Who was the third best player in the 2000s (2000-2009) behind Fedal?
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ForehandRF
Legend
Not more often than Nalbandian used to
NatF
Bionic Poster
Yes making a slam final is better than actually winning two slams etc...lol. What a fail.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
No, one can't.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
In the short timespan Murray was competitive in the 2000s, he made reached a higher peak of ATP points than Hewitt, Roddick or Safin did in the whole decade..
That speaks loudly on how better he is than them.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Lol at ATP points being more relevant than winning slams etc...Murray was so much better that he still lost his biggest match against Roddick
RS
Bionic Poster
Murray was better than Roddick and Hewitt in peak seasons but 08-09 was not that.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Non-peak Roddick beat near-peak Murray at Wimbledon then. lulzworth.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
125downthemiddle
Banned
On results it's Novak.
The rest is more nebulous subjective stuff, which usually in these parts goes in favor of Fed or his extended family of Hewitt, Roddick, 35 year old Agassi etc.
The rest is more nebulous subjective stuff, which usually in these parts goes in favor of Fed or his extended family of Hewitt, Roddick, 35 year old Agassi etc.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
On results it’s unquestionably one of Hewitt or Agassi. Hewitt has 1 more Slam and 1 more YEC win. He also has a lot more weeks at number 1. Agassi has 2 extra Slams and 2 extra Masters. He too has more weeks at number 1.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Surely not.
Last edited:
RS
Bionic Poster
Novak had brutal competition from 07-09 though. Probably the hardest of the bunch.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Don't know if it was worse than Hewitt/Agassi/Roddick of 04-05 with Fed on grass/HC tbh. Djokovic was basically blocked by a worse Federer on HC and then Nadal on clay. Guess you could say Nadal on clay puts it over but Djokovic wasn't really a factor on grass and Arod/Hewitt had Fed there.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
Hewitt won nothing after 2002, got lucky playing donk Nalbandian for his Wimbledon title. Got beat by Safin at AO 2005 despite having everything in his favour. Safin even played crap in the first set. Hewitt had his two years in the sun, and was never in Safin's league. He just managed to win a load of titles when the competition was disgusting. in 01-02, Safin was giving zero f's, Fed wasn't Fed, Roddick wasn't in his prime, etc.
Imagine being Roddick, losing to Federer in 3 Wimbledon finals, and lived through Hewitt beating Nalbandian for his Wimbledon title. Haha.
Anyone who thinks Hewitt is better than Safin from a technical perspective needs help mentally. Safin is better than Hewitt at everything on the tennis court aside from the slice, movement, and getting spat on.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
RS
Bionic Poster
Not really.....
RS
Bionic Poster
Hewitt and Roddick is a good point but Federer/Nadal as a combo is hard to argue against. Agassi was not a huge factor outside hc so not sure.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
RS
Bionic Poster
Slower surfaces helped Murray to some extent. But this wasnt about the surfaces it was about how they competed in peak years.
You said everything was in Murray favour over Roddick which was wrong. This ignores the competition he faced too.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
Roddick faced the same competition as Murray did for 6 seasons?????? Raonic in a Wimbledon final????
Roddick also had slower surfaces to contend with his entire career.
??????
Some extent? Lol, Murray wouldn't have even made a slam final in the 90's, before this homogenisation took place.
RS
Bionic Poster
AO was still slower in 90s . And RG was still slow. You still had courts in the 90s were Murray could compete well not everything was faster. And other worse players made slam finals from the 90s to early 00s as well. Murray would have lesser consistency in the 90s sure i agree with that.
You cherrypick Ranoic in a Wim final ignoring that Murray had to compete with much better players as well like a peak Djokovic then a peak Nadal.
You also ignore Roddick poor net approches and average use of the slice which might have not been good in a SUV era as well. He also didnt read the serve well so he gained some benefits to a extent.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
Yes, but Roddick would have been able to play on fast surfaces sometimes during the year. He managed to have a good career on the slower surfaces, what makes you think he wouldn't have a Murray type career if he played on surfaces which were helping him????
I am not cherrypicking anything. In 33% of Murray's slam wins, he played nobodies and a nobody in the final called Raonic. Please can you pick a Raonic calibre opponent that Roddick played.
Roddick has also played the same players Murray has, Roddick just retired earlier.
So which 'much better players' did Murray play that Roddick didn't play? The only player is Nadal at Wimbledon, but that match never happened. Roddick was able to beat Djokovic at AO (Something Murray wasn't able to do), and beat Nadal in his best years (something Murray struggled with).
Murray in the 90's barely makes top 15. He had the wind on his side against Djokovic (who was clearly hampered more) at US Open, and managed to beat Djokovic before Djokovic truly took his grass game to the next level. The only slam he didn't win by luck was when he beat Raonic.
I don't ignore anything about Roddick. I am just saying that Roddick of 03/04 would beat Murray at 3/4 majors, and would kill him at Wimbledon. Roddick in 09 when he was past his best was able to sneak a win over Murray at W. The only reason Murray beat Roddick at W06 was because Roddick downright sucked - he was losing to everyone.
Conditions helped Murray more than Roddick. Deal with it. I am talking about Conditions. You do understand that, right?
RS
Bionic Poster
1. 2003/04 would beat Murray at 3/4 majors and kill him at Wim. Some reality this is. Murray is bad matchup for big servers like Roddick who cant deal with his slice and variety. Roddick played at prime level in Wim 09 anyway. Worse return but better serving/net-play and BH. The 06 had nothing to with what i said and your bias to Roddick ignores Murray was teenager but points out Roddick was in a slump in 06......
