Who would have done better without Djokovic?

Best without Djokovic


  • Total voters
    23

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Who would have done better without Djokovic among these players?

2011 Davis Cup R16 - 2012 Australian Open Nadal

Possible titles: Indian Wells, Miami, MonteCarlo, Barcelona, Madrid, Rome, Roland Garros, Wimbledon, US Open, Davis Cup, Australian Open
Possible ATP points: 14,820
Possible overall score: 78-8 (90.7%)

2015 Dubai - 2016 Australian Open Federer

Possible titles: Dubai, Indian Wells, Instanbul. Rome, Roland Garros, Halle, Wimbledon, Cincinnati, Basel, ATP Finals, Australian Open
Possible ATP points: 13,030
Possible overall score: 72-6 (92.3%)

2016 Australian Open - 2017 Doha Murray

Possible titles: Australian Open, Madrid, Rome, Roland Garros, Queen's, Wimbledon, Olympics, Bejing, Shanghai, Vienna, Paris Bercy, ATP Finals, Doha
Possible ATP points: 14,660
Possible overall score: 86-6 (93.5%)

2018 Davis Cup QF - 2019 Indian Wells Nadal

Possible titles: MonteCarlo, Barcelona, Rome, Roland Garros, Wimbledon, Canadian Open, Australian Open
Possible ATP points: 10,805
Possible overall score: 55-3 (94.8%)
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal of course. He was playing very good but Djokovic was playing even better than him. His results would have looked so much better without Djokovic between 2011-2012.
Of course Djokovic's results also would have looked even better without Nadal around between 2012-2014.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Competition wasn't as tough in the later periods so there's a bigger chance of Fed cleaning up the slams and YEC than Nadal doing so in 2011-2012 IMO (despite Nadal playing better tennis). Nadal has a decent shot at 4 in a row, biggest question mark being the USO IMO. But I think Fed is a bigger favourite to sweeping Wim/USO/AO in 2015/2016. Nadal wins more masters in his period but no YEC. Probably Nadal is the answer as he has a FO in the bank regardless.
 

JaoSousa

Hall of Fame
Who would have done better without Djokovic among these players?

2011 Davis Cup R16 - 2012 Australian Open Nadal

Possible titles: Indian Wells, Miami, MonteCarlo, Barcelona, Madrid, Rome, Roland Garros, Wimbledon, US Open, Davis Cup, Australian Open
Possible ATP points: 14,820
Possible overall score: 78-8 (90.7%)

2015 Dubai - 2016 Australian Open Federer

Possible titles: Dubai, Indian Wells, Instanbul. Rome, Roland Garros, Halle, Wimbledon, Cincinnati, Basel, ATP Finals, Australian Open
Possible ATP points: 13,030
Possible overall score: 72-6 (92.3%)

2016 Australian Open - 2017 Doha Murray

Possible titles: Australian Open, Madrid, Rome, Roland Garros, Queen's, Wimbledon, Olympics, Bejing, Shanghai, Vienna, Paris Bercy, ATP Finals, Doha
Possible ATP points: 14,660
Possible overall score: 86-6 (93.5%)

2018 Davis Cup QF - 2019 Indian Wells Nadal

Possible titles: MonteCarlo, Barcelona, Rome, Roland Garros, Wimbledon, Canadian Open, Australian Open
Possible ATP points: 10,805
Possible overall score: 55-3 (94.8%)
Why are you including tournaments they already won? Could you make a new list with only tournaments that Novak stopped them from winning?
 

Fiero425

Legend
Nadal of course. He was playing very good but Djokovic was playing even better than him. His results would have looked so much better without Djokovic between 2011-2012.
Of course Djokovic's results also would have looked even better without Nadal around between 2012-2014.

I've written extensively about this period over the years! One of Nadal's major failings has been his inability to play and sustain his highest level of play without breaking down physically! His best chance in his prime was 2011! He had owned the tour and Federer for 2010 and was seriously challenging to hold the #1 ranking for a longer stretch than 50 weeks! Unfortunately Nole's run to #1 started with Serbia taking Davis Cup, marching him into a run for the ages winning Australian Open, The Sunshine Double in IW/Miami, then dominated his rival, Rafa in final after final on clay in Madrid and Rome in straights! If not for Federer playing out of his mind and serving Djokovic off the court in the SF, Paris might have solidified Nole's dominance over Fedal a lot earlier! :p
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
I've written extensively about this period over the years! One of Nadal's major failings has been his inability to play and sustain his highest level of play without breaking down physically! His best chance in his prime was 2011! He had owned the tour and Federer for 2010 and was seriously challenging to hold the #1 ranking for a longer stretch than 50 weeks! Unfortunately Nole's run to #1 started with Serbia taking Davis Cup, marching him into a run for the ages winning Australian Open, The Sunshine Double in IW/Miami, then dominated his rival, Rafa in final after final on clay in Madrid and Rome in straights! If not for Federer playing out of his mind and serving Djokovic off the court in the SF, Paris might have solidified Nole's dominance over Fedal a lot earlier! :p

2011 was supposed to have been Nadal cementing his legacy as an all surface great and getting closer to Federer's total. He would have had 12 Slams after 2011, 14 after 2012, and 16 after 2013. He would have reached Federer's 17 in 2014, whereas it took him until 2018 with Djokovic around. No one saw Djokovic 2011 coming.
 

