Who was greater: 2005-07 Nadal (age 19-21) vs 2017-19 Nadal (age 31-33)?

Who's greater: 2005-07 Nadal or 2017-19 Nadal

  • Total voters
    36
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Hall of Fame
Oldal vs Babydal in a three-year span

17-19dal achieved:
- 5 slams (3 RGs & 2 USOs)
- 7 slam finals (3 RGs, 3 USOs, 2 AOs)
- 10 slam semis (3 RGs, 3 USOs, 2 AOs, 2 WIs)
- 7 Masters Titles (plus 2 RUs)
- 15 Overall Titles (plus 5 RUs)
- 171-23 Overall record (88%)
- 2 Year-End Number Ones
- 68 Weeks at Number One
- 31 wins vs top 10 players
- 68-7 record at slams (91%)
- 2 RR finishes at WTF
- 4-8 record vs Fedovic (1-4 at slams)

05-07dal achieved:
- 3 slams (3 RGs)
- 5 slam finals (3 RGs & 2 WIs)
- 9 Masters Titles (plus 3 RUs)
- 22 Overall Titles (plus 5 RUs)
- 208-37 Overall record (85%)
- 3 straight Year-End #2 finishes
- 0 weeks at number one (126 straight weeks at number two)
- 26 wins vs top 10 players
- 50-8 record at slams (86%)
- 2 SF finishes at WTF
- 14-8 record vs Fedovic (6-2 at slams)

BOLD = advantage
 
The Blond Blur said:
Greater I.e. more accomplished: Oldal

Better: Youngdal
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Young Nadal was better.
But it's clay where the margin is big. Not in grass or HC. In HC slams Oldal was better.

Grass is close.

2005=2017
2006<2018
2007>>2019

Clay not so much
2005>=2017
2006>2018
2007>>2019

On HC , 2017-19 weren't really that spectacular in terms of play, but the consistent results speak for themselves.

2005-07 Nadal by a slight margin.
 
Clay- 2006, 2017, 2005, 2007, 2018, 2019
Hard-2019,2017, 2007 2018, 2005, 2006( Hard to place 2005 bc Nadal won 2 HC masters and got to the final of another one. The only time he performed better than this was in 2013, his HC peak. His slam results were poor, so I placed it behind 2007)
Grass- 2007..... 2018, 2006, 2019, 2017, 2005

So Nadal was much better on clay in 2005-2007, Better on HC in 2017-2019, and was about the same on grass. I'm still going for 2017-2019 Nadal because of overall consistency and better slam performance.
 
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ForehandCross said:
Fernando had 41 winners to 28 UE against the best defender of the tour.

Against Haas in the next match he had 44 winners to 4 UE.

Let me repeat that 44 winners to 4 UE. Even if you degrade Haas to just today's top 30 equivalent player , that's just insane.

Gonzolez was a beast that tournament.
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Don't you realize? He/she does not watch tennis matches. Hence goes around posting Nadal was peak in 2015.
 
In 2005 alone Nadal won 11 titles, more than in 2018-2019 combined.

On clay young Nadal was much better, it is not even close. There is no way 2005-2007 Nadal loses on clay to the likes of Fognini and Tsitsipas.

On grass he was better in 2007 than in 2017-2019 as well.

On hardcourt he was better in 2017-2019, though it is for sure not his prime on this surface.
 
I want to see Nadal fan, a real Nadal fan, not these fake Fedal fanboys, who will say, okay give me the Nadal who was losing to Blake, Youzhny, Gonzalez, Hewitt, basically everyone with the pulse outside clay, over the complete all surface Nadal who was either winning titles or losing tight matches against Federer or Djokovic.
 
Nadal_Django said:
I want to see Nadal fan, a real Nadal fan, not these fake Fedal fanboys, who will say, okay give me the Nadal who was losing to Blake, Youzhny, Gonzalez, Hewitt, basically everyone with the pulse outside clay, over the complete all surface Nadal who was either winning titles or losing tight matches against Federer or Djokovic.
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Nadal hasn’t taken a set of Djokovic on HC since USO 13. Fed is 6-0 off clay since after AO 14? Did you know this Django?
 
Nadal_Django said:
I want to see Nadal fan, a real Nadal fan, not these fake Fedal fanboys, who will say, okay give me the Nadal who was losing to Blake, Youzhny, Gonzalez, Hewitt, basically everyone with the pulse outside clay, over the complete all surface Nadal who was either winning titles or losing tight matches against Federer or Djokovic.
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Nadal in 2019 was almost bageled by Fognini in his favorite tournament. And you claim that he was better than in 2006 on clay. :-D :-D :-D :-D
 
In 2005-2007 nadal was better on clay, 2017-2019 nadal was better on HC and grass was about the same. Overall, 2017-2019 was a more successful so I give the edge to that period.
 
Nadal beat Federer 2006 4 times, 3 of them on clay. Nadal hasn't faced a single clay court opponent that good in 2017-2019. Still, Nadal was on an 81 match win streak on clay in that period. 2005-2007 Nadal>>2017-2019 on clay. Aside from 2005, Nadal was never really a force on hardcourts in 2005-2007. Grass is very even. 2007 has the higher peak though.
 
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Jonesy said:
17-19 more acomplished for sure.
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For sure. 5 vs 3 slams trumps almost anything else young Nadal has. 2017-2019 also was more consistent across all surfaces and performed way better in all the slams, which is why I have 2017-2019 Nadal the nod in the poll.

But Rafa on clay in 2005-2007 was far better than Nadal on clay in 2017-2019. His lack of consistency is what killed him in the HC slams.
 
