Who's responsibility is it to call "double bounce"?

As titled.

I know what I am suppose to do when it comes to line calls but I'm confused when it comes to the situation where the ball might've bounced twice.

If it happened to my opponent and I SAW it, should I call it? What if I'm the one hitting the ball back and I'm truly NOT SURE if it's a double bounce, and especially the other guy is not sure either??

Who's call is it?
 
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The player who's hitting the ball is responsible to make that call, as well as all other calls when the ball is on his side of the court, such as lines, ball touching his clothing, etc. If you're hitting the ball, and not sure if it bounced twice, give the opponent the benefit of the doubt, and let him have the point.
 

HitItHarder

Semi-Pro
The player hitting the shot is responsible for calling the double bounce. An opponent on the other side of the net doesn't get to make that call.

Think of it the same way line calls are made. Your opponent may think they have a perfect view, but it isn't their call.
 
Thanks all (although the replies are kind of contradicting...),

What if the other guy's not sure either.. for example both of us were standing wondering if that was a double bounce? (I'll edit my OP to include this)
 
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Spokewench

Semi-Pro
If no one knows and thinks it might have bounced twice, I would either give the point to my opponent if I was the person hitting to keep the game moving; or replay the point.
 

blakesq

Hall of Fame
Where is the contradiction? If the guy who hit the potentially double bounced ball is unsure, he should let the opponent have the point. If the guy on the other side of the net from the potentially double bounce ball, IS UNSURE, he should keep his trap shut, since he is unsure. If he is sure it was a double bounce, he should ask his opponent if it was a double bounce, if opponent says no, then the opponent keeps the point, if the opponent says yes, or is unsure, then the opponent should give up the point.

If you stop the point in progress to question whether it was double bounce, and the opponent says it wasn't, you lose the point.


Thanks all (although your opinions are kind of contradicting...),

What if the other guy's not sure either.. for example both of us were standing wondering if that was a double bounce? (I'll edit my OP to include this)
 
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HitItHarder

Semi-Pro
Thanks all (although it's kind of contradicting...),

What if the other guy's not sure either.. for example both of us were standing wondering if that was a double bounce? (I'll edit my OP to include this)

I hope it wasn't contradicting, I meant the same thing as CrocodileRock.

If Player A hits the ball across the net to Player B and Player B is going to hit a return -- then Player B is the only one that can make a call as to whether the ball bounces twice before he hits it. It is up to Player B to concede the point if there is a double bounce before his return.

I also think you give your opponent the benefit of the doubt if you aren't sure and call the double bounce on yourself.
 
Okay I think I got it now. You're all basically saying... if I play a guy who I believe hits a double bounce, he can potentially deny it and keeps the point even if I tell him that I clearly sees it? So everytime I see the guy hits a double bounce (especially a very close one) I should still continue the play until he fess up? (this happened to me before.. that's why I post this question. That the other guy hits a double bounce, I continued play and he just keep playing as if nothing happened; only if I stop the play and ask if it's a double bounce THEN he'll fess up... which made me kind of pissed)

Kind of like line calls, even if I clearly sees the ball bounce inside the lines, if he chose to call it out, I can't do nothing about it but ask him if he's sure? But of course those call happened AFTER a point has ended... unlike DB...
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
If your opponent is not sure whether it was a double-bounce, he can ask you. If he asks, you should say what you saw if you saw anything. If he asks, he must accept your opinion whether he likes it or not.

I would say that if after all of that no one knows whether there was a double-bounce, then the opponent should give you the point. To me, it's like a ball bouncing on his side near the line and he is in bad position. If he can't call it out with 100% certainty because he didn't see it, the ball is good. JMHO.
 

Cruzer

Professional
As titled.

I know what I am suppose to do when it comes to line calls but I'm confused when it comes to the situation where the ball might've bounced twice.

If it happened to my opponent and I SAW it, should I call it? What if I'm the one hitting the ball back and I'm truly NOT SURE if it's a double bounce, and especially the other guy is not sure either??

Who's call is it?

It is pretty simple. You make all the calls on your side of the net and your opponent makes all the calls on their side of the net. Any double bounce calls or non-calls on your side of the net are your responsibility to make. Your opponent can question your call or non-call but you make the final decision.
 

Ripper014

Hall of Fame
I keep it simple... if I cannot call a ball out... it is IN... if I cannot say the ball bounced twice it didn't. I get accused of playing out balls alot... there are a lot of times I know the ball is probably out... but the ball obsures my view (between the ball and the line) so I always play it as in. If my opponent wants to call it out I am always willing to accept the call and play from that point forward (ie. second serve etc...). I will not however replay the point... either the ball is in or out.

