Who's on first?

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
I know that it takes 2 people to claim a court, but somebody told me otherwise, that he took a court by himself.

More importantly, today. I was playing at 30 minutes before sunset, on a court where the lights were broken. Knowing this, I tell the guys to be agile and move when the lighted courts are available. Soon it was, soon we moved. Two guys who just came got to the court first. They claim the court, saying they were first. I said we were playing for 20 minutes and were waiting for a lighted court. They say, "You can't change court!" I say, "What rule is that? That's not a rule". He said, "Well we're playing on this court." and began to do so. I was going to get into it. (Keep in mind, I weigh 120 lbs compared to average American 185 lbs.) Luckily (for us or for them, or both), one of my guy (of 3 total including myself) said, "Another lighted court is open". So we played on the adjacent court.

So who's on first? (I conceived this scenario decades ago in my head.) It is real-ized today.
 
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S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
They got to the court first so it's their court. You're not waiting for that court; you are playing on a different one.

it seems unfair to them for you to be able to play on one court while have a claim on the next lit court that opens up. I'd call that having your cake and eating it too.
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
You must wait on the court in order to be "waiting for the court". This simple rule takes away any interpretation as to who is waiting for a court and what order they have arrived.

What's the difference between waiting for "court 1" while playing on "court 5" and someone saying "oh, my friend is waiting for this court. he's at home, but he will be here shortly."?
 
They got to the court first so it's their court. You're not waiting for that court; you are playing on a different one.

it seems unfair to them for you to be able to play on one court while have a claim on the next lit court that opens up. I'd call that having your cake and eating it too.
at 120lbs maybe he needs to eat some of that cake. most of the guys I hit with would think he's something that fell out of their back pocket.
 

SGM1980

Rookie
If you were playing on one court, then you're not waiting for another.

But please - get into it next time and let us know how it goes. I mean, if you have enough energy in that little 120 lb frame. Perhaps you can beat him about the head with your extra racket?
 

Turbo-87

Legend
What does this mean? Were you going to get your Glock out of your car and murder them? Were you going to start a brawl on a tennis court?

Men. So much drama . . .
That's what I was wondering. I have never seen an episode of Cops or Live PD where they had to respond to a tennis court scuffle.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
What does this mean? Were you going to get your Glock out of your car and murder them? Were you going to start a brawl on a tennis court?

Men. So much drama . . .
everyone knows that, to LGQ7, it means he was gonna and intimidate his foes with his 2 racquet-chaka skillz.... all while kiai'ng his ELO rating, while live streaming to ttw.
a glock would be a more sensible choice, but LGQ7's martial arts training (ie. saturday afternon kung fu theatre), did not have guns.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
As I said, I conceived of different scenarios in my head decades ago. I did not happen to run into it today.

2 groups are waiting. Group A was there first before Group B. When a court is available, Group B ran up to the court and is there first. Does group B own the court because:

They got to the court first so it's their court.
Continuation of the logic.

I'm playing on a court that's not lighted 30 minutes before sunset, why am I NOT waiting for the lighted court?
 

SGM1980

Rookie
I'm playing on a court that's not lighted 30 minutes before sunset, why am I NOT waiting for the lighted court?
You're not waiting because you're playing.

The only exception I can think of is that only part of your group plays and the rest stands there (yes, STANDS there), waiting for the lighted court to open up and then claims it.
 

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
sorry I have to disagree with everyone. just because they were hitting on the non-lighted court doesn't mean they were not waiting for the lighted one.
 

