Who Would Have More Slams if Fed had never been born: Rafa or Nole?

[Nadalgaenger]

So let's imagine that Fed had never been born.
Sampras would have been the GOAT.

Who would have more slams in 2017 and how many would Rafa and Nole have?

For Nadal, we can assume he wins the following:
2006 and 2007 Wimbledon
2017 AO
BUT He may have lost the 2011 FO to Djokovic (as no Fed would have eliminated him).
That would give Nadal at least 17 and possibly 18 slams and counting.

For Djokovic, We can assume he wins at least SOME of the following:
2007 USO? (Or would someline like Roddick have taken him out in the F?)
2008 USO vs Murray?
2009 USO vs. Delpo?
2010 USO (more energy for final against Nadal since he wouldn't have had grueling 5 sets with Fed in SF)?
2011 FO vs Nadal (He had Nadal's number on clay in 2011)
2012 W vs. Murray? (very tough call)

Let's assume Nole wins 4/6 (a generous estimate). That would give him 16 slams currently but with better surface variety and perhaps longevity over Nadal.

Imagine how intense the GOAT debate would be on here if these two were neck and neck in slams.

BTW, I stil think Novak can surpass Nadal but he obviously needs Nadal to stop winning slams!

 

[-NN-]

I wonder how the Slams from 2004-2007 would be distributed more than anything...

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

I wonder how the Slams from 2004-2007 would be distributed more than anything...

Roddick with a couple of Wimbledons and US Opens. Yikes.

 

[tennisaddict]

Give Rafa both the Wimbledons and 2017 AO.
Novak gets the 2007 USO, 2011 FO.
Murray gets 2012 Wimb, 2008 USO, 2010 AO.
Roddick gets 3 Wimbledons.

 

[Booger]

In this thread: OP finds Doc Brown's Delorean and his first order of business is to take Roger's mom to the under the sea dance

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Take Roger out of the game and Wally Masur could be holding a record of 24 slams. Nadal and Djokovic could be firemen or a barber. Just don't know.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

I wonder how the Slams from 2004-2007 would be distributed more than anything...

Roddick would be a borderline ATG, as would Hewitt probably.
Murray would definitely have 5 or more slams.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Give Rafa both the Wimbledons and 2017 AO.
Novak gets the 2007 USO, 2011 FO.
Murray gets 2012 Wimb, 2008 USO, 2010 AO.
Roddick gets 3 Wimbledons.

So a tired Murray would have taken out Nole in the 2008 USO?

 

[MichaelNadal]

The Mummy was not beating Nadal at the 2011 FO enough of that nonsense

 

[Mazz Retic]

Would nalby sneak a slam in the 2004-07 period?

 

[Rafa24]

I wonder how the Slams from 2004-2007 would be distributed more than anything...

A bunch of 0-2x slam scrubs would be 1-4x slam winners. Only 4 of rogers 19 have come against Djoker and Nadal. muzzard would benefit the most and vulture like fed does when novak and rafa aren't around. Safe to say Rafa would have 18 minimum and probably more as he and djoker would have always been on opposite sides of the draw.

 

[deacsyoga]

Sampras was not widely considered the GOAT even when he retired, so your point on Sampras being the GOAT couldnt be more false.

As for who would have more slams, it would almost obviously be Nadal. Neither Nadal or Djokovic lost out on many slams due to Federer, probably only about 2-3 each, Federer in fact lost out on a lot more due to each of them than vice versa, so they would compare roughly the same as they do now.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Sampras was not widely considered the GOAT even when he retired

Yes he was.

Is still first tier, alongside Federer and Borg, ahead of Rafa. Dominance is dominance. Second place is first loser.

 

[KINGROGER]

Djokovic:

2 USO 1 RG

Nadal:

2 Wimbledons 1 AO (loses 2011 to Djokovic imo)

Murray: 1 Wimbledon 1 AO (2010)

Roddick: 3 Wimbledon 1 USO 1 AO

Nadal 17 slams
Djokovic 15 slams
Roddick 6 slams
Murray 5 slams

 

[KINGROGER]

A bunch of 0-2x slam scrubs would be 1-4x slam winners. Only 4 of rogers 19 have come against Djoker and Nadal. muzzard would benefit the most and vulture like fed does when novak and rafa aren't around. Safe to say Rafa would have 18 minimum and probably more as he and djoker would have always been on opposite sides of the draw.

