I don't think that's true.
You see echoes of Agassi's game in Rafa and Novak to a degree. Not completely, but some.
Agassi was an aggressive baseliner that had excellent all-court skills. He was a mover, he was a grinder, he could attack and defend. He built an effective serve, but it was not dominant.
Most current American players have a big serve and a big forehand.... and that's it. Everything else is mediocre.
We train our players in theAgassiRoddick mold, and today that no longer works.
Fixed it for ya.
Money is probably a big factor. It's hard to make more money in sport as a woman than tennis. It really is one of the top sports for them. Men, on the other hand, if you don't reach the absolute pinnacle, it's pretty mediocre pay as far as professional athletes go.I've been trying hard to understand the reason why US tennis is so poorly represented in the men's top 100 while being so successfully represented in the women's top 100.
The only logical explanation I could find is financial:
- there is a ton of money in basketball, US football, baseball and ice hockey, so that's where the best athletes tend to go. That, and the fact that these are team sports where personal financial investment is low, i.e. travel expenses are generally covered by colleges. So if you take the net earning through an entire career, starting from junior, the upside is on average much higher than tennis, where most players struggle financially
- on the women side, there isn't nearly the same amount of money involved into team sports, be it basketball or soccer, as there is on the men's side. So relatively speaking, tennis is a more financially attractive option, especially now that the prize money involved has increased to match the men's side in pro tournament
Dies anybody else think this makes sense?
Curious there are no Wendy’s.Even players are named McDonald's nowadays
It is absurd to try and compare the variety of nations in Europe with the variety in US states.and US as well is many states, that differ quite a bit from one to another.
Curious there are no Wendy’s.
once again you have outdone yourself in terms of not reading what my post is about. it is obvious that i am speaking about the CURRENT (current means “right now”) state of American’s men’s tennis. This is before the obesity epidemic in the US that obviously has somewhat carried over to our male players. i know this will be difficult for you, but please FINISH reading my post before you go crazy with a counter-comment next time. thanks babe
It is absurd to try and compare the variety of nations in Europe with the variety in US states.
I've lived and worked all over the US and in numerous European countries. The difference in culture, traditions, education, social attitudes, political traditions etc between California and Louisiana are minuscule compared to the difference between, say, Greece and Sweden, or England and Albania.oh really?
do you perhaps want to tell me that US has same weather everywhere?
do you perhaps want to tell me that every city and village in the US it as same level of economic development?
how many time zones are there in the US?
how many laws and rules are there, that are applicable in 1 state, and not applicable in other states?
tell me please that I won't notice a difference if I somehow teleport myself from California straight to Louisiana.
Lol google swiss then bulgaria or moldova. You americans are very ignorant to say the least when it comes to countries haha.
It's very simple. The top athletes in America don't play tennis. They play basketball or football.
In Europe they play football. In the UK we have cricket, football and rugby to take the top player. OK we are dog s**t at producing top players but that has a lot to with useless grass courts.
This is my perspective on why US tennis stinks on the ATP level. It really boils down to why does US junior development stink.
1. So damn expensive to play and become a top junior. Lots of air travel crisscrossing across the country to play regional, then national tournaments (MI, CA, FL, AL, AZ, etc), lots of hotel stays, and not to mention ITF travel around the world. Meanwhile in EU tournaments/high level competition is in easy reach. Plus, why in the hell are all the USTA junior tournaments $85+ and national level $100s++ for tournament entry?? It doesnt go to the refs/officials b/c there are none.... Lines the pockets of the fat cats on top and not recycled back to help juniors become pros. And frankly why limit the draws to select few. Let anyone who wants to play play. You never know who the best are if there are these damn "USTA select few" golden tickets which are really based on playing tons of other tournaments to point chase (of course also lines the $$$$ pockets of the USTA with the outrageous tournament fees). Makes others feel like they are notworthy trash if they dont have the points but have the skill... This is why UTR is better in many ways. Its not about collecting "points" but about measuring skill.
