Who would have won Serena's 23 slams

[serveandvolley_]

A part 2 to an old thread I saw.

My picks:
1999 US Open: Davenport
2002 French Open: Capriati or Venus
2002 Wimbledon: Venus
2002 US Open: Venus
2003 Australian Open: Venus
2003 Wimbledon: Venus
2005 Australian Open: Sharapova (gave Serena a lot of trouble in the SF, would have taken care of Davenport easily)
2007 Australian Open: Sharapova???
2008 US Open: Venus (a shame they had to meet in the QF)
2009 Australian Open: Kuznetsova
2009 Wimbledon: Venus
2010 Australian Open: Henin
2010 Wimbledon: Kvitova
2012 Wimbledon: Radwanska
2012 US Open: Azarenka
2013 French Open: Sharapova
2013 US Open: Azarenka
2014 US Open: Wozniacki
2015 Australian Open: Sharapova or Muguruza
2015 French Open: Safarova
2015 Wimbledon: Muguruza
2016 Wimbledon: Kerber
2017 Australian Open: Venus

Total slams would then have been (including those already won):
Venus - 14 or 15
Sharapova - 9
Henin - 8
Capriati - 4
Davenport - 4
Azarenka - 4
Kerber - 4
Muguruza - 3 or 4
Kvitova - 3
Kuznetsova - 3
Wozniacki - 2
Radwanska - 1
Safarova - 1

 

[ausfrewimuso]

Kvitova would probably have won 2012 Wimbledon as well

 

[serveandvolley_]

Kvitova would probably have won 2012 Wimbledon as well

That'd give her 4 grass titles. Post-2010 is more open.

 

[brystone]

1999 U.S Open: Davenport. Owned Hingis this period, was not losing to her. Also not losing to Venus.

2002 French Open: Capriati. I know she has never beaten Venus but they might played on clay and Venus at this event and especialy the final was meh. Capriati was right there and probably should have beaten Serena in the semis here.

2002 Wimbledon: Venus

2002 U.S Open: Venus

2003 Australian Open: Venus. Clijsters vs Venus is a close call but even if Kim got close she probably chokes.

2003 Wimbledon: Henin. Venus was injured and Serena visibly took it easy on her in the final. Clijsters of course choked badly in the semis. Normally I would never pick Henin over Venus on grass, but I do for sure here. Henin would not let her get away with just floating her serve in with that stomach pull. I dont see any of injured trouble serving Venus, choking Clijsters, slumping Davenport, or Capriati beating Henin if Serena is out of the way.

2005 Australian Open: Sharapova. Davenport choked/fell apart in the final, would have done it against Maria too. Maria didnt really choke/collapse in the semis, Serena took the match from her.

2007 Australian Open: Vlaidsova. Risky call since she is such a choking dog, but she would really have to choke badly to lose to a Maria who was serving horribly, and was in general not that impressive at this event. Even if she wasnt as bad as Serena made her look in the final. Still Nicole was overpowering Serena for a lot of their semi, just couldnt win the big points, and got deflated after not winning the 1st set. Should beat Maria if she holds it together mentally, a big if for her.

2008 US Open: Venus

2009 Australian Open: Kuznetsova

2010 Australian Open: Henin

2010 Wimbledon: Kvitova

2012 Wimbledon: Azarenka. ROTFL at OP picking Radwanska, Agnes is Azarenka's ultimate beetch, no way she beats her and it is probably a thumping. Yes I know she took Serena to 3 sets in the final but it doesnt matter.

2012 U.S Open: Azarenka

2013 French Open: Sharapova

2013 U.S Open: Azarenka

2014 U.S Open: Wozniacki

2015 Australian Open: Sharapova

2015 Wimbledon: Venus (if not her Azarenka, I dont think Muguruza beats either, and Sharapova definitely isnt winning a big event on grass with her serve)

2016 Wimbledon: Kerber

2017 Australian Open: Venus

So by my count you have Venus at 13 slams. Henin at 9 slams including her elusive Wimbledon in 2013. Azarenka at about 5 slams, and with 2 U.S Opens. Sharapova at 8 slams. They are the biggest beneficiaries.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

All 23 would have been won by various players who's names ended in OVA

 

[serveandvolley_]

1999 U.S Open: Davenport. Owned Hingis this period, was not losing to her. Also not losing to Venus.

2002 French Open: Capriati. I know she has never beaten Venus but they might played on clay and Venus at this event and especialy the final was meh. Capriati was right there and probably should have beaten Serena in the semis here.