The only time I will replay a point or offer the opponent a first serve is if play is interrupted... (ie. a balls get into play on our court).
 

Rogers777

New User
This actually depends on your tennis association and obviously whether you have a chair umpire or not. Let's assume there isn't a chair umpire.

Tennis Australia for example allows both players to call a double bounce (aka not-up). The US Tennis Association and Canada states only the player on whose side the infringement occurred can call the double bounce.


From the LTA "Where there is a dispute regarding lets, ‘not-ups’ or ‘foul shots’, the Referee, assistant Referee or Court Supervisor should ascertain what has happened and either
confirm the call or replay the point, as he/she deems appropriate
". This is similar to the ITF rules, which does not explicitly restrict calling a double bounce to only one player.
 

R1FF

Professional
Seems simple to me.

1. Hitter calls his own double bounce
2. If unsure, no reason he couldn’t defer to opponent’s vantage point
3. If both unsure, just play the point over

Ultimately tho, the hitter is in the driver seat it appears.
 

Rogers777

New User
Ultimately tho, the hitter is in the driver seat it appears.

The problem is the principle of not being allowed to have two opportunities of winning a point. For example, you cannot win a point by hitting it into the net or out and then afterwards claiming that your opponent hit a double bounce, or his original serve was out. This is a late call. You have to make any call at the time of infringement and stick to it.

If your opponent commits what you think is a double bounce, according to US Tennis rules, it would be dumb for you to call it, because if he doesn't agree with you, you automatically lose the point and most often in these situations you are in a position to hit a winner anyway. If you continue playing as if it wasn't a double bounce (because he didn't call it and you don't want to lose the point) and you then hit the ball out, you lose the point, even if your opponent subsequently states that it might have been a double bounce. Of course the 'hitter' might be unsure about the double bounce but continues playing because you continued playing and thus assume it was good.

Any player should be able to call let's, double bounces or foul shots.

MisterP "The only way you know for sure is if somebody else sees it or if you can tell by the spin of the ball. "

Well precisely. This is why an opponent is often in the best position to call a double bounce. If you are really convinced your opponent was wrong, the point should be replayed... especially if your opponent deliberately stopped the point.
 

R1FF

Professional
The problem is the principle of not being allowed to have two opportunities of winning a point. For example, you cannot win a point by hitting it into the net or out and then afterwards claiming that your opponent hit a double bounce, or his original serve was out. This is a late call. You have to make any call at the time of infringement and stick to it.

If your opponent commits what you think is a double bounce, according to US Tennis rules, it would be dumb for you to call it, because if he doesn't agree with you, you automatically lose the point and most often in these situations you are in a position to hit a winner anyway. If you continue playing as if it wasn't a double bounce (because he didn't call it and you don't want to lose the point) and you then hit the ball out, you lose the point, even if your opponent subsequently states that it might have been a double bounce. Of course the 'hitter' might be unsure about the double bounce but continues playing because you continued playing and thus assume it was good.

Any player should be able to call let's, double bounces or foul shots.

MisterP "The only way you know for sure is if somebody else sees it or if you can tell by the spin of the ball. "

Well precisely. This is why an opponent is often in the best position to call a double bounce. If you are really convinced your opponent was wrong, the point should be replayed... especially if your opponent deliberately stopped the point.

I don’t disagree with you.

But I’d error on the side of caution/following the rules. As you stated, the possibility of an easy putaway is almost certain after a near double bounce.

But I wont fault anyone for stopping the point if they are dead convinced it was a double. Most opponents would be ok with replaying the point at that moment. And it’s not like the returner has any alternative recourse...

1. putaway the volley
2. stop play, & likely get forced into agreeing to a replay
3. Or lose the point by rule

Which is why I said the hitter is in the driver seat. Might as well play as if. Takingvthe path of least resistance seems like the smart move here.
 

Rogers777

New User
Which is why I said the hitter is in the driver seat. Might as well play as if.

Perhaps you are right. There are however also certain situations where your opponent will barely scoop the ball over the net (e.g. off a drop shot) and now you have to in turn desperately try return a low ball at the net. Additionally, in any normal match one might easily have up 5-6 double bounces and playing every double bounce no matter how obvious might not be to your advantage, especially if your opponent in unsure and sees you actively continuing the point.

I have to admit that this is how I will instruct youngsters who are in this situation and have an easy winner, just in case their opponent's dispute a double bounce and they either have to replay the point, or even worse lose the point because their opponent's disagree.

With regards to replaying the point if both players don't agree, that would be ideal (and how it is ruled in many countries), but in the US and Canada tournament rules would not actually permit this. This is a problem, particularly with youngsters who very seldom will admit to hitting a ball on the second bounce unless their opponent calls them on it first.
 

