Who would have most RG titles without Nadal on the way : Federer or Djokovic ?

[Deleted member 762343]

Nadal stopped Federer 6 times and Djokovic 7 times at RG. Without the god of clay on the way, Federer and Djokovic surely would have both won multiple RG titles. But the interesting question is : without Nadal, who would have the edge ? Federer or Djokovic ? I think it would be Djokovic.

- Federer : 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011
- Djokovic : 2008, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2020

So I think Federer would have 5 titles and Djokovic would have tied Borg.

 

[Deleted member 748597]

I don't know. I feel that someone else would beat them from time to time. They probably wouldn't be that dominant.

 

[USO]

Federer because he was only losing to Nadal. Djokovic was also losing to Wawrinka, Thiem, Cecchinato so even in the final he could still lose to someone else besides Nadal...

 

[mehdimike]

If there hadn't been any Nadal in 2020 ,Thiem could have had a free path to the SF-F and he might have won the whole thing.

 

[mehdimike]

2008 could be Federer's. He had problem(s) with Rafa's game not Nole's back then.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Sometimes I wish Rafa had become a football player like his uncle..

 

[TennisProExpert]

6 for Federer 5 for Djokovic.

 

[USO]

Without Nadal it would have been 11 for Federer and 1 each for Djokovic, Thiem and Wawrinka.

 

[Third Serve]

Fed definitely gets 5. Djokovic definitely gets 5.

2008 is odd. Fed was awful in the final, but how much of that was due to Nadal being his opponent and not someone else?

Would still lean Djokovic for that match but I wouldn't be too sure.

 

[SinneGOAT]

I give you, with no Nadal; 2005, 2006, 2007, maybe 2008 cause Djokovic would easily have made the final had Nadal not existed, 2011 and possibly 2019

 

[Fedal 2020]

2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011 to Fed.

2012, 2013, 2020 to Djokovic. He wasn't that good in 2014, someone else would have beaten him.

 

[Third Serve]

2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011 to Fed.

2012, 2013, 2020 to Djokovic. He wasn't that good in 2014, someone else would have beaten him.

How is Fed taking 2010?

BTW, who could have beaten Djokovic in 2014? Murray?

 

[zagor]

Let's see for Fed: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011.

Novak : 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2019 and 2020.

Though really, there's no way to know. The draws would be completely different and a few points could change any number of matches.

 

[Fedal 2020]

How is Fed taking 2010?

BTW, who could have beaten Djokovic in 2014? Murray?

W/o Nadal, I think Fed beats Soderling like he did the year before. Otherwise this exercise is simply about converting all their finals reached into wins in which case it would be 5-5. Djokovic wasn't impressive in 2014 but now you mention it there wasn't anyone particularly good that tournament and he won 2016 with a similar level...so maybe yeah.

 

[Fedal 2020]

Let's see for Fed: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011.

Novak : 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2019 and 2020.

Though really, there's no way to know. The draws would be completely different and a few points could change any number of matches.

Djokovic is not beating post 2018 Thiem at RG, no chance.

 

[ForehandRF]

Nadal stopped Federer 6 times and Djokovic 7 times at RG. Without the god of clay on the way, Federer and Djokovic surely would have both won multiple RG titles. But the interesting question is : without Nadal, who would have the edge ? Federer or Djokovic ? I think it would be Djokovic.

- Federer : 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011
- Djokovic : 2008, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2020

So I think Federer would have 5 titles and Djokovic would have tied Borg.

It's debatable who would have been the winner in 2008 between Fed and Novak.

 

[Fedal 2020]

Actually now that I think of it, no Nadal would also shake up the draws and someone like Thiem could have easily won 2020.

 

[BeatlesFan]

How is Fed taking 2010?

Fed said after he won the AO in 2010 that thoughts of the CYGS were in his head. But he won no tournaments leading up to RG that year and was in poor form by June, so I agree with you. 2010's off the table for Roger. He won 5 titles, but his level of play was pretty poor in 2010 overall.

 

[zagor]

Djokovic is not beating post 2018 Thiem at RG, no chance.

He would have beaten Thiem in 2019 if Nadal wasn't waiting in the final IMO.

 

[Third Serve]

Fed said after he won the AO in 2010 that thoughts of the CYGS were in his head. But he won no tournaments leading up to RG that year and was in poor form by June, so I agree with you. 2010's off the table for Roger. He won 5 titles, but his level of play was pretty poor in 2010 overall.

