DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Who played better, Hewitt at the 2005 Australian Open or Berrettini at the 2022 Australian Open?
Who was the better Tennis player at age 22 - Nadal or Alcaraz?
- Thread starter Hyde
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DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal was robbed in that match, just as he was in the 2005 Miami final a few months later against Federer.
The Hawk-Eye had not yet been implanted on the tour.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Who played better, peak Gonzales in 2007 or prime Zverev in 2024?
Who played better, peak Tsonga in 2008 or Djokovic, who was over 37 years old and also injured, in 2025?
pierceforehands
Professional
Yes and it was just recently some were writing Alcaraz off on hard courts, due to a large lack of any recent results, and dismissing him, atleast for now, as a natural court specialist. So kind of funny to see claims suddenly that he is "miles better" than young Nadal on hard courts. All around really sums up the Johnny Come Lately mindset of a lot of people on this site. Remember too how after the Wimbledon final Alcaraz was forever done and dusted, and Sinner's permanent pawn suddenly, and now some of the same people are saying that about Sinner after the US Open final.
While Nadal yes lacked a truly big hard court slam result at this stage, but still beat peak Federer twice on hard court/faster courts at Miami 2004 and Dubai 2006 (sick 1 of those times mind you), had him down 2 sets to one in the 2005 Miami final too, won Indian Wells 2007, crushing both Roddick and Djokovic, won Masters in both Canada and a very fast indoor court in Madrid (the only indoor title he would ever win) in 2005. And almost every hard slam he played on hard courts was going out to a red hot opponent, usually in a fairly late round, while Alcaraz has had some horrendous exits in hard court slams.
So yes I agree even on overall level Alcaraz is ahead on hard courts, but definitely not tons ahead as some are saying here.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I was actually really impressed by Gonzalez's run honestly. I remember everybody was talking about his forehand that tournament, even the WTA players. Tsonga was great but really peaked in that Nadal match. Djokovic played incredible tennis in the last 3 sets against Alcaraz even if he was 37 and injured.
So we can say Nadal played the tougher opponents overall at 18, 20 and 21 but he got.crushed in the last two anyway and didn't make a match of them. Neither of them had a top 10 win at the AO up to this point of their careers so it's splitting hairs, and they are in the same boat at the AO. The difference is Alcaraz is clearly superior at the USO.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Rafael Nadal was, in my opinion.
Stats wise, at the age of 22 years and 5 months (which Alcaraz currently is), this was their resumes:
Rafael Nadal
5 majors won
12 masters won
31 tournaments won
335-69 win-loss record (82.92% win percentage)
Carlos Alcaraz
6 majors won
8 masters won
24 tournaments won
276-63 win-loss record (81.42% win percentage)
Stats wise, at the age of 22 years and 5 months (which Alcaraz currently is), this was their resumes:
Rafael Nadal
5 majors won
12 masters won
31 tournaments won
335-69 win-loss record (82.92% win percentage)
Carlos Alcaraz
6 majors won
8 masters won
24 tournaments won
276-63 win-loss record (81.42% win percentage)
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
I don't think 22 year old Carlos could have done to a prime Fed what Nadal was able to do. I'd have to say Rafa overall.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Comparing their careers up to this point, I would give it to Nadal overall but I'd give it to Alcaraz at the Slam level. He has 10 more wins at the Slam level with the same amount of losses. 90-14 vs 80-14. He's also played more top 10 players overall in Slams partly because he's made it deeper more often. 16-8 (Alcaraz) vs 9-6 (Nadal).
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
The point is if people are going to bring up RAFA’s losses on HC like they’re some massive black mark then they should be willing to do the same for other players.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Nadal had peak Federer in the way, and had lost 2 Wimbledon finals to Federer, beating Federer in their 3rd Wimbledon final.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Alcaraz has peak Sinner now though as his main hurdle. Tbh, he should have lost both RG and Wimbledon to Sinner but he dug deep at RG and gutted it out after Sinner left the door cracked, and didn't finish him. Still, Alcaraz has the overall better record at Slams up to this point of their careers and he's been better against the field.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Alcaraz was losing to Zandschulp a year ago at the US Open (Nadal was losing to Blake and Youzhny in 2005-2006), and Alcaraz hasn't gotten past the Australian Open quarter final yet.
AgassiSuperSlam11
Hall of Fame
All that is going to matter is who accomplished more when they are retired. The other option is to keep comparing them at 25, 30, and 35 (if Carlitos plays that long).
