Who was the tougher match up for Djokovic on grass between Federer and Nadal?
- Thread starter Hitman
- Start date
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Djoker never beat a good version of Fed at Wimbledon.
Djoker wouldn't be much of a matchup at all for the Fed of 8-14 years earlier.
Djoker wouldn't be much of a matchup at all for the Fed of 8-14 years earlier.
Last edited:
jl809
Legend
Federer by a zillion miles.
Age for age, I think Djokovic was maybe better than Federer on grass in 3 or 4 years out of 19.. as such, 1-3 is one of the least representative H2Hs of two ATGs on any surface ever. Federer had a higher peak, higher postprime level and (so far) better longevity. 2019 Federer would have shredded 2024 Djokovic for example, likewise 2014 Fed vs 2019 Djokovic. The variety, the big serving, the forehand, all of it was killer for Nole.
Opposite is true for Nadal. He peaked bizarrely young so was a better player when both were in their early 20s. But aside from one time under Moya (31 years old so 2018 for Nadal, 2019 for Djoker), the entire rest of the time, Djoker was a superior player. He had the serve / return advantage and in their late 20s onwards, generally the movement and consistency advantage too. None of that was good for Nadal. The 2-2 H2H is also a distortion.
Age for age, I think Djokovic was maybe better than Federer on grass in 3 or 4 years out of 19.. as such, 1-3 is one of the least representative H2Hs of two ATGs on any surface ever. Federer had a higher peak, higher postprime level and (so far) better longevity. 2019 Federer would have shredded 2024 Djokovic for example, likewise 2014 Fed vs 2019 Djokovic. The variety, the big serving, the forehand, all of it was killer for Nole.
Opposite is true for Nadal. He peaked bizarrely young so was a better player when both were in their early 20s. But aside from one time under Moya (31 years old so 2018 for Nadal, 2019 for Djoker), the entire rest of the time, Djoker was a superior player. He had the serve / return advantage and in their late 20s onwards, generally the movement and consistency advantage too. None of that was good for Nadal. The 2-2 H2H is also a distortion.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Federer. Could easily go 2-2 vs Djokovic on grass. And 2 of djokovic's 3 wins needed fifth set.
Nadal is 2-2 and it's circumstance issue just as usopen. Djokovic was reaching Wimbledon finals from 2011 to 2024 and Nadal 2006 to 2011. The only time they faced and were both great, Djokovic won. But if they both are same age , I would say Nadal can win some and Djokovic won more.
If both Djokovic and fed are same age , I think it would go > 50% fed based on very close rivalry they kept.
Nadal is 2-2 and it's circumstance issue just as usopen. Djokovic was reaching Wimbledon finals from 2011 to 2024 and Nadal 2006 to 2011. The only time they faced and were both great, Djokovic won. But if they both are same age , I would say Nadal can win some and Djokovic won more.
If both Djokovic and fed are same age , I think it would go > 50% fed based on very close rivalry they kept.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Simply fed is king of grass and next HC
Djokovic is king of hard courts and then grass.
Nadal is king of clay. Pretty dangerous on other 2 surfaces but not in same league as fed on hc and Djokovic on grass.
Djokovic is king of hard courts and then grass.
Nadal is king of clay. Pretty dangerous on other 2 surfaces but not in same league as fed on hc and Djokovic on grass.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
This is likely same situation with Djokovic and Alcaraz today. Djokovic is 0-2 at center court of Wimbledon and 2-0 on phillipe chatrier. It's a coincidence.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
His name is Roger Federer.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
There are many coincidences in life. Like thiem winning masters and slams on HC and none at clay.
I say when the sample size is very small, these things are just coincidences and should not be taken too seriously. The Djokovic Nadal 2-2 h2h is simply coincidence. If Djokovic withdrew in 2007 then it would be 2 slam wins vs 1 250 at queens.
I say when the sample size is very small, these things are just coincidences and should not be taken too seriously. The Djokovic Nadal 2-2 h2h is simply coincidence. If Djokovic withdrew in 2007 then it would be 2 slam wins vs 1 250 at queens.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
When nole thanked Federer for allowing him to win in 2014, I think it was genuine.
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Right, and if a single point goes the other way in 2018, it's in Nadal's favor. You can play the if game forever.
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Period, end of story.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
No no. No no. I don't play what if game.
I am saying straight faced. Djokovic retired in a match. Only 3 matches completed.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
You couldn't lie straight in bed
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Would you say - The GOATs of Wimbledon. In your opinion?
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Sampras would be like, hold on now! Lol. The fact that Sampras reached 7 before he even turned 29, has a 90% win percentage, and is 7-0 in finals is insane. He still has an argument imo. Those are the 3 greatest at Wimbledon though, yes, at least in the modern era.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Another hotly contested poll here. Damn, who shall win?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Haha, yes, he'd be the other one.
RS
Bionic Poster
Took a different route.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Would you rather smell of BO or would you rather be fresh?