06 Wimbledon
07 Wimbledon
07 AO
07 USO
08 USO
12 Wimbledon
17 AO

Firstly 7, not 4. Secondly, most of Rafa's RG wins came vs hard courters Fedalovic LOL. Lastly, it's irrelevant if the wins came vs Djokodal... look at Nadal's crappy draws for both USO wins and Wimbledon 2010 lmao.

 

[clayqueen]

If Fed had not been born who would have benefitted from the weak era?

 

[Rafa the King]

06 Wimbledon
07 Wimbledon
07 AO
07 USO
08 USO
12 Wimbledon
17 AO

Firstly 7, not 4. Secondly, most of Rafa's RG wins came vs hard courters Fedalovic LOL. Lastly, it's irrelevant if the wins came vs Djokodal... look at Nadal's crappy draws for both USO wins and Wimbledon 2010 lmao.

Philipousis
Roddick
Roddick
Clay specialist Nadal
Clay specialist Nadal
Roddick
Murray
Cilic

LMAO

 

[True Fanerer]

Anything before 2011 for Djokovic is hard to say. I believe Rafa would lead the count

 

[True Fanerer]

If Fed had not been born who would have benefitted from the weak era?

Roddick

 

[Omega_7000]

If Fed had not been born who would have benefitted from the weak era?

Again with the weak era nonsense. A 35 year old Fed winning 2 slams in your supposedly "strong era" completely crushes your argument.

If Fed was at his peak now, he would have dominated this era too and made it look weak.

 

[deacsyoga]

Yes he was.

Is still first tier, alongside Federer and Borg, ahead of Rafa. Dominance is dominance. Second place is first loser.

You are just talking Open Era only. Virtually nobody ever rated Sampras above Laver, and no serious tennis expert had him over Gonzales either, which already means he was never the GOAT when he retired.

Most people today have Rafa and Borg both above Sampras btw. Rafa imparticular. When Sampras retired a lot more had him over Borg than do today. Probably a combination of recency bias which has now worn off, and Sampras's biggest achievements losing lustre since Federer trumped them all, while the most impressive things about Borg's career are still intact apart from Nadal surpassing him on clay.

 

[KINGROGER]

Philipousis
Roddick
Roddick
Clay specialist Nadal
Clay specialist Nadal
Roddick
Murray
Cilic

LMAO

8 x HC specialist Fedalovic
Puerta
Ferrer

LMAO

We can do this for anyone.

 

[KINGROGER]

If Fed had not been born who would have benefitted from the weak era?

Certainly not Rafa. He was too busy losing to "weak era mugs" Gonzalez, Blake, Hewitt, Youzny LMAO

Serious reply: was never a weak era. The slams would be spread among the many quality talented players such as Roddick, Hewitt, Nalbandian, Agassi, Safin, Ferrero etc, rather than the GOAT making them all look average at times.

 

[Djokovic2011]

The Mummy was not beating Nadal at the 2011 FO enough of that nonsense

Ooh it's just so easy for you to be cocky after the fact. I bet at the time you were praying hard for Fed to take Novak down, just like you were a few months later when they met in NYC.

 

[deacsyoga]

Djokovic:

2 USO 1 RG

Nadal:

2 Wimbledons 1 AO (loses 2011 to Djokovic imo)

Murray: 1 Wimbledon 1 AO (2010)

Roddick: 3 Wimbledon 1 USO 1 AO

Nadal 17 slams
Djokovic 15 slams
Roddick 6 slams
Murray 5 slams

Probably about that, although I wouldnt want to bet money on Djokovic beating Nadal in the 2011 RG final despite Nadal being in his worst clay form of the entire 2005-2014 period and being in the midst of Djokovic's 7 match win streak over Nadal. Just hard to bet against Nadal at RG ever, and Djokovic being just about the biggest RG choker of all time in general too you almost imagine he would probably find someway to lose.

I wouldnt bet on Nadal winning both Wimbledons he lost to Federer either. He has a good shot of winning both of course, but might have lost one of them, more likely 2006. Not a specific person in mind who beats him, he just isnt ever unbeatable on grass is all. And in 2006 his draw was super easy also.

 

[deacsyoga]

Again with the weak era nonsense. A 35 year old Fed winning 2 slams in your supposedly "strong era" completely crushes your argument.

If Fed was at his peak now, he would have dominated this era too and made it look weak.