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Alcaraz had a bad loss in 2024 but that doesn't deter from his 2022, 2023 and 2025 USO levels. Have to give the USO to Alcaraz clearly. He hasn't made an AO QF, but he didn't have a clear path to the SF like Nadal had in 2008.
Incognito
Legend
Seriously? I like Rafa too, but he will not bagel Carlos in FO final lol, even if it’s 2008. I’d say 75 64 63. I can agree with that scoreline at Wimbledon.Nadal vs. Alcaraz at RG; 64, 62, 60.
Nadal vs Alcaraz at Wimbledon 75, 46, 63, 62 at Wimbledon.
Carlos was 21 at AO this year. Let’s see what he’ll do next year at AO.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
I think he would bagel Carlos. Federer 2008 is a much superior player to Alcaraz 2025
Incognito
Legend
Not in that FO final 2008 lol. Federer played well below his best. He was slow, error prone, overall lethargic
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Alcaraz would be bagelled. After all, Sinner could’ve beaten him in straight sets. And he’s not even close to the caliber of player Nadal is on clay.
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
This is Rafa v Carlos. Matchups suit different players more than others. I agree Federer beats Alcaraz as Carlos wouldnt have the lefty FH to pulverise Roger's BH, but Rafa v Carlos Rafa doesnt have the get out of jail card he had v Federer.
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
Believe me he would. Novak was dead on his feet, by his own admission btw.
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
Alcaraz has done nothing in Australia thus far, largely for same reasons as Rafa didnt for a number of years, they both like the festive season and both (like all Spanish players) see the AO as a distant 4th prestige wise among the slams.
Incognito
Legend
As good as Rafa was he will not bagel Alcaraz. I will never change my opinion on that.
Well Rafa will not squander 3 match points. I can agree on that.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
We'll see if in the next edition of the Australian Open, Alcaraz has as rivals someone of the level of peak Verdasco and prime Federer from the 2009 Australian Open, whom Nadal defeated consecutively and when the semifinals were played on different days, which made his final triumph even more epic.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
It will be interesting to see Alcaraz peak
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
Rafa was on a mission after his USO 2008 defeat to Murray (Nadal i think felt he was going to win that USO but fatigue got him at a time when he felt indestructible) to win the AO and bag his first HC title. You could see he was leaner at that AO then he usually was in his face so he clearly had been training harder for the AO than he usually did.We'll see if in the next edition of the Australian Open, Alcaraz has as rivals someone of the level of peak Verdasco and prime Federer from the 2009 Australian Open, whom Nadal defeated consecutively and when the semifinals were played on different days, which made his final triumph even more epic.
Alcaraz i think will be in peak form come January as will Sinner as its huge in their rivalry. Its Sinner event and if Carlos gets him there both know the significance. Its why i think for the rest of season neither will do much as they will be at half pace.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
This is so grasping at straws, like 2005AO/2022AO they both lost to the first top 10 player they faced, who gives a crap who did slightly better in the mediocre results that they had. Carlos is probably going ot have more achievements on HC by 25 than Nadal and that's all that matters.
Nadal literally got pummeled to the ground by both Gonzalez and Tsonga, won like 9-10 games each in both matches, how is this better than losing to Zverev or Djokovic?
And also wtf at Zverev sucking against top 10 in the Slams, this isn't 2019 anymore - he beat Alcaraz twice in the Slams, beat Sinner at the US Open, pushed Djokovic several times to 4-5 sets, even kinda beating him once (even tho it was a retirement), not to mention how he could even push Nadal hard at the FO. As much as I dislike him he's pushed the very best way too many times to the limit to say that he sucks against them. Again, this ain't no 2019.
He wasn't playing on one leg, that match just took a lot out of him. What the....we're watching the same matches? Djokovic played as well as he could for his 2024-2025 standards in that AO match against Alcaraz.
Still, the difference between Alcaraz/Nadal in their early AOs is that Nadal maxed out (there's no way he beats Hewitt/Gonzalez/Tsonga with the tools that he had at the time) while Alcaraz has clearly undeperformed (that Zverev match in 2024 in particular was horrible for his standards). Time will tell these early AO losses were an anomaly for Alcaraz or the surface doesn't suit him, becuse it's clear as day for anyone with an IQ higher than 10 that 2022-2025 Alcaraz is miles ahead on HC compared to 2005-2008 Nadal.