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
TennisGrandpA
Professional
Fed
ghostofMecir
Legend
In their 4 matches at Wimbledon, Federer has a slightly leading dominance ratio and won more than half the points. It could just as easily be 3-1 Federer with a
ghostofMecir
Legend
In their 4 matches at Wimbledon, Federer has a slightly leading dominance ratio and won more than half the points. It could just as easily be 3-1 Federer with a point here or there.
alexio
Semi-Pro
pete and fred are kinda co-goats of wimby to me, if i need to choose only one then its pete
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea the top 2 at Wimbledon for me still. Djokovic is 3rd, but a strong #3. Pete definitely has an argument as #1. He was close to untouchable in his prime.pete and fred are kinda co-goats of wimby to me, if i need to choose only one then its pete
austintennis2005
Professional
What is the ‘DR’ stat?
In their 4 matches at Wimbledon, Federer has a slightly leading dominance ratio and won more than half the points. It could just as easily be 3-1 Federer with a
Incognito
Legend
Overall on grass though it’s Fed. How many titles does he have on grass compared to their two…
TennisGrandpA
Professional
Disagree on AO , Fed never won two sets against him at AO once Novak won his first slam , also never beat Novak at Hc slam once Novak started beating him (USO)
Razer
G.O.A.T.
At AO both Federer and Nadal are soft targets for Novak, he will crush them back to back, trust me.
Stanimal is the man for the job to trouble Djokovic or maybe I will depend on Safin.
Turning Pro
Hall of Fame
Definitely Fed as he's the grass Goat.
But nearly equally for Nadal, he could and should be 2-1 up at Wimbledon if it wasn't for ROOFGATE 2018 in the worst possible conditions on the ultra wet and fast indoor grass.
Also Djokovic never faced 2006-2010 Grassdal who pushed the grass GOAT in his ultimate prime/peak.
Djokovic in his prime/peak was facing the 9th, 10,11th best versions of Fed on grass and still struggled in 4 in 2015 against Djokers best versions and 2 mp's down against 38/39 yr old Fed.
Fed 03-09 Fed would MAUL Djoker like in the 2012 Wimbledon edition in which Djoker was the Defending champ and coming off his best year ever. It'd be a bloodbath.
But nearly equally for Nadal, he could and should be 2-1 up at Wimbledon if it wasn't for ROOFGATE 2018 in the worst possible conditions on the ultra wet and fast indoor grass.
Also Djokovic never faced 2006-2010 Grassdal who pushed the grass GOAT in his ultimate prime/peak.
Djokovic in his prime/peak was facing the 9th, 10,11th best versions of Fed on grass and still struggled in 4 in 2015 against Djokers best versions and 2 mp's down against 38/39 yr old Fed.
Fed 03-09 Fed would MAUL Djoker like in the 2012 Wimbledon edition in which Djoker was the Defending champ and coming off his best year ever. It'd be a bloodbath.
Last edited:
TennisGrandpA
Professional
Nadal took him to 5 at his absolute peak but Novak has been handling Fed with quite ease since 2008 and never lost 2 sets. Safin was an average mover so big no against prime Novak. Staminal didn’t fear him and matched up well
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Nope that was not absolute peak. Novak was not that good in AO 2012 as he was in Ao 2011, he was having some breathing problems in between I could notice. Despite this he won and Murray tired him out in the semis too, still he won. Nadal is overrated, he is no match for Novak at AO. In USA yes Nadal could be a challenger of equal level but at AO it is a very diff story, it is a 1 sided affair if Novak is fit and at his peak. 2011 Novak would destroy 2012 Nadal in 4 sets.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
On the faster court I give Fed great chances against Novak.
As for their AO H2H, their best levels never collided, that’s all.
RS
Bionic Poster
If you factor in the different expectations of his time + living in a slight hypothetical world were he could more if he doesn't retire you could still say he has a argument over anyone not just Novak.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
RS
Bionic Poster
Why do you say that? We spoke like 2-3 days ago lol.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Nadal would need a very good lawyer to argue for his case outside clay
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer has a losing record to Djoko at Wimbledon.
Rafa has a losing record to Federer at Wimbledon. How embarrassing that must be for Nadal fans. He can't even beat Novak's pigeon there
TennisGrandpA
Professional
Yes Fed definitely, especially on Wimbledon it’s no contest
TennisGrandpA
Professional
He was in his peak years at AO 2012 and Nadal came with a game plan after taking the beating. Well I won’t go with if and would , thing is Nadal was the only one who came close against Novak at AO in later stage in his peak and Novak was the same who took Nadal to 5 at FO, it is what it is rest is opinion.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It's really all about Wimbledon tbh because players like Djokovic and Borg didn't play many grass warmups. However, I think Federer's 8 titles and overall grass record gives him an argument as #1.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
It's not all about Wimbledon though. Federer has great grass track record today. Djokovic Sampras didn't play that many prep tournaments. And it's on them.
Similar threads