R1FF

Professional
Perhaps you are right. There are however also certain situations where your opponent will barely scoop the ball over the net (e.g. off a drop shot) and now you have to in turn desperately try return a low ball at the net. Additionally, in any normal match one might easily have up 5-6 double bounces and playing every double bounce no matter how obvious might not be to your advantage, especially if your opponent in unsure and sees you actively continuing the point.

I have to admit that this is how I will instruct youngsters who are in this situation and have an easy winner, just in case their opponent's dispute a double bounce and they either have to replay the point, or even worse lose the point because their opponent's disagree.

With regards to replaying the point if both players don't agree, that would be ideal (and how it is ruled in many countries), but in the US and Canada tournament rules would not actually permit this. This is a problem, particularly with youngsters who very seldom will admit to hitting a ball on the second bounce unless their opponent calls them on it first.

Yeah. This is a problem with tennis in general. The rules are not objectively enforced. Inherently so because the competitors are tasked with making calls against themselves! I see this as a huge flaw in tennis until technology catches up and in/out type devices become the standard.

That said, i count maybe 2-4 bad cals per match in my experience. Sometimes they’re big points. Rarely is it malicious imo. But i cant blame the outcome of a match on just 4 points. There’s so many other opportunities & self inflicted wounds to let those 2-4 points get magnified.
 

WhiteOut

Semi-Pro
As titled.

I know what I am suppose to do when it comes to line calls but I'm confused when it comes to the situation where the ball might've bounced twice.

If it happened to my opponent and I SAW it, should I call it? What if I'm the one hitting the ball back and I'm truly NOT SURE if it's a double bounce, and especially the other guy is not sure either??

Who's call is it?

lot of posts but let's keep it simple:

player A = the person who is playing the ball (i.e. the person whose side the ball is on)
playr B = the person on the opposite side of the double-bounce.

The call is *only* to be made by A. If A *did not perceive* it to have double-bounced (and therefore played-on), then B may *not* stop and call a double bounce (it simply is not their call to make), *even if* B is 100% certain it was a double-bounce. B must continue play.

If A is not sure, just as in a line call, must stop play and give the point to B.

If A plays the ball, and B stops play because B thought it was a Double bounce, then A wins the point. (This is where people playing friendly matches usually just replay the point)...but if strictly adhering to the rule, replaying the point is an incorrect/invalid remedy.

Sooo....just like with line calls, if you are B, and A plays what you *think* is a double bounce, just keep playing and finish the point. it's all you are within the rules to do.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
That said, i count maybe 2-4 bad cals per match in my experience. Sometimes they’re big points. Rarely is it malicious imo. But i cant blame the outcome of a match on just 4 points. There’s so many other opportunities & self inflicted wounds to let those 2-4 points get magnified.

This. The single most important thing to remember when discussing calls of any sort.
 

chatt_town

Hall of Fame
As titled.

I know what I am suppose to do when it comes to line calls but I'm confused when it comes to the situation where the ball might've bounced twice.

If it happened to my opponent and I SAW it, should I call it? What if I'm the one hitting the ball back and I'm truly NOT SURE if it's a double bounce, and especially the other guy is not sure either??

Who's call is it?
Person hitting it or someone on that side of the net has to call it. You can't. My wife got nailed in the face years ago for not calling it when her partner clearly hit a ball back that had bounced twice..and rather than her calling it...she stood there and the guy from the other side came through with a jumping overhead. She didn't understand at the time it's their job to stop the point and not the other player's job to assume you are going to call it and besides...he was at the back of the court and came running up after her partner popped it up. Glad you mentioned that...I need to make sure she understands it's her job or your partner's job to call double bounce.
 

JSZ

Rookie
I keep it simple... if I cannot call a ball out... it is IN... if I cannot say the ball bounced twice it didn't ...
But perhaps your simple rule should be "if I cannot say I got it before the second bounce then it was not up". You are giving your opponent the benefit of the doubt on a line call but yourself the benefit on not up call.
 

Rogers777

New User
Just thought I'd share this as I got a reply from ITF headquarters on this. They can be contacted at the officiating email address at the ITF web site.

"In the matches played without chair umpires, both players can call “let”, “not up” and “touch” as long as they both agree on the fact."
If they cannot agree on this and the point was immediately stopped, the point is to be replayed. NB: Players should also make an effort to be absolutely sure when calling the not up.

This to me seems to be the most rational way to deal with such a dispute. Incidentally if you are playing in the USA or Canada and adhering to the USTA version of rules, then unfortunately this does not apply... just to complicate matters :confused:
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
Thanks all (although the replies are kind of contradicting...),

What if the other guy's not sure either.. for example both of us were standing wondering if that was a double bounce? (I'll edit my OP to include this)
If your opponent is unsure if it double bounced then he's required by The Code to concede the point.
 

