Who will benefit most when the courts are sped back up?

Booger

Hall of Fame
Let's talk real talk: the only reason the courts are still so slow is the Djokodal slam race. Tennis is already circling the drain, so once that's over, they will have to speed up the courts again to avoid the horror of countless goffin vs. medvedev grand slam finals.

Lighter balls, faster courts, probably abbreviated scoring, et. Who wins the most? Rublev? Kyrgios? Thiem?
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
I think the obvious ones are Shapo, Tsitsipas and maybe Sinner. There will be others, but we haven't even heard of them.

Problem is, just speeding up the playing conditions isn't enough to repair the game. Racquets and strings are an even bigger problem.
 

pennc94

Professional
MLB, NFL, NHL, etc since any remaining tennis superstars will disappear and no more will arise.


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Booger

Hall of Fame
I don't think he's saying tennis players would go into different sports, I think he's saying tennis FANS will watch other sports!
The day doctors can test for CTE on living patients, I think the NFL is finnish. Think about all the athletes and fans up for grabs. I'm sure the USTA is being very proactive lol.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
The playing conditions won't get faster again. I don't think they even know how to put that genie back in its bottle. It's just been too long - nigh on 20 years now.
Money does funny things. The second the NFL figured out they could make a bunch more money by catering to passing offenses instead of boring defenses, rules started changing.
 
Money does funny things. The second the NFL figured out they could make a bunch more money by catering to passing offenses instead of boring defenses, rules started changing.
I know you are desperate for it to happen. By the way, it also wouldn't lead to a lowering of age on the tour, but if anything to another increase. But, anyway, it's not going to happen. Perhaps a marginal change, but not much.
 
Money does funny things. The second the NFL figured out they could make a bunch more money by catering to passing offenses instead of boring defenses, rules started changing.
Also you are likely in this post mistakenly assuming that you want is what most people want. It's more likely that tennis will remain more popular with a mostly baseline game of long rallies than with a return to shorter rallies. Serve is dominant in men's tennis as it is. As it happens, I would like to see more net play, too, but I'm comfortable with my desires not being mainstream ones.
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
I don't think all hard courts should be sped up, but it would be nice if some were.
Exactly. Although I think there's nothing more boring than watching two baseliners play each other, the contrast of styles can be good. For that to occur, there needs to be conditions where attacking tennis is rewarded.

But as above, that is as much (if not more) a function of equipment rules as it is court speed.
 

pennc94

Professional
I don't think he's saying tennis players would go into different sports, I think he's saying tennis FANS will watch other sports!
Correct.
Homogenized surfaces (along with Bo5 going to Bo3 at Masters, going from 16 seeds to 32 at majors, etc.) are what has given rise to the tennis superstar and allowed tennis to be viable as a business. If you reintroduce varied court speeds, you cannot ensure the same players make it through draws all the time.


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Booger

Hall of Fame
Also you are likely in this post mistakenly assuming that you want is what most people want. It's more likely that tennis will remain more popular with a mostly baseline game of long rallies than with a return to shorter rallies. Serve is dominant in men's tennis as it is. As it happens, I would like to see more net play, too, but I'm comfortable with my desires not being mainstream ones.
As a general rule, casual fans love offense a LOT more than defense. NBA, NHL, NFL, and MLB have ALL changed the rules to allow for more offense. There's a lot of precedent. The NHL nearly died when it was ruled by mid-tier defensive players. They made it easier to score goals and suddenly a lot of fans returned. Tennis is in the same place.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
Correct.
Homogenized surfaces (along with Bo5 going to Bo3 at Masters, going from 16 seeds to 32 at majors, etc.) are what has given rise to the tennis superstar and allowed tennis to be viable as a business. If you reintroduce varied court speeds, you cannot ensure the same players make it through draws all the time.
But then you sacrifice the rest of the tournament for the sake of maybe 2-3 matches. Grand slams are trash now until the semis.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Throwing or hitting a 95mph fastball is the most difficult feat in sports, but yeah, not a good look.
Sure but put any of these MLB and NFL guys on the tennis court and let's see what they can do. Athletes specialize in their own individual sports. So it doesn't really make sense to demean tennis players as not being athletic enough to compete in major sports.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
Sure but put any of these MLB and NFL guys on the tennis court and let's see what they can do. Athletes specialize in their own individual sports. So it doesn't really make sense to demean tennis players as not being athletic enough to compete in major sports.
Tennis players are skilled for sure, but not at all athletic in terms of size, speed, or strength. 98% of the best raw athletes choose football or basketball.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Tennis players are skilled for sure, but not at all athletic in terms of size, speed, or strength. 98% of the best raw athletes choose football or basketball.
Agreed but that's mostly because once they sign their first rookie contract, they're guaranteed high 6 figure to 7 figure contracts.
In tennis, you get peanuts. There's no money in it unless you make it in the top 30 or something. They don't sign any guaranteed contracts. They just live off their winnings which for some is less than $20K per year. An NBA player gets a minimum contract salary of around $870K or around that.
 