2. I did not say Murray faced better players than Roddick nor was i talking about that. I said you cherrypicked Ranoic to show Murray competition when he has been blocked off/stopped non stop by a peak Djokovic and Nadal.
3. You analysis on how Murray does in the 90s is solely opinion based . And you ignored what i said about the 1990s still having a fair few slow courts. You dont know how Roddick does in the 90s also.
4. Comparing Roddick beating 09 Djokovic at AP to Murray facing a prime Djokovic in all his AO finals has no basis. Roddick was competitive vs Rafa so was Murray who beat Rafa in slams as well. And Murray faced Rafa more in slams.....
5. Who the conditions help more is against the op that Murray had better peak seasons than Roddick. Your said everything was in his favour so it made it look lke you were expanding beyond conditions and talking abut competition too. If Roddick would have a Murray like career is speculation and against the point as well and the same is reverse.
6. Of course Murray Wim 16 final oppenent was not the the best ever i never claimed that. I agree about the grass but Djokovic was very strong in 2012/2013 still and Murray beat him a lot .
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Sampras was awful in 2001 except for one tournament LOL. Guess which one.
Sampras beat Rafter, Agassi and Safin just to get to the final.
RS
Bionic Poster
Lets see
AO 2007 vs 2004- Djokovic
FO 2007 vs 2004- Djokovic
Wim 2007 vs 2004- Hewitt slightly
USO 2007 vs 2004 Hewitt by less than slightly
AO 2008 vs AO 2005- Hewitt
FO 2008 - Djokovic (dont know if Hew played
Wim 2008 vs 2005- Hewitt
USO 2008 vs 2005 equal
Djokovic had a very tough USO 09 so good point seems close at slam level.
NatF
Bionic Poster
That seems pretty fair.
Obviously we're looking at short timespans but Hewitt had tough draws in his earlier career as well when he was contender where as Djokovic wasn't a contender before 2007. I think Hewitt gets overlooked a little because his years at #1 were when the tour was weak but he had some very tough draws either side of that and even into the back end of the decade. For example Hewitt met Nadal 3x at the FO himself in that decade, in 2006 he would have had a shot at the final even IMO and he would have at least made a SF at Wimby in 2009 without Roddick.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
That guy you quoted... lol I remember him. Very salty troll and he kept coming back with so many new accounts. Like @Dallas @Tsitsipas25Slams @USO19 and the like.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Ah yes I remember Dallas. Had a posting spree a couple of months before I joined, said Fed's FH is better now than it was in 2005 among other disturbing things.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
Hewitt in his prime nearly lost to a young Roddick, this tells you how Hewitt was not that good.
Hewitt simply got lucky, struggled to beat a pre pubescent Roddick, and got the remains of a dead skeleton in Sampras. Why are people acting like Sampras was some unstoppable force in 2001?
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, I wonder why you would say that, @donkus_the_3rd
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
The only years any version of Hewitt would score victories would be Djokovic in 2009 and 2017.
Hewitt played a load of nobodies at W04 and got taken to the bakery by the only good player he faced. Djokovic at W07 was beating Nadal on one leg for a time in the SF's. No way does Hewitt of W04 beat Djokovic of W07 (if healthy).
RS
Bionic Poster
We were talking about who had it tougher not who wins in a matchup.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
He beat Henman and Nalbandian to get to his Wimbledon title. Hardly a tough draw. Djokovic was playing Federer and Nadal across all 4 majors from 07 onwards.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Talking outside the ones he won...though there was nothing wrong with his USO.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
Ok, and Djokovic still had it tougher seeing as he has continuously met Federer and Nadal from 2007 onwards (played Nadal at FO for first time in 06), even in 08 and 09 it usually took a grand slam champion. Djokovic never lost to a player like Karlovic in his prime the way Hewitt did.
Too much d1ck riding for Hewitt in this thread. Making out like his draws were tough. He played Nalbandian in a Wimbledon final for christ sakes. Only Nadal at the US Open gets friendlier draws.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Who's acting this way?
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
I said it because I read that users posts and thought he was correct. What point are you trying to make?
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Eh, it's nothing.
RS
Bionic Poster
I am not Hewitt fan and certainly don’t pump him up like a lot do . I think with Fed in 04-05 he had it very tough not saying it was better what Djokovic had overall in those years but with a peak Fed he had it hard with all those slam meetings.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
Your post defending Sampras' form to argue Hewitt was a great player.
Look, people, there is a reason why Hewitt basically did nothing after 02. The emergence of better players.
Hewitt of 01/02 could play in any other era and wouldn't just be slamless, he might be a 250-500 winning player at best. He certainly doesn't win any slams in the 90's.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
But Djokovic was also playing peak Federer at a younger age. Hewitt had a season of playing weak, past prime opposition.
Even with Federer out of the way, he couldn't capitalise. Had the crowd behind him, Safin played the longer match, more pressure on Safin, Safin came out weak, Hewitt managed to throw it away. An overrated player who people somehow rate. Similar to Ferrer, except Ferrer seems like a nice guy, Hewitt comes across are a complete try-hard even in charity events and got spat at. Hewitt can get in the bin.
RS
Bionic Poster
Your just ranting at this point really I am not even a Hewitt fan.
Fair enough about Djokovic.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
2007 Djokovic had a very tight match with 2007 Hewitt << 2004 Hewitt.
donkus_the_3rd
Rookie
It was the best Hewitt could do.
Is Hewitt of 04 better than 07 though? Or was it he was able to get further due to playing weaker opposition. He has got to be the worst Wimbledon champion I have ever seen. The guy lost to Karlovic.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer lost to Stakhovsky, must be total mug as well lol.
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