I am not sure what you are talking about, but I have not heard either the womens or mens game being referred to as a "strong era" in many years now. Not since atleast 2011 or 2012 probably for the men, and more like not since 2008 for the women. Personally I think the last strong era in the mens game was probably sometime in the 90s, LOL!

 

[Fedfan34]

Sampras, wins 2001 Wimbledon, enjoys a late career resurgence and wins 5/6 Wimbledon and US Opens ending with 19 majors.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

GOAT.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Roddick with a couple of Wimbledons and US Opens. Yikes.

I never was a Roddick fan, but he certainly would have been favored over either Rafa or Djoker at Wimbledon 2006-2010. Nadal never could return the huge serves on grass and Roddick was bringing it at 137 MPH those years on first serve.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Ooh it's just so easy for you to be cocky after the fact. I bet at the time you were praying hard for Fed to take Novak down, just like you were a few months later when they met in NYC.

I just think Nadal played superb tennis in the final.

 

[Sirius Black]

Roddick with a couple of Wimbledons and US Opens. Yikes.

What in Davy Jones’ locker did ye just bark at me, ye scurvy bilgerat? I’ll have ye know I be the meanest cutthroat on the seven seas, and I’ve led numerous raids on fishing villages, and ***** over 300 wenches. I be trained in hit-and-run pillaging and be the deadliest with a pistol of all the captains on the high seas. Ye be nothing to me but another source o’ swag. I’ll have yer guts for garters and keel haul ye like never been done before, hear me true. You think ye can hide behind your newfangled computing device? Think twice on that, scallywag. As we parley I be contacting my secret network o’ pirates across the sea and yer port is being tracked right now so ye better prepare for the typhoon, weevil. The kind o’ monsoon that’ll wipe ye off the map. You’re sharkbait, fool. I can sail anywhere, in any waters, and can kill ye in o’er seven hundred ways, and that be just with me hook and fist. Not only do I be top o’ the line with a cutlass, but I have an entire pirate fleet at my beck and call and I’ll damned sure use it all to wipe yer arse off o’ the world, ye dog. If only ye had had the foresight to know what devilish wrath your jibe was about to incur, ye might have belayed the comment. But ye couldn’t, ye didn’t, and now ye’ll pay the ultimate toll, you buffoon. I’ll **** fury all over ye and ye’ll drown in the depths o’ it. You’re fish food now, lad.

 

[ibbi]

Let me go through this beyond just Novak and Rafa, because it's an interesting one to consider.

2003 Wimbledon -- This is a tough one... I think Big Mark would like his chances against Andy. I think Philippoussis might have been Wimbledon champ.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W

2004 Australian Open -- Tough to look past Marat here. I know he played a bunch of 5 setters, so tiredness is maybe a factor, but he knocked off 2 slam holders in succession. I don't think anyone got close enough to Federer on the other side to make me think they'd have a shot against him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO

2004 Wimbledon -- I think Roddick is unstoppable here. I know Lleyton will have liked his chances, but if Roddick played Federer as close as he did I can't see Hewitt stopping him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W

2004 US Open -- I think it probably comes down to Hewitt and Agassi. Is Andre's case inflated on account of how much wind there was on QF day? I don't know, but Hewitt was so very, very far away on finals day I'm really tempted to think Agassi could have outlasted him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO

2005 Wimbledon -- Now this is a tough one. I'm pretty sure it was this year that Hewitt was pissed he was in Roger's half instead of Andy's, and given Roddick's Saturday semi finaling I am tempted to think he might have had a case.

Mark Philippoussis -- 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 1USO

2005 US Open -- It's tough to pick against Agassi here, and for 3 sets in that final his effort was so high that especially with that crowd behind him you have to like his chances of beating almost anyone, but Hewitt always thrived in hostile environments in a way Federer never really did, and given Andre's back to back 5 setters you have to believe he was there to be ground down. Too close to call, but I'll go with the head over the heart, and say Hewitt gets his revenge after losing the potential final the year before

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO

2006 Australian Open -- Wide open. I think cases can be made for Haas, Davydenko, Kiefer, and Baghdatis. It's hard to pick against Baghsy, especially with the crowd support that he was getting, but all of those 5 setters had to have caught up to him eventually. I feel like Davydenko would almost certainly have choked in that atmosphere, but Kiefer, and certainly Haas? I think the closeness of those first 2 sets in the final make me think Baghdatis has a decent shot against those lesser dudes.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO