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Mustard
Bionic Poster
That's an open era record by Courier, who was age 22 years and 11 months when he reached the 1993 Wimbledon final. Alcaraz has one more chance to beat it, at the 2026 Australian Open. That ship has already sailed for Sinner, as he was older than Courier when he reached the 2025 Wimbledon final.
Before the open era, I believe both Hoad and Rosewall were younger than Courier.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
You're kidding, right?
2 US Open titles alone puts him over Nadal who didn't even reach a HC Slam final until he was 23. And no it wasn't Federer's or Djokovic's fault LOL Nadal didn't even play Fed in a HC Slam until 2009 AO and the same for Djokovic until 2010 USO. Nadal was losing to guys like Gonzalez, Tsonga, Youzhny, Blake, Ferrer, young Murray in HC Slams, he didn't even record a top 10 win in a HC Slam until he beat Simon at the AO in 2009, while Alcaraz already bagged a top 10 in a HC Slam in 2021 and has additionally beat Ruud in 2022 and Sinner/Djokovic in 2025.
Totally unacceptable unlike Nadal losing to Youzhny Blake and not even prime Ferrer at the US Open in 2005-2007 which is totally acceptable.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Grasping at straws? It’s literally a fact that you spammed Berrettini memes nonstop here for years my dude. And lol what an incredibly disingenuous statement. Hewitt was a significantly better player than Berrettini. He went on to make the F and even took a set from peak Safin who just got finished taking out peak Fed.
Gonzo and Tsonga both played significantly better than Zedrot and Joker. You’re using the Bot Brigade argument of name > form/level of play.
It’s relevant because historically Zedrot has sucked against top 10 opponents in schlems. He’s 5-18 (with Carl being 2 of them). The others include Sinner before he broke out in the fall of 2023, Ruud (who’s a dollar store Ferrer) and an injured Joker who retired after 1 set. He hasn’t done anything to beat the MUG vs top 10 in GS allegations.
He’s was playing with a hamstring strain that caused him to retire from the tournament. The fact that Carl couldn’t beat an injured opponent is a bad look no matter how you slice it. Gonzo and especially Tsonga would have had a field day with the kind of forms they were in.
That’s such a disingenuous cop out answer. And even if Carl did play up to his potential in the AO the fact of the matter is he didn’t. And that has to be held against him. One of his biggest weaknesses is that his level is incredibly up and down within matches. The only thing that’s clear here is your vitriolic attitude towards RAFA.
big ted
Legend
Rafael Nadal | Player Activity | ATP Tour | Tennis
Official tennis match records of Rafael Nadal including results, opponents, match stats. Filter by year and tournament.
www.atptour.com
Carlos Alcaraz | Player Activity | ATP Tour | Tennis
Official tennis match records of Carlos Alcaraz including results, opponents, match stats. Filter by year and tournament.
www.atptour.com
Yeh, but Carlos earns his keep by defeating Jannik 4 times while winning slams. Jannik returns the favor just once.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Nadal beat Federer 4 times out of 6 in 2006, a year in which Federer was 92-5.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
He's clearly better, Alcaraz is arguably the best HC player, he's only incosistent, Nadal on the other hand just wasn't that good and tried to apply his clay game to HC until 2008/2009 that's why he got often outplayed by hard hitters.
Well yeah but Alcaraz never had the luxury of playing Jarrko Niemininen in an AO QF.
Overall the competition is worse, but it's not like Nadal was being stopped by Fed and Djokovic on HC until 2009, he rarely made it deep enough in tournaments to face them (that's one of the reasons why the Fed-Nadal h2h isn't closer), so it's not like Nadal underachieved on HC in 2005-2008 due to the competition but rather his level. Nadal didn't face Fed in a HC Slam until early 2009 and didn't face Djokovic in a HC Slam until the USO in 2010. Alcaraz is clearly better on HC, he's just inconsistent, but getting better in that regard.
Alcaraz is doing fine against the competition that he has, he's dominating Sinner on HC and has his share of wins against Djokovic/Zverev. Apart from some loses due to inconsistency I don't think Alcaraz has had many bad losses on HC outside of maybe losing to Djokovic at the AO in 2025, but I highly doubt it's going to happen again as Alcaraz is maturing and Djokovic is on the way out.