2. USTA Player Development is trash. McEnroe had good intention but really just destroyed kids. Effectively the USTA stole "promising" kids from their coaches who brought them up to the level they were and then wrecked them with new coaches who completely changed their technique/play. Further once these kids got worse, the USTA quickly kicked them out the door. Next! WTF is that.
3. Academies. All these damn US academies are in fact tennis factories whose sole purpose is to produce mediocre level players. Not the best, not the worst, but "college" level b/c that sells. That doesnt cut it in the pros. Academies are in it to make money which means focus on the masses and not making the best.
4. US tennis is too individual. The European model is much better to develop top level. In the US its my peers are all my competition and we all are ranked on a "national rank list". It doesnt foster improving together. Why should I help my competition that I'm going to play in the next tournament?? It fosters a bad mentality to help each other. Meanwhile in Europe the kids are all on teams who all work together to improve b/c the goal is to beat other teams and not each other. Much better development model.
I could go on but I think the above are the key reasons. Yes, also the US is too focused on serve and forehand and could use more clay. Like others say. But frankly those are red herrings and not the real reason for juniors not developing into top pros. See Canada as a data point. All indoor, no clay. Yet top juniors who become top pros....
1. So damn expensive to play and become a top junior. Lots of air travel crisscrossing across the country to play regional, then national tournaments (MI, CA, FL, AL, AZ, etc), lots of hotel stays, and not to mention ITF travel around the world. Meanwhile in EU tournaments/high level competition is in easy reach. Plus, why in the hell are all the USTA junior tournaments $85+ and national level $100s++ for tournament entry?? It doesnt go to the refs/officials b/c there are none.... Lines the pockets of the fat cats on top and not recycled back to help juniors become pros. And frankly why limit the draws to select few. Let anyone who wants to play play. You never know who the best are if there are these damn "USTA select few" golden tickets which are really based on playing tons of other tournaments to point chase (of course also lines the $$$$ pockets of the USTA with the outrageous tournament fees). Makes others feel like they are notworthy trash if they dont have the points but have the skill... This is why UTR is better in many ways. Its not about collecting "points" but about measuring skill.
2. USTA Player Development is trash. McEnroe had good intention but really just destroyed kids. Effectively the USTA stole "promising" kids from their coaches who brought them up to the level they were and then wrecked them with new coaches who completely changed their technique/play. Further once these kids got worse, the USTA quickly kicked them out the door. Next! WTF is that.
And nearly all of them were won before 9/11 and Y2K. American men’s tennis has been all downhill in the last 20 ish years now.Marvelous thread... Why American Men have not Succeeded in Tennis....
These guys say Hi. 37 major titles between them all.
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Their main goal in life is not to earn money just to get rich , but also to enjoy and play the game .Most American do nothing if there is no money in it.I'm British, not American. If you're right explain why Spain and France have managed to produce quality players, when both have very wealthy world class football leagues; which are major draw for sporting talent?
This is my perspective on why US tennis stinks on the ATP level. It really boils down to why does US junior development stink.
1. So damn expensive to play and become a top junior. Lots of air travel crisscrossing across the country to play regional, then national tournaments (MI, CA, FL, AL, AZ, etc), lots of hotel stays, and not to mention ITF travel around the world. Meanwhile in EU tournaments/high level competition is in easy reach. Plus, why in the hell are all the USTA junior tournaments $85+ and national level $100s++ for tournament entry?? It doesnt go to the refs/officials b/c there are none.... Lines the pockets of the fat cats on top and not recycled back to help juniors become pros. And frankly why limit the draws to select few. Let anyone who wants to play play. You never know who the best are if there are these damn "USTA select few" golden tickets which are really based on playing tons of other tournaments to point chase (of course also lines the $$$$ pockets of the USTA with the outrageous tournament fees). Makes others feel like they are notworthy trash if they dont have the points but have the skill... This is why UTR is better in many ways. Its not about collecting "points" but about measuring skill.