2006 Wimbledon -- Don't really see anyone else toppling Nadal, though I think Ancic would probably have been the guy across the net.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 3W, 2USO

2006 US Open -- I think Roddick is probably the guy here. Though I think Blake would probably be the guy in his way, and I don't think he would go away easy. That QF with Fed was one of my faves from 2006.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 2USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 3W, 2USO

2007 Australian Open -- I like Roddick's chances here. He might have been schooled in that semi final, but you've always got to like his chances against Gonzo, and especially if we're thinking he's coming off a USO win he'd be high on confidence.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 2USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 3W, 2USO


2007 Wimbledon -- Less reason to doubt than in 2006. Nadal with ease.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 2USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO

2007 US Open -- This is a good one. I think the final is Roddick and Djokovic. Both of them fought Roger very close for 2 sets, while Novak remained closer in the third than Andy did, and Novak had beaten Andy in Canada a few weeks prior, but in this fantasy scenario where Roddick is defending champ, and given how he was more often than not a bad match up for Novak I'd give it to him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO

2008 US Open -- Djokovic. Obviously.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO

2009 Roland Garros - Another good one. I think Delpo and Soderling is the final, and one of these men is a proven final choker, while one is a proven riser to the occasion. Maybe there is less chance of Soderling choking if he's facing a baby instead of a legend, but I still think Delpo outhits him, and against a player like Soderling is less likely to be concerned by the physical troubles he had going the distance with Federer.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO

2009 Wimbledon -- Yeah, nobody else in that draw is stopping Roddick here.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 2W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO

2010 Australian Open -- Can't see past Muzza here.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 2W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 2W

2011 Roland Garros -- Maybe the most obvious one out of all of them?

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 2W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 2W

2012 Wimbledon - Wouldn't pick against Andy here. I think he was really good in that final, and Novak pretty lacklustre through most of 2012.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 2W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 3W

I don't think anything actually changes here, but I think Stan makes the final at Wimbledon in 2014, and given how well he was playing till half way through that second set against Fed, and given how poor Novak looked through both his last 2 matches... There might have been something there...

I think Murray would put up a hell of a fight in the 2015 final too.

USO 2015... Final against Stan? Hmm... Who knows. Still think Novak comes through considering how much he actually overcame that night, but all three of those finals might have been really interesting.

I think Cilic might have made the 2016 Wimbledon final, and though he's likely to have choked... Maybe... Not?

2017 Australian Open - Nadal

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1 USO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 2W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 2AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 3W

2017 Wimbledon - Yeesh... Berdych? Dimitrov? If we consider Cilic did in fact pick up his blister issue in the semi final then I can't see any way that he wins this. I think it would have been Grigor and Berdy in the other semi final, and... Well, it'd be one of them.

Here's the other question... What happens at Wimbledon 2001??? I like Rafter's chances.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W - 1
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1USO - 3
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 2W, 3USO - 6
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO - 9
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO - 4
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO - 1
Rafael Nadal - 2AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO - 17
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO - 14
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO - 2
Sir Andy Murray - 1AO, 3W, 1USO - 5
Grigor Dimitrov - 1W - 1
Pat Rafter - 1W, 2USO - 3

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Let me go through this beyond just Novak and Rafa, because it's an interesting one to consider.

2003 Wimbledon -- This is a tough one... I think Big Mark would like his chances against Andy. I think Philippoussis might have been Wimbledon champ.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W

2004 Australian Open -- Tough to look past Marat here. I know he played a bunch of 5 setters, so tiredness is maybe a factor, but he knocked off 2 slam holders in succession. I don't think anyone got close enough to Federer on the other side to make me think they'd have a shot against him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO

2004 Wimbledon -- I think Roddick is unstoppable here. I know Lleyton will have liked his chances, but if Roddick played Federer as close as he did I can't see Hewitt stopping him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W

2004 US Open -- I think it probably comes down to Hewitt and Agassi. Is Andre's case inflated on account of how much wind there was on QF day? I don't know, but Hewitt was so very, very far away on finals day I'm really tempted to think Agassi could have outlasted him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO

2005 Wimbledon -- Now this is a tough one. I'm pretty sure it was this year that Hewitt was pissed he was in Roger's half instead of Andy's, and given Roddick's Saturday semi finaling I am tempted to think he might have had a case.