Young Nadal couldn't make the SF of a hardcourt Slam over a period of 3 years. He was better in Masters but not in Slams. Basically, it's oldal by default because of that.
 
17-19 Rafa has clearly accomplished wayyyy more, is more consistent at the majors, and far more versatile of a player. 05-07 Rafa was better at BO3, winning long matches, and was explosive asf.

17-19 Rafa was better on fast surfaces. 05-07 Rafa was untouchable on clay.

17-19 Rafa has the edge over the rest of the field but 05-07 Rafa matches up better with Fedovic
 
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clout said:
17-19 Rafa has clearly accomplished wayyyy more and was more consistent at the majors. 05-07 Rafa was better at BO3 and was better on clay.

17-19 Rafa has the edge over the rest of the field but 05-07 Rafa matches up better with Fedovic
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Of course young Nadal is better on clay, except 2017 who was a monster and I think edges all those years at RG from 2005-2007, but since he had more years at a top level, clay goes to younger Nadal. What do you think about grass?
 
Bull of 2018 would crush Youngbull on grass.

On hard, Oldbull easily and on clay I'd still favor 17-19Bull, he's a more complete claycourter nowadays.
 
Young'dal on clay and grass, hard goes the way of Old'dal though it's hard to know how much better he actually is on HC as Young'dal never got a USO 2017 or AO 2019 path to a final.
 
StrongRule said:
Yeah, Nadal who is losing to the likes of Fognini and Tsitsipas is better than the beast who had a streak of 81 consecutive wins on clay in 2005-2007. Makes perfect sense. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
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This is not about consistency. It's about both versions' peak. 2017-19Bull played smarter and more complete tennis even on clay.
 
NoleFam said:
Of course young Nadal is better on clay, except 2017 who was a monster and I think edges all those years at RG from 2005-2007, but since he had more years at a top level, clay goes to younger Nadal. What do you think about grass?
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I might give current Rafa the edge in grass.

2018 = 2007: two matches that could've went either way. Simple case of an ATG player who is involved in so many big matches that they're bound to lose some tough ones

2019 > 2006: Lost to Fed in 4 sets both times but '19 felt a bit tighter. Eye test tells me Rafa was bit better of a grass court player last year than in 06 when he was probably just happy to reach the finals

2017 > 2005: Ironically, he lost to Muller each time but 2017 trumps 2005 as he lost what like 15-13 in the 5th or something along those lines. Rafa's level at Wimbledon that year was actually not too shabby, Muller just decided to turn into a bot.
 
clout said:
I might give current Rafa the edge in grass.

2018 = 2007: two matches that could've went either way. Simple case of an ATG player who is involved in so many big matches that they're bound to lose some tough ones

2019 > 2006: Lost to Fed in 4 sets both times but '19 felt a bit tighter. Eye test tells me Rafa was bit better of a grass court player last year than in 06 when he was probably just happy to reach the finals

2017 > 2005: Ironically, he lost to Muller each time but 2017 trumps 2005 as he lost what like 15-13 in the 5th or something along those lines. Rafa's level at Wimbledon that year was actually not too shabby, Muller just decided to turn into a bot.
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I'd pick 2007 slightly over 2018 (due to nearly beating 2007 Federer who himself was quite better than 2018 Djokovic) and 2006 well over 2019. His 2019 SF against Fed simply wasn't a good match from him. He took one set that Fed practically wrapped up in a gift box but didn't do much in the third and fourth sets. 2006 Nadal had a great middle two sets of the final which really seals the deal for me.
 
Third Serve said:
I'd pick 2007 slightly over 2018 (due to nearly beating 2007 Federer who himself was quite better than 2018 Djokovic) and 2006 well over 2019. His 2019 SF against Fed simply wasn't a good match from him. He took one set that Fed practically wrapped up in a gift box but didn't do much in the third and fourth sets. 2006 Nadal had a great middle two sets of the final which really seals the deal for me.
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I really don't think this is how it works. LOL
 
Today's Nadal is not as fast nor has the endurance of 05-07 Nadal.
But he's got far more experience, more aggressive at net, can end points faster, bigger and better serve, and is smart/intelligent all around the court.
Young Nadal was still developing and still lacking in many areas.
 
Third Serve said:
How does it work?
Click to expand...
You compare a player's youth to his current form based on his stylistic improvements, tactics, nuances, strengths, weaknesses, and overall game and how he adapted and stayed on top against the rising competition. You don't compare them based on how many sets he won/lost against a specific player on a specific surface on a specific day. LOL
 
I wish Wimby allowed a bit of color again.

Championships+Wimbledon+2007+Day+Two+S1T0rEqH2O0x.jpg
 
Mike Sams said:
You compare a player's youth to his current form based on his stylistic improvements, tactics, nuances, strengths, weaknesses, and overall game and how he adapted and stayed on top against the rising competition. You don't compare them based on how many sets he won/lost against a specific player on a specific surface on a specific day. LOL
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Uhh, that’s what this is literally about. It’s about his form on grass and how they compare.
 
Third Serve said:
Uhh, that’s what this is literally about. It’s about his form on grass and how they compare.
Click to expand...

Read what you posted again. :-D

>>I'd pick 2007 slightly over 2018 (due to nearly beating 2007 Federer who himself was quite better than 2018 Djokovic) and 2006 well over 2019. His 2019 SF against Fed simply wasn't a good match from him. He took one set that Fed practically wrapped up in a gift box but didn't do much in the third and fourth sets. 2006 Nadal had a great middle two sets of the final which really seals the deal for me.<<

You made your conclusion based on a couple of Federer meetings. LOL
 
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