Peaked at the beginning and the ending of the season, but the middle was, well, middling.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

I don't know. I feel that someone else would beat them from time to time. They probably wouldn't be that dominant.

I think people tend to underestimate Prime Fedovic at RG. They were extremely good, Nadal just made them look less good then they really were.

It's debatable who would have been the winner in 2008 between Fed and Novak.

I know, just gave my opinion on who would have won. But it could have gone either way.

 

[TennisProExpert]

2008 I believe was mostly down to Rafa’s level and Fed’s problems with him in the final. He actually played a decent clay season before RG except the choking vs Rafa, including a win over Novak in Monte Carlo.

I think Fed takes it. He’s naturally the better on clay and can push Novak back with his FH. I don’t see Djokovic winning unless Fed has a nightmare and starts missing a lot.

 

[Beckerserve]

Federer because he was only losing to Nadal. Djokovic was also losing to Wawrinka, Thiem, Cecchinato so even in the final he could still lose to someone else besides Nadal...

This

 

[RS]

Fed 2005 , 2006 , 2007 , 2009 (already won) , 2011
Djoker 2012 , 2013 , 2014 , 2016 (already won) , 2020

2008 is 50-50. Puerta and PHM have a decent shot at beating Fed in 05/06 more than anybody would Novak in his wins but he is the favourite.

 

[augustobt]

2008 I believe was mostly down to Rafa’s level and Fed’s problems with him in the final. He actually played a decent clay season before RG except the choking vs Rafa, including a win over Novak in Monte Carlo.

I can't agree with this. He was really subpar on clay that year, what turned him around was that match against Ramirez Hidalgo and that as short-lived.

 

[Fedal 2020]

He would have beaten Thiem in 2019 if Nadal wasn't waiting in the final IMO.

That's only if we are assuming Thiem would have frozen in the slam final...Thiem's current best level on clay is something beyond reach for current Djokovic IMO....it took a Nadal rolling back the years twice to stop him and he still grabbed a set last time.

 

[ChrisRF]

2005 Federer
2006 Federer
2007 Federer
2008 Federer
2010 Söderling
2011 Federer
2012 Djokovic
2013 Djokovic
2014 Djokovic
2017 Wawrinka
2018 Thiem
2019 Thiem
2020 Schwartzman

Without Nadal AND without each other as opponents both Federer and Djokovic would have surpassed Borg.

 

[TennisProExpert]

I can't agree with this. He was really subpar on clay that year, what turned him around was that match against Ramirez Hidalgo and that as short-lived.

So was Djokovic apart from a close match vs Nadal and a vultured Rome title.

In their match up, Fed is the favourite on clay down to how they play against each other. RG isn’t a dead court where Djokovic can push with precision and depth to frustrate Fed.

 

[Third Serve]

2005 Federer
2006 Federer
2007 Federer
2008 Federer
2010 Söderling
2011 Federer
2012 Djokovic
2013 Djokovic
2014 Djokovic
2017 Wawrinka
2018 Thiem
2019 Thiem
2020 Schwartzman

Without Nadal AND without each other as opponents both Federer and Djokovic would have surpassed Borg.

Hold up

 

[RS]

Hold up

Small chance i would say.

 

[Third Serve]

Small chance i would say.

Yeah, but still...

 

[DSH]

2008 could be Federer's. He had problem(s) with Rafa's game not Nole's back then.

50/50 at least, with a slight superiority to Joker.

 

[ChrisRF]

Hold up

I admit it would be a risky bet, but he played the best against Nadal and IMO would have beaten THAT Djokovic in the final. Would go to 5 sets, but it could end like against Thiem.

 

[mike danny]

2005 Federer
2006 Federer
2007 Federer
2008 Federer
2010 Söderling
2011 Federer
2012 Djokovic
2013 Djokovic
2014 Djokovic
2017 Wawrinka
2018 Thiem
2019 Thiem
2020 Schwartzman

Without Nadal AND without each other as opponents both Federer and Djokovic would have surpassed Borg.

That's really sad.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

2005 Federer
2006 Federer
2007 Federer
2008 Federer
2010 Söderling
2011 Federer
2012 Djokovic
2013 Djokovic
2014 Djokovic
2017 Wawrinka
2018 Thiem
2019 Thiem
2020 Schwartzman

Without Nadal AND without each other as opponents both Federer and Djokovic would have surpassed Borg.

How ? Borg has 6 titles and you think Fedovic would have less than that.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

I don't know. I feel that someone else would beat them from time to time. They probably wouldn't be that dominant.

Wut?