2002 Wimbledon: Venus

2002 U.S Open: Venus

2003 Australian Open: Venus. Clijsters vs Venus is a close call but even if Kim got close she probably chokes.

2003 Wimbledon: Henin. Venus was injured and Serena visibly took it easy on her in the final. Clijsters of course choked badly in the semis. Normally I would never pick Henin over Venus on grass, but I do for sure here. Henin would not let her get away with just floating her serve in with that stomach pull. I dont see any of injured trouble serving Venus, choking Clijsters, slumping Davenport, or Capriati beating Henin if Serena is out of the way.

2005 Australian Open: Sharapova. Davenport choked/fell apart in the final, would have done it against Maria too. Maria didnt really choke/collapse in the semis, Serena took the match from her.

2007 Australian Open: Vlaidsova. Risky call since she is such a choking dog, but she would really have to choke badly to lose to a Maria who was serving horribly, and was in general not that impressive at this event. Even if she wasnt as bad as Serena made her look in the final. Still Nicole was overpowering Serena for a lot of their semi, just couldnt win the big points, and got deflated after not winning the 1st set. Should beat Maria if she holds it together mentally, a big if for her.

2008 US Open: Venus

2009 Australian Open: Kuznetsova

2010 Australian Open: Henin

2010 Wimbledon: Kvitova

2012 Wimbledon: Azarenka. ROTFL at OP picking Radwanska, Agnes is Azarenka's ultimate beetch, no way she beats her and it is probably a thumping. Yes I know she took Serena to 3 sets in the final but it doesnt matter.

2012 U.S Open: Azarenka

2013 French Open: Sharapova

2013 U.S Open: Azarenka

2014 U.S Open: Wozniacki

2015 Australian Open: Sharapova

2015 Wimbledon: Venus (if not her Azarenka, I dont think Muguruza beats either, and Sharapova definitely isnt winning a big event on grass with her serve)

2016 Wimbledon: Kerber

2017 Australian Open: Venus

So by my count you have Venus at 13 slams. Henin at 9 slams including her elusive Wimbledon in 2013. Azarenka at about 5 slams, and with 2 U.S Opens. Sharapova at 8 slams. They are the biggest beneficiaries.

Nice.

You missed 2009 Wimbledon and 2015 French Open though. 2015 French Open I'm not so sure about, 2009 Wimbledon Venus would have probably taken it.

2015 Wimbledon I don't think Venus would have had a chance, but you are right about Azarenka, I think she possibly could have taken that. Venus' form wasn't that great in Wimbledon but surprisingly she was playing remarkably well in the 2015 US Open. If she had beaten Serena in the QF here that title was hers.

 

[serveandvolley_]

All 23 would have been won by a player with the same surname

Fixed it for you.

 

[brystone]

Nice.

You missed 2009 Wimbledon and 2015 French Open though. 2015 French Open I'm not so sure about, 2009 Wimbledon Venus would have probably taken it.

2015 Wimbledon I don't think Venus would have had a chance, but you are right about Azarenka, I think she possibly could have taken that. Venus' form wasn't that great in Wimbledon but surprisingly she was playing remarkably well in the 2015 US Open. If she had beaten Serena in the QF here that title was hers.

Thanks.

Wimbledon 2009 Venus I think, even though Dementieva would have a chance. I pick Venus because of Elena's overall record vs her, and she somehow seems destined to never win a slam.

2015 French? No idea, maybe Safarova, Azarenka might have a chance but dont see her surviving an entire draw on clay, her worst surface. I would guess Safarova.

I agree Venus wins U.S Open 2015 with no Serena. So Venus would have gained 2002 Wimbledon, 2003 U.S Open, 2003 Australian, 2008 U.S Open, 2009 Wimbledon, 2015 U.S Open, 2017 Australian Open. So up to 14 slams, and maybe a 15th with French Open 2002. Even if she wins neither 2003 Wimbledon or 2015 Wimbledon.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Interesting question. I agree with most times that the player she beat in the final would've won the slam but these are just some of the ones where I don't think that's the case:

2013 French Open for example.
Serena knocked out Sharapova in straight sets in the final, however, her biggest challenge came in the QF against Kuznetsova.
Kuznetsova was the only player all tournament to win a set from Serena and actually led 2-0 in the final set, had Kuznetsova not played Serena there, I believe she would have gone on to win the tournament. She would have smoked Errani in the SF just like Serena did and I believe she would've beaten Maria in the final based on how Sveta was playing. So I give that one to Kuznetsova.