Wesley J

Rookie
sorry I have to disagree with everyone. just because they were hitting on the non-lighted court doesn't mean they were not waiting for the lighted one.
If the courts are public, you can't claim a court and then go play on another one. That is why they are public...there is no sign up sheet or waiting list. What if someone was waiting in their car for the lighted court or across the street?
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
For using public courts in SF, you can only use or wait for one court. Once you're on that court, you can't change to another court unless no one else claims that court when it becomes available. Based on rules posted by SF Park and Rec. Even if you tell everyone else that is currently on the courts that you are waiting for court X, if you use court Y, you're out of luck since you are now on court Y.
 

darkhorse

Semi-Pro
You should've challenged them to a match, winner gets the lighted courts and loser walks away embarrassed. I'm sure you've conceived a way to play 4 on 4 tennis so you could make it work.
 

r2473

Talk Tennis Guru
Two guys who just came got to the court first. They claim the court, saying they were first. I said we were playing for 20 minutes and were waiting for a lighted court. They say, "You can't change court!" I say, "What rule is that? That's not a rule". He said, "Well we're playing on this court." and began to do so.I was going to get into it. (Keep in mind, I weigh 120 lbs compared to average American 185 lbs.)
Justice is the advantage of the stronger. They were stronger.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
We can consider other social situations for guidance.

Say I get to the movie theater first, and I take a sub-optimal seat because it the best one available. I keep scanning the theater in case a better seat opens up.

As I sit in my chosen seat, someone vacates a much better seat. As I walk to claim that seat, another patron who just arrived beats me to it and plops down.

I say, "That's my seat. I was sitting over there, but I figured a better seat would open up and since I was in the theater before you I get the better seat."

Other patron laughs directly in my face.

Sorry, you cannot claim a seat or a tennis court by occupying a nearby seat or court.
 

r2473

Talk Tennis Guru
That's the problem of life. I, myself, am not stronger. I and my 2 guys are stronger. It's a question of who's backing you up.
So even if the rule was on your side, if you can't enforce the rule, it does you no good. They still get the court.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
We can consider other social situations for guidance.

Say I get to the movie theater first, and I take a sub-optimal seat because it the best one available. I keep scanning the theater in case a better seat opens up.

As I sit in my chosen seat, someone vacates a much better seat. As I walk to claim that seat, another patron who just arrived beats me to it and plops down.

I say, "That's my seat. I was sitting over there, but I figured a better seat would open up and since I was in the theater before you I get the better seat."

Other patron laughs directly in my face.

Sorry, you cannot claim a seat or a tennis court by occupying a nearby seat or court.
Group A comes first. Group B comes second. When a court is available, Group B runs up to the court first, ala 50 yards dash. Who gets the court?
 

Wesley J

Rookie
Group A comes first. Group B comes second. When a court is available, Group B runs up to the court first, ala 50 yards dash. Who gets the court?
Are you waiting by the court? If not, then there isn't much you can do. First come, first served. If you were there first, you stand by/on your court so you can let everyone know that you are waiting for it.

This reminds me of a grocery store check out with a long line. Another line opens up and technically the next customer in line should be first but instead all of the people that just got in the back of the line race over, some getting out before you. Is it polite and respectful? No. But technically the only thing you can really do is leave your line sooner and go over (privilege of being there first).
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
As someone already mentioned to you, in a reservation-less system, you cannot occupy/use one space and expect to have preference to move into a better space should it become available over someone else who just happens to get to that space before you. Cindy's analogy about the movie theater is a perfect example.
Logic.

Group A arrives fist. Group B second. When a court is available, Group B runs to the court first. Therefore, Group B owns the court? Correct?
 

Wesley J

Rookie
Logic.

Group A arrives fist. Group B second. When a court is available, Group B runs to the court first. Therefore, Group B owns the court? Correct?
Yes. 100% correct if Group A is off screwing around somewhere. Gotta do your due diligence.
 

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
Are you waiting by the court? If not, then there isn't much you can do. First come, first served. If you were there first, you stand by/on your court so you can let everyone know that you are waiting for it.