2. USTA Player Development is trash. McEnroe had good intention but really just destroyed kids. Effectively the USTA stole "promising" kids from their coaches who brought them up to the level they were and then wrecked them with new coaches who completely changed their technique/play. Further once these kids got worse, the USTA quickly kicked them out the door. Next! WTF is that.
3. Academies. All these damn US academies are in fact tennis factories whose sole purpose is to produce mediocre level players. Not the best, not the worst, but "college" level b/c that sells. That doesnt cut it in the pros. Academies are in it to make money which means focus on the masses and not making the best.
4. US tennis is too individual. The European model is much better to develop top level. In the US its my peers are all my competition and we all are ranked on a "national rank list". It doesnt foster improving together. Why should I help my competition that I'm going to play in the next tournament?? It fosters a bad mentality to help each other. Meanwhile in Europe the kids are all on teams who all work together to improve b/c the goal is to beat other teams and not each other. Much better development model.
I could go on but I think the above are the key reasons. Yes, also the US is too focused on serve and forehand and could use more clay. Like others say. But frankly those are red herrings and not the real reason for juniors not developing into top pros. See Canada as a data point. All indoor, no clay. Yet top juniors who become top pros....
/thread.I have heard this excuse before and the problem with it is Americans are acting as if Europeans don't have other sporting options, when they do. Football is huge in Europe and sucks in a lot of potential tennis players. Yet Europe still manages to produce decent players.
My take on it is the American game is too dependent on power. European players are brought up on clay courts and are simply better from the back of the court than their American equivalents.
Funny how americans think they are never hard core enough.Plenty of “slow courts” down in Florida and indoors around the country. Endless hardcourts. Tons of facilities/weight rooms/academies/coaches....we have an amazing platform for talent in the usa. not every facility in europe is amazing as we all know. a majority of euro players come from less than desirable conditions. But then you have the Coco Gauffs and many other “americans” who go and train at morotoglou academy in france.
In the end it doesnt matter where in the world you practice tennis. americans dominated, now europeans dominate.
what is the special sauce that players need? the mental game is never mentioned anymore, passion, hunger, etc. Besides tactics.
maybe thats what the europeans bring to the table - instead of chasing sports that make the most money, they follow the passion for the game. a common USA excuse, our kids wont play tennis bc you cant make as much money. netflix isnt an excuse, video games, junk food....its all existed forever in diff forms. more fake excuses.
Also usa tennis receives plenty of athletes. comical to say we dont field “the best” athletes in this country for tennis. neither did golf and we still dominate there. baseball doesnt have the best athletes either. i could go on. you dont need a ton of amazing athletes to get back on top in the USA, you need ONE. i think thats the issue, we dont even have ONE who can crack the top 10 without being a giant with a massive serve.
Someone above joked that bollitieri retired....probably right. someone with intense passion for winning and a killer instinct might be missing from the usta staff.
someone with discipline who created a fighting mentality. hes not perfect, but hey it worked.
The issues are obvious, we make tons of excuses, hand everything out on a silver platter, claim its a rich mans sport, other sports are more interesting, blame our courts, and always focus on money....when a kid stops caring abt those excuses and meets a coach who agrees you’ll see the next sampras agassi courier mcenroe connors roddick etc.....
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It has to do with hunger and drive more than anything else..Just look at Roddick,he was potentially around 5 Grand Slam winner but how much did he win? Just one..His retired early,got burn out and what not..All have a good financial parachute and safety net below them so why will they ever take a plunge?
Bow compare these guys with Novak...A kid barely 10,each day running away from bomb strikes in his city and each day looking for a different empty swimming pool where he can practise..
Roddick is the typical American prototype of what went wrong with American Tennis..
I think it is more complicated than that. We do have great tennis athletes, just not complete... There is no strategy or plan how to competeEasy. America’s best athletes don’t play tennis, that’s why we don’t dominate. Every sport we take “seriously” we are by far the best in the world at. (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Swimming, etc) Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Mind you, Canada has been more than lucky at getting some prospects from children of immigrants from countries where tennis is popular. In Aliassime and Shapo's case their parents played tennis.