Mark Philippoussis -- 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 1USO

2005 US Open -- It's tough to pick against Agassi here, and for 3 sets in that final his effort was so high that especially with that crowd behind him you have to like his chances of beating almost anyone, but Hewitt always thrived in hostile environments in a way Federer never really did, and given Andre's back to back 5 setters you have to believe he was there to be ground down. Too close to call, but I'll go with the head over the heart, and say Hewitt gets his revenge after losing the potential final the year before

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO

2006 Australian Open -- Wide open. I think cases can be made for Haas, Davydenko, Kiefer, and Baghdatis. It's hard to pick against Baghsy, especially with the crowd support that he was getting, but all of those 5 setters had to have caught up to him eventually. I feel like Davydenko would almost certainly have choked in that atmosphere, but Kiefer, and certainly Haas? I think the closeness of those first 2 sets in the final make me think Baghdatis has a decent shot against those lesser dudes.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO

2006 Wimbledon -- Don't really see anyone else toppling Nadal, though I think Ancic would probably have been the guy across the net.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 3W, 2USO

2006 US Open -- I think Roddick is probably the guy here. Though I think Blake would probably be the guy in his way, and I don't think he would go away easy. That QF with Fed was one of my faves from 2006.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 2USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 3W, 2USO

2007 Australian Open -- I like Roddick's chances here. He might have been schooled in that semi final, but you've always got to like his chances against Gonzo, and especially if we're thinking he's coming off a USO win he'd be high on confidence.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 2USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 3W, 2USO


2007 Wimbledon -- Less reason to doubt than in 2006. Nadal with ease.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 2USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO

2007 US Open -- This is a good one. I think the final is Roddick and Djokovic. Both of them fought Roger very close for 2 sets, while Novak remained closer in the third than Andy did, and Novak had beaten Andy in Canada a few weeks prior, but in this fantasy scenario where Roddick is defending champ, and given how he was more often than not a bad match up for Novak I'd give it to him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO

2008 US Open -- Djokovic. Obviously.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO

2009 Roland Garros - Another good one. I think Delpo and Soderling is the final, and one of these men is a proven final choker, while one is a proven riser to the occasion. Maybe there is less chance of Soderling choking if he's facing a baby instead of a legend, but I still think Delpo outhits him, and against a player like Soderling is less likely to be concerned by the physical troubles he had going the distance with Federer.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO

2010 Australian Open -- Can't see past Muzza here.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 2W

2011 Roland Garros -- Maybe the most obvious one out of all of them?

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 2W

2012 Wimbledon - Wouldn't pick against Andy here. I think he was really good in that final, and Novak pretty lacklustre through most of 2012.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 3W

I don't think anything actually changes here, but I think Stan makes the final at Wimbledon in 2014, and given how well he was playing till half way through that second set against Fed, and given how poor Novak looked through both his last 2 matches... There might have been something there...

I think Murray would put up a hell of a fight in the 2015 final too.

USO 2015... Final against Stan? Hmm... Who knows. Still think Novak comes through considering how much he actually overcame that night, but all three of those finals might have been really interesting.

I think Cilic might have made the 2016 Wimbledon final, and though he's likely to have choked... Maybe... Not?

2017 Australian Open - Nadal

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 2AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 3W

2017 Wimbledon - Yeesh... Berdych? Dimitrov? If we consider Cilic did in fact pick up his blister issue in the semi final then I can't see any way that he wins this. I think it would have been Grigor and Berdy in the other semi final, and... Well, it'd be one of them.

Here's the other question... What happens at Wimbledon 2001??? I like Rafter's chances.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W - 1
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1USO - 3
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO - 5
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO - 8
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO - 4
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO - 1
Rafael Nadal - 2AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO - 17
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO - 14
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO - 2
Sir Andy Murray - 1AO, 3W, 1USO - 5
Grigor Dimitrov - 1W - 1
Pat Rafter - 1W, 2USO - 3

Awesome post! Good call on 2009 Delpo!

 

[Nadalgaenger]

I never was a Roddick fan, but he certainly would have been favored over either Rafa or Djoker at Wimbledon 2006-2010. Nadal never could return the huge serves on grass and Roddick was bringing it at 137 MPH those years on first serve.

Fed only eliminated Roddick in 2003-2005 and in 2009, so a Roddick/Nadal clash couldn't have happened.

It would have been a fascinating encounter.

I think Djokovic 2015 beats any version of Roddick though.

 

[NatF]

Let me go through this beyond just Novak and Rafa, because it's an interesting one to consider.