This reminds me of a grocery store check out with a long line. Another line opens up and technically the next customer in line should be first but instead all of the people that just got in the back of the line race over, some getting out before you. Is it polite and respectful? No. But technically the only thing you can really do is leave your line sooner and go over (privilege of being there first).
Usually the person that opens the new line usually says "I'll take the next in line"
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
Usually the person that opens the new line usually says "I'll take the next in line"
Yes but that does not mean that person will be served next.
Depends on your definition of waiting. Is sitting and doing nothing waiting? Or I'm playing on an unlighted court 30 minutes before sunset, waiting for the lighted court.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/whos-on-first.616485/#post-12263822
Again..you may be waiting but your claim to the lighted court is no more valid than the group you lost out to. They just beat you out on the opportunity. Your being there prior does not entitle you to preference when the desired court comes open if you are not actively waiting for it. If anything, and by your own logic, I'd argue that preference would go to those that just showed up since you've already been playing for 30 minutes and they haven't played at all yet.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Group A comes first. Group B comes second. When a court is available, Group B runs up to the court first, ala 50 yards dash. Who gets the court?
Sadly, it is the Group with superior foot speed.

It is a shame it has come to that, but it's a jungle out there.
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
Logic.

Group A arrives fist. Group B second. When a court is available, Group B runs to the court first. Therefore, Group B owns the court? Correct?
Nice try.

Group A did arrive first, but they arrived at the wrong court.

Let me ask you this: If I came out of the bushes with a tennis racket and a sleeping bag, would you accept my claim to the court? Because, I live in the bushes next to the park, I'm always in the park before anyone else. Because I'm always in the park before anyone else, I can claim any court before anyone else.

Because people like you dont get it, we have to have labeled official "waiting areas" for courts here. There are signs that literally say "WAIT HERE FOR COURT 1", or a signs that say "COURT 1" adjacent to a sign that says "WAIT HERE" right next to it.

If you wait on the court, you are next in line for that court. If you wait off the court, you're next in line for the first available court that has no one waiting. The balance is that people who are waiting on the courts cannot claim courts they arnt on, but they do have priority for that court. The people waiting off the courts are essentially waiting for the first available court, but must yield to those waiting on the courts. The time limit for court usage does not start until someone waits on the court. So, if you wait off the court, people arnt going to watch the time.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
This reminds me of a grocery store check out with a long line. Another line opens up and technically the next customer in line should be first but instead all of the people that just got in the back of the line race over, some getting out before you. Is it polite and respectful? No. But technically the only thing you can really do is leave your line sooner and go over (privilege of being there first).
What many places do is the cashier will walk over to the next person in line and say "I can take you on register X", rather than just open the register and wait for people.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Logic.

Group A arrives fist. Group B second. When a court is available, Group B runs to the court first. Therefore, Group B owns the court? Correct?
This does not match your original description. More accurate would be:

Group A arrives and starts playing on court 1. Group B arrives later and waits for court 2. Who gets court 2 is not dependent on foot speed but rather who was waiting for court 2, which is Group B.

If there was a signup sheet, I'd agree with you. But hardly any courts have signup sheets anymore so you have to wait. If you choose to play on another court, no matter how inferior [unlit, cracked, broken net strap, holes in the net, etc] you've forfeited your claim on the good court.

if that's unacceptable, don't play on the bad court and wait for the good one.

The way restaurants do it is great: you put your name down and they give you a pager. When your table is ready, you get paged. You could be having drinks at another restaurant and you'll still get your table. But public tennis courts don't have maitre'ds.
 

samiam158

New User
Group A comes first. Group B comes second. When a court is available, Group B runs up to the court first, ala 50 yards dash. Who gets the court?
If both are waiting and both Know who was waiting first..common courtesy is the first one should get it. but...if neither group knew anyone was waiting.....who ever gets to the courts first is whose court it is.....but if one knew the other was waiting and one didn't know the other was waiting ........the one who is paying attention, therefore, getting there faster gets the court......or if neither is actually waiting but playing and watching other courts NO ONE get the court........or..........
 
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