2015 French Open:
I just can't give this one to Safarova, yes she won a set in the final but it didn't really look like she'd win the slam. Serena was challenged immensely in the 3R against Azarenka who led 6-3 4-2. Had Vika not had to play that brutal match I think she would've gone on to beat Sloane, Errani, Bacsinszky and then Safarova in the final.

2010 Wimbledon:
Petra definitely would've gotten her first slam a year earlier. She played so well that tournament and was stopped by Serena, I firmly believe she would've beaten the choke queen Zvonareva in the final.

2008 US Open:
Safina would have beaten Jankovic in the final had Serena not been around. Safina had beaten Jankovic in straight sets two weeks earlier at the Beijing Olympics. In saying that, Venus lost a tight QF to Serena playing some brilliant tennis. It's hard to pick who would win the SF between Venus and Safina. Both players were in brilliant form with Dinara winning L.A, Montreal and silver in Beijing while Venus had won Wimbledon and Olympic gold. I can't choose this one but it's between Safina and Venus.

2009 Australian Open:
Kuznetsova again lost a tight one to Serena in the QF and was the only real one to challenge her all tournament (unless you count Azarenka in the 4R but in this imaginary world who's to say she woukd've have been injured against another player anyway). I believe Kuzy would've won this title easily beating Dementieva and Safina in the SF and Final.

 

[upchuck]

Order in terms of who she cost most:
Venus
Sharapova
Azarenka

Curiously, Serena didn't cost Henin as much as people may think. Her best years were when Serena was injured or in the midst of her mid-20s slump and even then she didn't capitalize as much as her talent warranted. 1-3 record in slam finals in 2006 stands out particularly bad and un-Henin like.

 

[serveandvolley_]

Thanks.

Wimbledon 2009 Venus I think, even though Dementieva would have a chance. I pick Venus because of Elena's overall record vs her, and she somehow seems destined to never win a slam.

2015 French? No idea, maybe Safarova, Azarenka might have a chance but dont see her surviving an entire draw on clay, her worst surface. I would guess Safarova.

I agree Venus wins U.S Open 2015 with no Serena. So Venus would have gained 2002 Wimbledon, 2003 U.S Open, 2003 Australian, 2008 U.S Open, 2009 Wimbledon, 2015 U.S Open, 2017 Australian Open. So up to 14 slams, and maybe a 15th with French Open 2002. Even if she wins neither 2003 Wimbledon or 2015 Wimbledon.

That's two times more slams she could have won.

Interesting question. I agree with most times that the player she beat in the final would've won the slam but these are just some of the ones where I don't think that's the case:

2013 French Open for example.
Serena knocked out Sharapova in straight sets in the final, however, her biggest challenge came in the QF against Kuznetsova.
Kuznetsova was the only player all tournament to win a set from Serena and actually led 2-0 in the final set, had Kuznetsova not played Serena there, I believe she would have gone on to win the tournament. She would have smoked Errani in the SF just like Serena did and I believe she would've beaten Maria in the final based on how Sveta was playing. So I give that one to Kuznetsova.

2015 French Open:
I just can't give this one to Safarova, yes she won a set in the final but it didn't really look like she'd win the slam. Serena was challenged immensely in the 3R against Azarenka who led 6-3 4-2. Had Vika not had to play that brutal match I think she would've gone on to beat Sloane, Errani, Bacsinszky and then Safarova in the final.

2010 Wimbledon:
Petra definitely would've gotten her first slam a year earlier. She played so well that tournament and was stopped by Serena, I firmly believe she would've beaten the choke queen Zvonareva in the final.

2008 US Open:
Safina would have beaten Jankovic in the final had Serena not been around. Safina had beaten Jankovic in straight sets two weeks earlier at the Beijing Olympics. In saying that, Venus lost a tight QF to Serena playing some brilliant tennis. It's hard to pick who would win the SF between Venus and Safina. Both players were in brilliant form with Dinara winning L.A, Montreal and silver in Beijing while Venus had won Wimbledon and Olympic gold. I can't choose this one but it's between Safina and Venus.

2009 Australian Open:
Kuznetsova again lost a tight one to Serena in the QF and was the only real one to challenge her all tournament (unless you count Azarenka in the 4R but in this imaginary world who's to say she woukd've have been injured against another player anyway). I believe Kuzy would've won this title easily beating Dementieva and Safina in the SF and Final.

Venus would have no trouble dealing with Safina at the US Open, they met a month after the US Open at Stuttgart and two months after at the WTA Championships in which Venus won at both.

What's crazy is Dinara is still 32 and played her last match aged 24

 

[brystone]

Yeah anyone thinking Safina was ever winning a slam is crazy. She was awful in all her slam finals and most of the semis too (especialy the ones she lost).