2003 Wimbledon -- This is a tough one... I think Big Mark would like his chances against Andy. I think Philippoussis might have been Wimbledon champ.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W

2004 Australian Open -- Tough to look past Marat here. I know he played a bunch of 5 setters, so tiredness is maybe a factor, but he knocked off 2 slam holders in succession. I don't think anyone got close enough to Federer on the other side to make me think they'd have a shot against him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO

2004 Wimbledon -- I think Roddick is unstoppable here. I know Lleyton will have liked his chances, but if Roddick played Federer as close as he did I can't see Hewitt stopping him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W

2004 US Open -- I think it probably comes down to Hewitt and Agassi. Is Andre's case inflated on account of how much wind there was on QF day? I don't know, but Hewitt was so very, very far away on finals day I'm really tempted to think Agassi could have outlasted him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO

2005 Wimbledon -- Now this is a tough one. I'm pretty sure it was this year that Hewitt was pissed he was in Roger's half instead of Andy's, and given Roddick's Saturday semi finaling I am tempted to think he might have had a case.

Mark Philippoussis -- 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 3USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 1USO

2005 US Open -- It's tough to pick against Agassi here, and for 3 sets in that final his effort was so high that especially with that crowd behind him you have to like his chances of beating almost anyone, but Hewitt always thrived in hostile environments in a way Federer never really did, and given Andre's back to back 5 setters you have to believe he was there to be ground down. Too close to call, but I'll go with the head over the heart, and say Hewitt gets his revenge after losing the potential final the year before

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO

2006 Australian Open -- Wide open. I think cases can be made for Haas, Davydenko, Kiefer, and Baghdatis. It's hard to pick against Baghsy, especially with the crowd support that he was getting, but all of those 5 setters had to have caught up to him eventually. I feel like Davydenko would almost certainly have choked in that atmosphere, but Kiefer, and certainly Haas? I think the closeness of those first 2 sets in the final make me think Baghdatis has a decent shot against those lesser dudes.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO

2006 Wimbledon -- Don't really see anyone else toppling Nadal, though I think Ancic would probably have been the guy across the net.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 3W, 2USO

2006 US Open -- I think Roddick is probably the guy here. Though I think Blake would probably be the guy in his way, and I don't think he would go away easy. That QF with Fed was one of my faves from 2006.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 2USO, 1W
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 3W, 2USO

2007 Australian Open -- I like Roddick's chances here. He might have been schooled in that semi final, but you've always got to like his chances against Gonzo, and especially if we're thinking he's coming off a USO win he'd be high on confidence.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 2USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 3W, 2USO


2007 Wimbledon -- Less reason to doubt than in 2006. Nadal with ease.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 2USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO

2007 US Open -- This is a good one. I think the final is Roddick and Djokovic. Both of them fought Roger very close for 2 sets, while Novak remained closer in the third than Andy did, and Novak had beaten Andy in Canada a few weeks prior, but in this fantasy scenario where Roddick is defending champ, and given how he was more often than not a bad match up for Novak I'd give it to him.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO

2008 US Open -- Djokovic. Obviously.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO

2009 Roland Garros - Another good one. I think Delpo and Soderling is the final, and one of these men is a proven final choker, while one is a proven riser to the occasion. Maybe there is less chance of Soderling choking if he's facing a baby instead of a legend, but I still think Delpo outhits him, and against a player like Soderling is less likely to be concerned by the physical troubles he had going the distance with Federer.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO

2010 Australian Open -- Can't see past Muzza here.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 10RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 1RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 2W

2011 Roland Garros -- Maybe the most obvious one out of all of them?

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 2W

2012 Wimbledon - Wouldn't pick against Andy here. I think he was really good in that final, and Novak pretty lacklustre through most of 2012.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 1AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 3W

I don't think anything actually changes here, but I think Stan makes the final at Wimbledon in 2014, and given how well he was playing till half way through that second set against Fed, and given how poor Novak looked through both his last 2 matches... There might have been something there...

I think Murray would put up a hell of a fight in the 2015 final too.

USO 2015... Final against Stan? Hmm... Who knows. Still think Novak comes through considering how much he actually overcame that night, but all three of those finals might have been really interesting.

I think Cilic might have made the 2016 Wimbledon final, and though he's likely to have choked... Maybe... Not?

