Yugram
Legend
Rofl
Who was greater: 2005-07 Nadal (age 19-21) vs 2017-19 Nadal (age 31-33)?
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ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
Err what?
Nadal on clay in 2005:
50-2(96%, 100% at above 250 level) (This is better than 2017-18 combined)
Titles:
250s:2
500s:2
Masters: 2(DNP Hamburg)
Slams: 1
While 2017
24-1
250s:0
500s :1
Masters:2(Loss to Thiem in Rome)
Slams:1
The kind of clay machine Nadal was in 2005 should not be underestimated.
2017 had a way higher level at RG.
2005 however overall had a better clay season.
2005's RG run too shouldn't be overlooked. He beat world no. 1 and then a doping cheater who was playing a extremely physical game.
So I see no reason for 2005>=2017.
Maybe due to his RG run it should be 2005=<2017.
RS
Bionic Poster
This is just bizarre lol.
Yugram
Legend
Your original post is a bit misleading. You put 2018 Grassdal over 2006, which means you rate level of play, not the raw achievements. And as you mentioned, 2017 Claydal had a waaay higher level at RG. That’s why 2005>=2017 surprised me.
RS
Bionic Poster
Nadal has a strong draw in RG 05 though. Nobody anywhere near as good as Fed or even Puerta in RG 17.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Fedr and Dopuerta >> Dummynic and Kneerinka though.
Yugram
Legend
Pretty much
Bender
G.O.A.T.
/thread
clout
Hall of Fame
Rafa really didn’t have the game to win on grass back then on top of the fact that he’s the same age as Felix Auger Aliassime is right now when he made that finals.
Now playing peak Fed was definitely a big reason why he didn’t stand much of a chance but his overall game just wasn’t built to win on grass yet at the time no matter who he went up against. Djokovic for example would’ve dusted 06 Rafa in straight sets, it’d be just as lopsided as the 19 AO
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
2005-2008 Nadal reminds me of Russel Westbrook. Explosive, athletic, and doesn't get tired.
AGREE!
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Hypothetical Djokovic wins every match, eh.
clout
Hall of Fame
Pretty much lol they're both an ultra-athletic version of the energizer bunny. Nadal has a much better IQ and mental game though that's why he's more successful at his sport than Westbrook is at his. Hope Russ can get a ring before he retires though he's one heck of a player
RS
Bionic Poster
I bet if you made a poll he would lose to Fed at least 2/4 slams if not 3/4 slams peak for peak.....
clout
Hall of Fame
Throw any version of post-2011 Novak at Wimbledon (besides 2017) and he routines 2006 Nadal on centre court.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
This implies that Novak at his peak is a better grasscourter than Federer.
NatF
Bionic Poster
No lol.
RS
Bionic Poster
I do not think win a poll with Djokovic at AO and RG would be close in a poll. And if your saying Federer was better at all 4 then reality jumps in the way.
RS
Bionic Poster
Saying Fed was better than Djokovic at the AO is not based on reality for me. Apart from maybe the 2017-2019 courts Djokovic should be the favourite.
RS
Bionic Poster
Not shocking you pick Fed but imo at AO that is not reality for me.Would back 2007 Fed on all but the slowest courts
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
So Fed on Rebound Ace (+ 2017-now courts) and Djoker on Plexi pretty much?Would back 2007 Fed on all but the slowest courts
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Imo there’s not a huge difference between the pre-2008 and post-2008 AO court speeds. Both were medium to slow.
I do know that 2012 was super slow and 2017-2020 was fairly quick.
I do know that 2012 was super slow and 2017-2020 was fairly quick.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer couldn't but Djokovic does, on grass. Shudder to think what mythical peak 2013ray would do then.
NatF
Bionic Poster
RA was slow, but also sticky. Don't think Djokovic would be able to slide as easily which takes away a big weapon of his. The only super slow AO was 2012 imo.
Not expecting it to be for you. Fed had some pretty dominant runs there himself so don't see why it's far fetched that for one tournament he could edge Djokovic but whatever. Across a career I'd give Djokovic a clear advantage as he's maintained his best way better.
RS
Bionic Poster
Well okay enough if you think Fed edges it. I still think it is a bit not reality him being the favourite even peak for peak at AO but he is in with somesort of shot vs anybody anywhere save for Nadal at RG peak for peak.
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RS
Bionic Poster
Alright cool.