Rogers777

New User
If your opponent is unsure if it double bounced then he's required by The Code to concede the point.

I'd like to point out that he is only required to do so by the Code if you agree to play by the Code and ignore ITF rules. As it stands, this particular interpretation is not endorsed around the world and actually contradicts the ruling of the ITF, which is endorsed by other countries.

I'd also point out how it actually doesn't work out too well. Principle #6 "Opponent gets benefit of doubt", actually implies that the person that makes the call has to give his opponent the benefit of doubt when making calls. As only the 'hitter' can call his own double bounce according to the Code, the hitter has to concede the point in any case where he isn't 100% sure his shot was legitimate. Thus even though he may well have reached the ball before the second bounce and the point should continue, he would be forced to concede the point if he wasn't 100% sure, even if his opponent saw nothing wrong with it and was happy to continue.

Now contradict this with the case of a line call where the point is only supposed to be stopped when a player is absolutely certain that it is out. In one instance thus the point should be stopped when it might has been a fault, in another only when we are certain it was a fault.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I'd like to point out that he is only required to do so by the Code if you agree to play by the Code and ignore ITF rules. As it stands, this particular interpretation is not endorsed around the world and actually contradicts the ruling of the ITF, which is endorsed by other countries.

I’m not sure the Code contradicts ITF rules. ITF rules just add a layer of nuance to the Code by allowing an opponent to call Not Up if he saw a double bounce. But if you generally follow the Code, the hitting player calls Not Up if he’s unsure he got to the ball, the opponent calls Not Up if he’s sure the ball bounced twice. If there’s disagreement, replay the point. All other situations, play on.
 

Rogers777

New User
But if you generally follow the Code, the hitting player calls Not Up if he’s unsure he got to the ball, the opponent calls Not Up if he’s sure the ball bounced twice. If there’s disagreement, replay the point. All other situations, play on.

I would agree that makes sense, but that is not supported in the Code. In the Code, the opponent has no right, even if he/she is 100% convinced, to call a not-up, double hit, or touch. Making such a call would constitute 'hindrance' which would see him/her lose the point automatically. There is no room for any disputes or replaying the point.

With regards to ITF rules, an opponent may do this and any disagreement would result in the point being replayed. See USTA rule below.

https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/officiating/2019 Friend at Court.pdf rule #19 re "Touches, hitting ball before it crosses net, invasion of opponent’s court, double hits, and double bounces" The ruling is "The opponent is not entitled to make these calls. The principle of giving the opponent the benefit of any doubt applies."

Here is the USTA's ruling on a questionable double hit: https://www.usta.com/en/home/improve/tennis-rules/national/when-is-it-a-double-hit.html

Note, as you may not call this on your opponent (because your opponent would have done so themselves if they had any doubt), any attempt to do so (i.e. effectively stopping the point) constitutes hindrance and automatically losing the point.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
You are right. I was referring more to the "giving your opponent the benefit of the doubt" part of the Code rather than the "who makes the call" part of the Code.
 

Rogers777

New User
You are right. I was referring more to the "giving your opponent the benefit of the doubt" part of the Code rather than the "who makes the call" part of the Code.

Sure. For me the absurdity of the Code's interpretation is simply putting the onus of making the call (in the case of a double bounce) squarely on the person with the least ability to do so. A person scrambling madly towards a ball 2" off the ground who at the last millisecond throws his/her racket at the ball in desperation... while denying the opponent who is likely in a stationary position with the best view in the house any say in the matter. Worse case I'm sure we can agree it would be best if the point was replayed, but not even that is possible :)
 

chatt_town

Hall of Fame
But perhaps your simple rule should be "if I cannot say I got it before the second bounce then it was not up". You are giving your opponent the benefit of the doubt on a line call but yourself the benefit on not up call.

I think I'm going to go with Ripper on this one. :) If I didn't see it, then I'm not going to give you a point. If I didn't see it bounce twice then It probably didn't. In 99 percent of the cases you can tell it bounce twice anyway.
 

chatt_town

Hall of Fame
Sure. For me the absurdity of the Code's interpretation is simply putting the onus of making the call (in the case of a double bounce) squarely on the person with the least ability to do so. A person scrambling madly towards a ball 2" off the ground who at the last millisecond throws his/her racket at the ball in desperation... while denying the opponent who is likely in a stationary position with the best view in the house any say in the matter. Worse case I'm sure we can agree it would be best if the point was replayed, but not even that is possible :)
That's true for singles....but any many doubles cases, your partner clearly can see it as well as the people on the other side.
 
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