07

djokovic is 36 years old ancient in 2023.

try calling 2004-07 weak next time as a whole. I'll start calling 2011-14 as weak to give a taste of your ridiculous stuff.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Voted similar. Djokovic is harder to assess as his competition was atp 250 level. Anyone can look good facing rubbish opponents.
Having said that, I do think he has the movement advantage, but Agassi probably hit the ball better and had wayyy stronger competition.

Djoko USO 18 isn't even particularly better than agassi USO 04. similar level, give or take.
djokovic USO 23 is well below

Djokovic AO 20 isn't even particularly better than agassi AO 04. similar level, give or take.
Djokovic AO 23 is clearly below

Also djoko was down 0-2 vs Djere at the USO in 23. Also supposedly injured at AO 23, right? Or do we call him a straight up liar?
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
Djoko USO 18 isn't even particularly better than agassi USO 04. similar level, give or take.
djokovic USO 23 is well below

Djokovic AO 20 isn't even particularly better than agassi AO 04. similar level, give or take.
Djokovic AO 23 is clearly below

Also djoko was down 0-2 vs Djere at the USO in 23. Also supposedly injured at AO 23, right? Or do we call him a straight up liar?
I don’t think 04 Agassi rolls over 2023 SF/F Djokovic, he’s too solid for that. Probably gets it done in 5. Regardless of the rubbish he was facing in SF/F, he still brings his own consistent level+defence.
 
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martinezownsclay

Hall of Fame
It is so hard to compare as Agassi's competition in 2004 was literally on another planet from 2023 Djokovic, which makes it an unfair comparision for both players in a way, but having seen all 4 performances at hard court slams, I would say level wise Agassi was atleast as strong, or stronger IMO.

And this seems the perfect time to mention this, but as Djokovic fans insist and have always insisted his so called major injury at the 2023 Australian Open was real, LOL! Well all I can say to that is:

1. If he really did have some huge injury as they insist is true, insist Djokovic did not completely fabricate this injury as 99% of non Djokovic fans and even the press at the 2023 Australian Open believe, then the argument this is the worst field ever can't be disputed by these people any longer. After all Djokovic according to you DID have a major injury at the Australian Open, yet as a 35 year old with a huge injury, breezed to the title with extreme ease.

2. If Djokovic did have a huge injury at the 2023 Australian Open, then automatically Agassi's level at the 2004 Australian Open would be higher. There is no way Agassi playing at the level he was at the 2004 Australian Open, was not playing clearly better than ANY player who was handicapped by a huge injury. So if you are saying Djokovic at the 2023 Australian Open was as good or better than Agassi at the 2004 Australian Open, you are in fact now conceding Djokovic was lying altogether about having some huge injury at the 2023 Australian Open.

Just sayin. :-D :rolleyes:
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Fed fan logic

2004-07 Federer destroying mediocre competiton on HC: "He was unbeatable. He would've destroyed peak Djokovic too here."

2023 Djokovic destroying mediocre competition on HC: "OMG, weak era! He would've lost against slightly better competition."
People under extreme duress will many times create alternative realities in their minds to provide comfort against the real world

Novak’s wins have left a large group of tennis fans suffering from PTSD

:eek:
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I don’t think 04 Agassi rolls over 2023 SF/F Djokovic, he’s too solid for that. Probably gets it done in 5. Regardless of the rubbish he was facing in SF/F, he still brings his own consistent level+defence.

I don't think 04 agassi rolls over 2023 SF/F djokovic, but he gets it done in 4 competitive sets or 5-setter at the AO. I mean djokovic was begging Tsitsipas to take the 2nd set TB with bad play, but tsitispas played a horror of horrors TB.

I mean Djokovic was somewhat tiring vs Med in USO 23 (who should have taken 2nd set if not for dumb tactics allowing Djokovic to SnV freely) and went 0-2 vs Djere (not to forget a mediocre 1st set vs Fritz which he still won 6-1). Its clearer at USO that agassi 04 was better, right?
 

zvelf

Hall of Fame
Counting tiebreakers as games won or lost:

2004 AO Agassi won 109 games and lost 61 games for a ratio of 1.79 games won per game lost vs. 6 players whose average rank was 82.

2023 AO Djokovic won 136 games and lost 65 games for a ratio of 2.09 games won per game lost vs. 7 players whose average rank was 52.

2023 AO Djokovic's game win ratio is 17% better than 2004 AO Agassi's.

2004 USO Agassi won 94 games and lost 65 games for a ratio of 1.45 games won per game lost vs. 5 players whose average rank was 33.

2023 USO Djokovic won 137 games and lost 71 games for a ratio of 1.93 games won per game lost vs. 7 players whose average rank was 52.

2023 USO Djokovic's game win ratio is 33% better than 2004 USO Agassi's.

Oh, but Agassi played and lost to #1 Federer in the QF, whom 2023 Djokovic didn't have to play. Okay, let's subtract games won and lost from the Federer match for 2004 USO Agassi. Not counting the Fed match, 2004 USO Agassi won 71 games and lost 41 games for a ratio of 1.73 games won per game lost vs. 4 players whose average rank was 41.

Not counting the Fed match against Agassi, Djokovic's 1.93 ratio is still 10% better than 2004 USO Agassi's when excluding his toughest opponent while Djokovic's numbers are including his toughest opponent, Medvedev, who is in a completely different league from Agassi's round 1-4 opponents, Ginepri, Mayer, Novak, and Sargsian.

No matter how you look at it, even with losing 2 sets to Djere, 2023 Djokovic's game dominance was superior to 2004 Agassi's at the USO because Djokovic was just that much more dominant against everyone else.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
And yet the poll currently indicates 2023 Djokovic being better getting twice the number of votes of 2004 Agassi being better, 60% to 30% with 10% saying about the same. That's pretty one-sided.
LOL
Not sure if you're trolling or seriously. Djokovic wins every poll at TTW and you got to be pretty naïve NOT to take this result with a grain of salt, especially when this place are littered with bots voting for their idol.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed fan logic

2004-07 Federer destroying mediocre competiton on HC: "He was unbeatable. He would've destroyed peak Djokovic too here."

2023 Djokovic destroying mediocre competition on HC: "OMG, weak era! He would've lost against slightly better competition."
holy mother of false equivalences

and bro thought he did something too
 
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