Fiero425

Legend
2011 was supposed to have been Nadal cementing his legacy as an all surface great and getting closer to Federer's total. He would have had 12 Slams after 2011, 14 after 2012, and 16 after 2013. He would have reached Federer's 17 in 2014, whereas it took him until 2018 with Djokovic around. No one saw Djokovic 2011 coming.

It changed the course of history; just those few months starting 2011! Fedal was being replaced by Nadovic except in the hearts and minds of the tennis intelligentsia and MSM! ;-) ;)
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
Nadal, easily. Can't imagine anyone else is taking any of those finals from him. Hell, without the mental beatdown Novak gave him he probably would have done even better in Canada.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
It changed the course of history; just those few months starting 2011! Fedal was being replaced by Nadovic except in the hearts and minds of the tennis intelligentsia and MSM! ;-) ;)

If you could keep everything the same (which mostly likely wouldn't happen but fun to look back), right now Nadal would have 25 Slams and Federer would have 26 without Djokovic. It definitely changed the course of history.
 
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Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Lew II is the answer to the OP.

He'd have led a much better and more fulfilling life had Novak Djokovic not become the subject of his obsession.
 

Fiero425

Legend
Nadal would've cleaned up in 2011 just like he did in 2010. If not for Earth's Mightiest Warrior.

That's why I appreciated Nole so much I created a blog in his honor! He single-handedly changed the course of history because so called experts had already anointed Rafa the new GOAT with his winning H2H over Federer! McEnroe & Wilander were beating the drum early and often! Nole spared my sanity; "THANKS!" :cautious:
 

DjokoGOAT

Semi-Pro
Nadal 2011. He played at a higher level than 2010 but faced peak BOAT instead of Berdych, soderling, Youzny, pre gluten baby Djokovic.
 

clout

Hall of Fame
That's why I appreciated Nole so much I created a blog in his honor! He single-handedly changed the course of history because so called experts had already anointed Rafa the new GOAT with his winning H2H over Federer! McEnroe & Wilander were beating the drum early and often! Nole spared my sanity; "THANKS!" :cautious:
Novak’s rise in 2011 were the equivalent to the Golden State Warriors rise around 2015. It looked like LeBron was on his way to GOAThood after his second title in Miami and he may have won 4 titles in a row without Golden State, likely putting him past Jordan. Nadal may have won 10/13 majors between ‘10 RG and ‘13 USO, which probably puts him ahead of Federer by joe
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
That's why I appreciated Nole so much I created a blog in his honor! He single-handedly changed the course of history because so called experts had already anointed Rafa the new GOAT with his winning H2H over Federer! McEnroe & Wilander were beating the drum early and often! Nole spared my sanity; "THANKS!" :cautious:
I also thought it would be the Nadal Era after Fed started declining. It just seemed like CYGS was imminent, with Djokovic the only hope to resist his dominance.
And he sure resisted!
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
All these players could've been the title holders of 3 slams without Nole:

2011-12 Nadal (all four)
2012-13 Murray (UO, AO, WI)
2014-15 Murray (UO, AO, RG)
2015-16 Federer (WI, UO, AO)
2016 Murray (AO, RG, WI)
2018-19 Nadal (RG, WI, AO)
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
2011 was supposed to have been Nadal cementing his legacy as an all surface great and getting closer to Federer's total. He would have had 12 Slams after 2011, 14 after 2012, and 16 after 2013. He would have reached Federer's 17 in 2014, whereas it took him until 2018 with Djokovic around. No one saw Djokovic 2011 coming.
Why are we even giving Nadal the 2011 USO victory like it's a sure thing?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Nadal, easily. Can't imagine anyone else is taking any of those finals from him. Hell, without the mental beatdown Novak gave him he probably would have done even better in Canada.
Fed could beat Rafa at the 2011 USO. I'm not giving that one to Rafa that easily.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Among the poll options, Nadal 2011-2012.

Overall? No diubt Fed has been hurt more by Djokovic than Nadal. It's not even close.
 

Odinn21

Rookie
Voted for Nadal because in general, I hold peak/prime as the utmost important thing for a career. Longevity comes after that. Nadal's prime would have gone differently without Djokovic.
But in terms of potentially lost Grand Slam and Masters titles, Federer lost more than Nadal to Djokovic. Federer is already goat of longevity, but he might be the certain goat on overall if he Djokovic didn't exist.

From 2015 to today,
Federer went 1-4 against Djokovic in Masters and 1-3 in finals.
Also went 2-1 against Djokovic in Tour Finals but 2 of his wins came in RR and he lost a final to Djokovic.
And 0-5 against Djokovic in Grand Slams, 0-3 in finals.
Federer lost 7 finals (3 GS, 1 TF, 3 M) against Djokovic when he had a chance to solidify his status as the goat. And the times he lost to Novak, it was in semi-finals and Federer had a great chance to win those tournaments.

Though, it cuts three ways. Djokovic took away from Federer and Nadal. Nadal took away from Federer and Djokovic. Federer took away from Nadal and Djokovic. Nothing to be surprised about.
 
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