"E-sports" are going to be bigger than real sports within this decade, serious. How many kids play video games vs. those with wealthy parents who can afford tennis?
I used to play video games all the time over summer, then I started thinking seriously about tennis and magically I don’t play for like 5 hours anymore. I loved destiny 2 and pretty much everything Nintendo, but now I can’t even play for 10 minutes. the last time I played seriously for like over an hour was 2 months ago when I first played the MW2 campaign. I hope you know video games cause if not this makes no sense.

edit: I played that amount of time for years, these past 4-6 months have been transformative.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
lol as if Tsitsipas would improve on fast courts. Guy can't even return on a slow court and he sucks on grass, how are his results going to improve when the serve is even faster?

Similar story with Shapovalov; he can't keep the ball in even with all the time in the world to set up with his mediocre footwork. If anything the gap between the Big 3 and everyone else is going to be larger.
 

BGod

Legend
Shapovalov becomes all-timer.

Tennis will end when big 3 retire. Only virtual tennis will remain for posterity.

This is a joke that won't age well because of E-Sports. Which is hard for me to respect but it's real and gaining tremendous steam. Once we hit through ultra-photorealism sometime by the end of this decade, this joke won't be very funny.
 
I think the obvious ones are Shapo, Tsitsipas and maybe Sinner. There will be others, but we haven't even heard of them.

Problem is, just speeding up the playing conditions isn't enough to repair the game. Racquets and strings are an even bigger problem.
Obviously not.
Their returns are horrendous.
And faster courts will make them vulnerable to even more journeymen then they today are
 
As a general rule, casual fans love offense a LOT more than defense. NBA, NHL, NFL, and MLB have ALL changed the rules to allow for more offense. There's a lot of precedent. The NHL nearly died when it was ruled by mid-tier defensive players. They made it easier to score goals and suddenly a lot of fans returned. Tennis is in the same place.
The thing with that claim is that it's most assertion. The thing with general rules is that they are not always applicable. And it's my sense that tennis has for the most part been much more high profile in the era of slow courts than in the one of fast courts that preceded it (which I also loved). It was routine in the 1990s for both fans and pundits to complain that the serve-dominated tennis seen above all at Wimbledon was boring. I can trace this back at least as far as 1991, when Arthur Ashe wrote an op-ed calling the men's semi-finals at Wimbledon boring. While some posters find long rallies boring, I don't think that the general sense of the tennis-watching public or the sports-watching public with an interest in tennis has been that the play of recent times has been boring.
 

norcal

Hall of Fame
Agreed but that's mostly because once they sign their first rookie contract, they're guaranteed high 6 figure to 7 figure contracts.
In tennis, you get peanuts. There's no money in it unless you make it in the top 30 or something. They don't sign any guaranteed contracts. They just live off their winnings which for some is less than $20K per year. An NBA player gets a minimum contract salary of around $870K or around that.
No, it's because tennis has a very small talent pool to choose from: very few kids grow up belonging to tennis clubs and getting high level coaching from a young age.
Any kid (if talented enough) has the opportunity rise up through the ranks in basketball and football. The talent pool is huge and the cost of entry isn't high. The opposite of tennis.

Go to your local highschool and watch the basketball, football and tennis team. Let me know which team(s) has the athletes.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
No, it's because tennis has a very small talent pool to choose from: very few kids grow up belonging to tennis clubs and getting high level coaching from a young age.
Any kid (if talented enough) has the opportunity rise up through the ranks in basketball and football. The talent pool is huge and the cost of entry isn't high. The opposite of tennis.

Go to your local highschool and watch the basketball, football and tennis team. Let me know which team(s) has the athletes.
To make it worse, most of the college scholarships go to foreign kids anyway. Total waste of $100k+ for tennis if your kid is remotely athletic.
 

6august

Hall of Fame
Right now? Obviously it's Djokovic. His return lands on opponents feet before they know what happens. Since he stands on the baseline, his direction changes will be too much for most of his opponents who have already tailored their games to adapt the current condion.
 

6august

Hall of Fame
I think the obvious ones are Shapo, Tsitsipas and maybe Sinner. There will be others, but we haven't even heard of them.

Problem is, just speeding up the playing conditions isn't enough to repair the game. Racquets and strings are an even bigger problem.
How racquets can be a problem when Federer and Djokovic use the same racquet as Sampras and Agassi?
 

Mike Sams

Legend
No, it's because tennis has a very small talent pool to choose from: very few kids grow up belonging to tennis clubs and getting high level coaching from a young age.
Any kid (if talented enough) has the opportunity rise up through the ranks in basketball and football. The talent pool is huge and the cost of entry isn't high. The opposite of tennis.

Go to your local highschool and watch the basketball, football and tennis team. Let me know which team(s) has the athletes.
I live in Africa so I don't know anything about these American sports. I just see half naked kids living in poverty kicking around mud filled footballs on the street.:laughing:
 
Let's talk real talk: the only reason the courts are still so slow is the Djokodal slam race. Tennis is already circling the drain, so once that's over, they will have to speed up the courts again to avoid the horror of countless goffin vs. medvedev grand slam finals.

Lighter balls, faster courts, probably abbreviated scoring, et. Who wins the most? Rublev? Kyrgios? Thiem?
Thiem is my pick....
 
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