2017 Australian Open - Nadal

Mark Philippoussis - 1W
Marat Safin - 1AO
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO
Rafael Nadal - 2AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO
Andy Murray - 1AO, 3W

2017 Wimbledon - Yeesh... Berdych? Dimitrov? If we consider Cilic did in fact pick up his blister issue in the semi final then I can't see any way that he wins this. I think it would have been Grigor and Berdy in the other semi final, and... Well, it'd be one of them.

Here's the other question... What happens at Wimbledon 2001??? I like Rafter's chances.

Mark Philippoussis - 1W - 1
Marat Safin - 2AO, 1USO - 3
Andy Roddick - 1AO, 1W, 3USO - 5
Andre Agassi - 4AO, 1RG, 1W, 2USO - 8
Lleyton Hewitt - 2W, 2USO - 4
Marcos Baghdatis - 1AO - 1
Rafael Nadal - 2AO, 9RG, 4W, 2USO - 17
Novak Djokovic - 6AO, 2RG, 3W, 3USO - 14
Juan Martin Del Potro - 1RG, 1USO - 2
Sir Andy Murray - 1AO, 3W, 1USO - 5
Grigor Dimitrov - 1W - 1
Pat Rafter - 1W, 2USO - 3

I agree with most of this, I think you forgot 2009 Wimbledon which should go Roddick's way. You missed Agassi's 2004 USO victory in the final tally as well.

I might go with Nalbandian/Hewitt in 2004 at the AO and Davydenko for the AO in 2006. But otherwise I think the totals are about right.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

What in Davy Jones’ locker did ye just bark at me, ye scurvy bilgerat? I’ll have ye know I be the meanest cutthroat on the seven seas, and I’ve led numerous raids on fishing villages, and ***** over 300 wenches. I be trained in hit-and-run pillaging and be the deadliest with a pistol of all the captains on the high seas. Ye be nothing to me but another source o’ swag. I’ll have yer guts for garters and keel haul ye like never been done before, hear me true. You think ye can hide behind your newfangled computing device? Think twice on that, scallywag. As we parley I be contacting my secret network o’ pirates across the sea and yer port is being tracked right now so ye better prepare for the typhoon, weevil. The kind o’ monsoon that’ll wipe ye off the map. You’re sharkbait, fool. I can sail anywhere, in any waters, and can kill ye in o’er seven hundred ways, and that be just with me hook and fist. Not only do I be top o’ the line with a cutlass, but I have an entire pirate fleet at my beck and call and I’ll damned sure use it all to wipe yer arse off o’ the world, ye dog. If only ye had had the foresight to know what devilish wrath your jibe was about to incur, ye might have belayed the comment. But ye couldn’t, ye didn’t, and now ye’ll pay the ultimate toll, you buffoon. I’ll **** fury all over ye and ye’ll drown in the depths o’ it. You’re fish food now, lad.

 

[mike danny]

I agree with most of this, I think you forgot 2009 Wimbledon which should go Roddick's way. You missed Agassi's 2004 USO victory in the final tally as well.

I might go with Nalbandian/Hewitt in 2004 at the AO and Davydenko for the AO in 2006. But otherwise I think the totals are about right.

I don't think Scud would have beaten Roddick at 2003 Wimb. Roddick would go on to win the Canada-Cincy-USO triple, as well as end the year as no.1.

Without Fed in his way, Roddick would have won 2003 Wimb IMO.

 

[NatF]

I don't think Scud would have beaten Roddick at 2003 Wimb. Roddick would go on to win the Canada-Cincy-USO triple, as well as end the year as no.1.

Without Fed in his way, Roddick would have won 2003 Wimb IMO.

I'd have Roddick as favourite at Wimbledon in 2003 but no player has ever won their first 2 slams back to back, so who knows what might have happened. Roddick might have been the top seed at the USO in 2004 without Federer and he was playing well enough to be a toss up with anyone but Federer - so who knows what happens.

 

[ibbi]

I agree with most of this, I think you forgot 2009 Wimbledon which should go Roddick's way. You missed Agassi's 2004 USO victory in the final tally as well.

I might go with Nalbandian/Hewitt in 2004 at the AO and Davydenko for the AO in 2006. But otherwise I think the totals are about right.

Oops, and double oops. Thanks

 

[mike danny]

Oops, and double oops. Thanks

And I don't think Roddick would have lost Wimb 2003 to Scud.

 

[ibbi]

And I don't think Roddick would have lost Wimb 2003 to Scud.

Yeah, well it's definitely a close one. I think Philippoussis' performance in the final was good enough that I'd give him a shot against a lesser player.