D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
well mythical 13ray would 've blown even! 06fed(no problem) out of the water then ..it's so easy-)
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I think he means Djokovic matches up better with him. Djokovic in 2011 didn't have a whole lot of trouble with 2011 Nadal who I think was a better player than 2006 Nadal.
It's gotta be Oldal, if only because he's far and away superior at the hard court majors. Youngdal was a machine--young and fit and could play a million tourneys. He's definitely the more accomplished player outside the majors, and his level and achievements on both clay and grass are similar if not better than Oldal, but he was just too weak at the hard court majors. Oldal is just a cut above at competing for the biggest titles (i.e. slams) on every surface. It's close, and the ranking stuff doesn't make as big a difference as one might think (Oldal wouldn't be racking up the years at number one if he had 2005 Fed hoovering up every event he didn't win), but Oldal's slam superiority gives him the edge.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Except mentally lol. Deerintheheadlightsdal like Hewitt vs Fred in late 04 except Nadal is a better player and keeps it closer accordingly. 2006dal wouldn't get to Djokovic in IW/Miami in the first place so no baggage from h2h losses -> wins clay -> no baggage at WB. Still loses of course but not so badly as the arrogant worshipful appear to think.
RS
Bionic Poster
Some but not the general opinion. I think at the very least 2 if not 3 for a lock.
clout
Hall of Fame
No I just think Federer should've brushed Rafa aside in 2006 since there was such an obvious talent gap on that surface back then. 2011 or 2015 Djokovic probably beats 06 Nadal at Wimbledon like 6-2, 6-3, 6-2 or something like that. Rafa in the 06 Wimby finals was tennis' equivalent of LeBron's Cavs in the 07 NBA Finals against the Spurs
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Extreme fail. 6-2 6-3 6-2 doesn't happen on grass against a half-decent opponent, much less young fightdal. inb4 2015 Wimbledon Anderson, Cilic, Gasquet all favourites to beat 2006dal lolol.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Nadal’s been greater in the last 3 years.
But he was a superior player from 2005-07.
But he was a superior player from 2005-07.
2005 vs 2017:
AO: 2017.
RG: 2017.
WIM: 2017. (Curiosly, 2 loss against Muller)
USO: 2017.
2006 vs 2018:
AO: 2018.
RG: Debatable. (Lost 2 set less in 2018, and he was overall more dominant, but he hadn't an opponent like 2006 Federer)
WIM: 2018. (He lost a round earlier, but with a very close game against Nole, Fed beat him quite easily in 2006. And he need 5 set to beat Delpo, not Robert Kendrick)
USO: 2018.
AO 2007 vs 2019: 2019.
RG 2007 vs 2019: 2007. (He beat Federer in 2006 with the same effort he beat Thiem in 2019)
WIM 2007 vs 2019: 2007.
USO 2007 vs 2019: 2019.
Overall: 9-2 for 2017-2019 Nadal in slams, with one of them debatable.
2005-07 Nadal was slightly better in Master 1000 and WTF(And won more micky mouse tournaments), but this is more about "focus only on GS" and avoid injuries for an older player.
Overall, not even close. Only 2007 Nadal can be at his 2017-2019 level, 2005-2006 Nadal was nothing special outside of clay.
AO: 2017.
RG: 2017.
WIM: 2017. (Curiosly, 2 loss against Muller)
USO: 2017.
2006 vs 2018:
AO: 2018.
RG: Debatable. (Lost 2 set less in 2018, and he was overall more dominant, but he hadn't an opponent like 2006 Federer)
WIM: 2018. (He lost a round earlier, but with a very close game against Nole, Fed beat him quite easily in 2006. And he need 5 set to beat Delpo, not Robert Kendrick)
USO: 2018.
AO 2007 vs 2019: 2019.
RG 2007 vs 2019: 2007. (He beat Federer in 2006 with the same effort he beat Thiem in 2019)
WIM 2007 vs 2019: 2007.
USO 2007 vs 2019: 2019.
Overall: 9-2 for 2017-2019 Nadal in slams, with one of them debatable.
2005-07 Nadal was slightly better in Master 1000 and WTF(And won more micky mouse tournaments), but this is more about "focus only on GS" and avoid injuries for an older player.
Overall, not even close. Only 2007 Nadal can be at his 2017-2019 level, 2005-2006 Nadal was nothing special outside of clay.
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