They lost to Rafa in the semis and finales, not the 1st round!

Novak lost 7 times, RF 6 times. Altogether in 7 finales.

There is no round after the finale.

After the finale there's only champagne and long lines of free coke...

Spoiler

That was a joke about coke!

 

[DSH]

I give you, with no Nadal; 2005, 2006, 2007, maybe 2008 cause Djokovic would easily have made the final had Nadal not existed, 2011 and possibly 2019

 

[mehdimike]

50/50 at least, with a slight superiority to Joker.

Maybe, actually after the RG 2020 and how things have panned out, it's better not to predict anything even related to the past

 

[Beckerserve]

2005 Federer
2006 Federer
2007 Federer
2008 Federer
2010 Söderling
2011 Federer
2012 Djokovic
2013 Djokovic
2014 Djokovic
2017 Wawrinka
2018 Thiem
2019 Thiem
2020 Schwartzman

Without Nadal AND without each other as opponents both Federer and Djokovic would have surpassed Borg.

You think swartzman would have beat Djokovic on Sunday?

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Sometimes I wish Rafa had become a football player like his uncle..

... 'sometimes'?

 

[Beckerserve]

... 'sometimes'?

Good point. Would have played for Madrid then took out Messi every El Classico.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

2005 Federer
2006 Federer
2007 Federer
2008 Federer
2010 Söderling
2011 Federer
2012 Djokovic
2013 Djokovic
2014 Djokovic
2017 Wawrinka
2018 Thiem
2019 Thiem
2020 Schwartzman

Without Nadal AND without each other as opponents both Federer and Djokovic would have surpassed Borg.

Huh?

Rafa beat Djokovic in 2007 and 2008 semis. You assume RF disposes of him that easily?

At least one of those goes to Djokovic.

 

[Winner]

I think, Federer would have had a real chance to win FO in 2019 if Nadal wasn't playing. The way the schedule was playing out with Thiem Djokovic stretched over 2 days and with Thiem probably being very nervous in the final I think he would have won the tournament.

Federer in 4 vs Thiem.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

I think, Federer would have had a real chance to win FO in 2019 if Nadal wasn't playing. The way the schedule was playing out with Thiem Djokovic stretched over 2 days and with Thiem probably being very nervous in the final I think he would have won the tournament.

Federer in 4 vs Thiem.

Or maybe RF would have lead 40-15 in the 5th set...

 

[DSH]

I think, Federer would have had a real chance to win FO in 2019 if Nadal wasn't playing. The way the schedule was playing out with Thiem Djokovic stretched over 2 days and with Thiem probably being very nervous in the final I think he would have won the tournament.

Federer in 4 vs Thiem.

Peak Thiem is not going to be beaten by Federer, 37 years and 10 months, in the best of five sets on clay.
Come on!

 

[mike danny]

Peak Thiem is not going to be beaten by Federer, 37 years and 10 months, in the best of five sets on clay.
Come on!

Generally, not. But Thiem is not the mentally toughest tool in the shed either when it comes to big matches.

 

[ChrisRF]

Huh?

Rafa beat Djokovic in 2007 and 2008 semis. You assume RF disposes of him that easily?

At least one of those goes to Djokovic.

Definitely not 2007, because Federer always beat him easily that year apart from Montreal. In 2008 he lost in Australia, but generally still beat him rather convincingly. He also beat him on clay in Monte Carlo. Djokovic retired, but Federer already lead by a set and a break.

Remember that apart from Australia 2008 Djokovic wasn't a real factor at the Slams until late 2010.

 

[DSH]

Generally, not. But Thiem is not the mentally toughest tool in the shed either when it comes to big matches.

I completely disagree, but I suppose that many vote with their more emotional side than with the logical side.

 

[mike danny]

I completely disagree, but I suppose that many vote with their more emotional side than with the logical side.

I just watched Thiem rely on a colossal choke by Zverev to win his first slam. Yeah, he's not mentally tough in big finals.

 

[Winner]

Peak Thiem is not going to be beaten by Federer, 37 years and 10 months, in the best of five sets on clay.
Come on!

Peak Thiem nearly got straight-setted by Zverev in the US Open Final.

I think Federer would have won. He's one of the smartest player on Tour, he would've figured a way to play Thiem, he nearly beat him in Madrid, he was fresh, he's used to playing GS finals.

And I think the age factor in terms of being able to play long 5-set-matches is overrated. I think, in 2019, Federer was able to play long 5-setters without much of a problem.

I'd say Federer in 4 vs Thiem.