I honest to God hope so. He is so fun to watch, has a flair about him, but like every next gen, we will wait and see.I'm watching JJ Wolf's match right now. I've seen some college highlights of him on Youtube, but this is the first professional match of his I've seen. Interesting look:
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With that mullet, earrings, and necklace, he kinda' looks like he should be driving an old Camaro and antagonizing the kids in an upcoming season of Stranger Things.
Comes from an athletic family and has a thick body:
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The future of "Merican tennis?
Then learn English grammar and your problem is solved.
Your thread read:
Why American men have not succeeded in tennis.
So actually I did read "what your post is all about," and exposed it as the asinine non-grammatical nonsense it is. Is you wanted to restrict your thread to current players, then take a course in first grade English grammar and change your thread to:
"Why American men are not succeeding in tennis."
Present and past tense in English are generally covered by the first grade. Good luck!
You may be right but personally I don't think it's all just luck. Are there not immigrants arriving in the USA from countries that produce tall men?That is the main reason. Also, these immigrants were from countries which produce tall men. A short Raonic would have not achieved much.
I honest to God hope so. He is so fun to watch, has a flair about him, but like every next gen, we will wait and see.
Well, Wolf has had a good run so far in this US Open. Taking out the #29 seed in the first round and getting a routine straight set win over a Spanish jouneyman in the 2nd round today. Next up, it will likely be Medvedev... so we'll see where his real level is at.
The other day, one of the commentators (maybe Jan Michael Gambill) was saying that if you watched almost anyone in the top 100 practice, you'd see that they hit the ball just as well as Nadal or Federer. However, when it gets into the heat of the matches, the difference is primarily in the mind with the slightest of margins.
One of my favorite players of all time is Mats Wilander. What always struck me is that Wilander's power wasn't exceptional, nor was the fact that he could run or was fit - plenty of guys were just as fast, strong, and hit harder. But Wilander was able to win 7 Slams in singles (and Wimbledon in doubles), while more talented players never stepped up. What was the difference? Even at 17 years old, it seemed Wilander had a belief that he belonged with the best and he established himself as a top 10 player right away. And after he won 3 of 4 Slams and reached #1 in '88, his fall was just as fast after he lost motivation, showing how important the mental aspect of his game was.
Where does this confidence come from? One of the previous posters in this thread talked about how some European countries have had pockets of several elite players rise up at the same time, pushing each other into Hall of Fame careers. Certainly, Wilander had that experience, following in the footsteps of Borg, and being part of a juniors group in Sweden that included Stefan Edberg, Anders Jarryd, Joakim Nystrom, (all of whom won singles or doubles Slam titles) and several others. Wilander practiced and played countless matches against these guys as a kid and was the top of the group back then. When he was a success, it allowed the others to believe in their abilities as well. (I saw in an interview where Edberg was saying that he knew that he would be able to make it as a professional when he took a set off of Wilander in a tournament.) I think a similar thing happened in American tennis in the late 80s when Chang, Agassi, Sampras, and Courier came up. They all knew each other, and when Chang broke through, they all believed that they would win Slams.
Whether it's an American or not, I think the flood gates could open up for the Next Gen/Wonder Gen if one or two of them broke through and started winning Slam titles.
I remember seeing Flavio Cipolla practice with a top 20 player (can't actually remember who) maybe 10 years ago, and he was smoking him. His shots were unbelievable, and nothing got past him. Then I saw him in match play, where he folded like an overdone soufflé.I remember hearing that too. Reminds me of watching the qualifiers at a Masters 1000 tournament a few years back. I thought every player there had the game to succeed at the top levels of the pros. They could hit every shot, had no fundamental weakness, and were all extremely fit. The reason they lost though, was they would try low percentage shots(that weren't necessary to try) at critical times and wouldn't(naturally enough) make them.