To sum up - I think Alcaraz could still do really well on HC if you put him in Nadal's place in 2005-2008, obviously with prime Fed around his chances of bagging a HC Slam would be low anyway, but no way in hell a young Nadal would win a HC Slam today, he would find it hard to get through an old Djokovic let alone someone like Sinner.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
It's a moot conversation anyway, I don't think Alcaraz is beating Nadal's opponents and vice versa, who played slightly better or worse or who pushed who in what way is meaningless.
At the end of the day I think Nadal maxed out at the AO in his early years, his results should've warried between 4R-SF depending on the draw and just wasn't a real contender for a HC Slam until arguably 2008, but probably 2009. Alcaraz has been a serious contender pretty much from day 1 and in my eyes has underperformed at the AO. If that's because of the surface or conditions or bad luck we'll see in the future, but I'm having a hard time imagining the trend will last given how Alcaraz in in good form on HC (and arguably the best HC player on tour right now) and still improving, is dominating Sinner (the only other true contender) and Djokovic on his way out and declining.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
I don't think it's the same reason. Alcaraz should've done way more on AO thus far, if it's because of his inconsistency or the surface/conditions at the AO we'll see in the future, but he has underperformed at the AO so far. Nadal on the other hand maxed out at the AO in 2005-2008, should've lost to Hewitt and he did, should've lost to a zoning Gonzo and Tsonga and he did. He just wasn't that good yet. Alcaraz could've easily beaten both Zverev in 2024 and Djokovic in 2025 - that first match in particular Alcaraz was playing so poorly it's not even funny.
But again as I've mentioned in this thread a couple of times, I don't think the trend will continue for long, Alcaraz is way too good to not bag the AO at some point, if not several AOs down the road.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
You're talking as if 2005-2008 Nadal is some kind of monster on HC who just had bad luck with the draws and that's why he "underperformed". No, he lost to players he was supposed to, he wasn't beating Hewitt in 2005, wasn't beating Gonzalez in 2007 and wasn't beating Tsonga in 2008. Alcaraz on the other hand despite losing to top 10 players in all 3 AOs that he played - Berrettini in 2022, Zverev in 2024 and Djokovic in 2025 he still underperformed. You can discount the loss against Berrettini as he was 18-years old and the match was close vs Berrettini (yes despite all the mocking was a genuine top 10 player and in good form at the time) he played a poor match against Zverev in 2024 and I feel should've beaten Djokovic in 2025. That's the whole point - Nadal maxed out in 2005-2008 while Alcaraz had similar results as Nadal, but in my eyes underperformed watching what he's done on HC in other tournaments especially the USO and Indian Wells.
Again, Nadal played as well as he could at the AO and got beaten by better players. Alcaraz clearly underperformed so far. So you slamming on Alcaraz for doing poorly is basically you admitting that he's a better HC player than Nadal was at the same stage of their careers as you kinda expect him to take down Zverev and Djokovic at this stage.
And the backpedalling with Zverev is laughable, he's beaten both Alcaraz and Sinner in the Slams (legit wins each time) in the last 2-3 years, pushed Djokovic each time they played in a Slam and has other wins. Who cares Zverev has historically sucked against top 10 player in the Slams when he clearly went a level up in 2021-2025. So beating Wawrinka in the Slams in 2013-2017 wasn't a big deal because he sucked pre 2013 too? The kind of logic is this lmao?
LMAO at a 38-year old "injured" Djokovic outgrinding a young Alcaraz at the AO in a 3h+ match. Were there dragons in this story too? If Djokovic was injured he would've gotten pummeled by Alcaraz if he even stepped on court. If the hamstring was bothering Djokovic it wasn't to the point of him affecting his game, but it definitely affected him for his next match.
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StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol, this whole discussion shows that all (or at least most) of those who voted for Alcaraz are just Nadal haters, nothing else. They don't have any actual arguments, and I doubt they even believe their own words.
GRASScaraz
Hall of Fame
6>5
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
6 Slams to 5 Slams and not just a gazillion French Opens - mutliple Slams on each surface which Nadal could only dream of at that stage. Alcaraz > Nadal and it's not even close.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
An advantage of one Slam doesn’t really mean that much when one of the Slams Nadal lost was Wimbledon 2007 where he played better than Alcaraz has in any of the Wimbledons he won, never mind the ones he lost.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Multiple Slams on each surface already for Alcaraz, Nadal only had a gazillion French Opens and that Wimbledon which he barely won against monoFed with low confidence after a gazillion matches on clay that help Nadal build confidence.
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