Why are CA gas prices going through the roof?

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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The problem does not lie with the special blend. It rests with maintenance and inventories. It is the companies that are stiffing the consumer with their lie about the blend.

You are just running the fossil fuel industry lie and trying to get the special blend permanently removed while pretending that all this is just an interim measure. The industry wants the blend killed.

The evidence speaks for itself. Other states do not have this level and frequency price spikes. Those states also use regular blend.
The obvious solution is to mandate the CA refineries maintain the same inventory levels and stable pricing that they practice in other states.
In order to facilitate this, the refinery infrastructure must be upgraded and built up. In the interim period (1 year or 2 or whatever they require) the regular blend should be used.

Then and only then, the special blend can be introduced.
One need only look at the frequent crisis and shortages over the years to see that the cart has been placed well before the horse.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
We all know the answer to that in general and that is that it is supposed to be better for the environment.

This is why the industry hates it. Despite lauding its green credentials, it lobbies hard against all real green initiatives.

Who wants to keep the blend? Raul doesnt like it, the industry doesnt like it, what purpose does it serve?
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
If he lives there, he would know better than I.

He, like you, just needs to stop reading the hard right press which pushes the industry line against green initiatives.

Umm lol, wanna share their name? Raul lives in cali, which elected official should he speak with about this issue?
 
C

Chadalina

Guest
Tip #1 for people who dont know bart.

(1) Never ask him a direct question.
 

Big_Dangerous

Talk Tennis Guru
Forest fires warm the earth because fire is hot.

If we cut down every tree on earth we can prevent all future forest fires.

-Donall Rump

Puerto Rico is an island. Surrounded by water.

:laughing:

What a waste of a human life that guy is. He's a disgrace to the human race.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
I have read that refineries make more profit from the CA special blend. Yes, it is more expensive to produce. But refineries just pass on the price to the consumer.
You are saying refineries bottom line would be improved by producing just one blend for the entire country?

The problem is with the CA policy that have put the cart before the horse and imposed special blend before there was the proper refinery infrastructure to supply it.

Standardization tends to be deflationary. But lower prices could mean higher volumes. I do know that refinery operating margins are quite low. I do not know what they are in California as I haven't seen a report where they break things out.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Through all this, California oil refiners have kept their inventories low for many years. The rest of the continental U.S., for example, normally has about 24 days’ supply of gasoline on hand at any moment, while California averages between 10 days’ and 13 days’ supply.
“Because they keep inventories very low, prices rise immediately when anything happens because of concerns over possible shortages,” said Jamie Court, president of Consumer Watchdog. “If it’s illegal to gouge after a natural disaster, why not after refinery problems?”​
No one currently watches over any of this. Just after last spring’s gas price spike, Gov.Gavin Newsom asked for an analysis from the state Energy Commission, whose preliminary conclusion was that at least some “market manipulation” was involved. The full report was due out this month.​
What’s really needed is a state agency with authority to track oil company prices and profits and clamp down on them when needed. But so far, no state legislator has stepped up to propose anything like that.​

Inventories are a cost to companies. Your costs are higher if you have to maintain storage tanks and keep product in them. I don't see a rationale for requiring high inventory levels outside of a major disaster. That's why we have the SPR.

What is wrong with refiners making a profit when supplies are tight or with any other market issues? If they make too much, competition will move in to bring prices back down again.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Theoretically that should happen, but practically it doesn't. Markets are too sticky to slide up and down like well-greased pistons. So your argument won't fly.

What is wrong with refiners making a profit when supplies are tight or with any other market issues? If they make too much, competition will move in to bring prices back down again.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Inventories are a cost to companies. Your costs are higher if you have to maintain storage tanks and keep product in them. I don't see a rationale for requiring high inventory levels outside of a major disaster. That's why we have the SPR.

What is wrong with refiners making a profit when supplies are tight or with any other market issues? If they make too much, competition will move in to bring prices back down again.

I think article mentioned that CA refinery inventory levels are much lower than other states, thus contributing to these shortages. Why are refineries maintaining higher inventory levels in other states which do not experience this level of shortages and price spikes? Consumer watchdog study documented that record CA refinery profits coincided with the two month gas shortages.

I agree that the refineries are free to to maintain any inventory level they wish. And CA is also free not to impose the special blend unless there is assurance that it can be supplied without the huge price spikes and shortages twice a year. Other states with regular blend do not experience this level and frequency of price spikes. Particularly unacceptable when CA is already paying the highest gas taxes in the country. Two months every year of additional price spikes on top that hurt working families is simply not acceptable.

It is abundantly clear that the proper refinery infrastructure is not in place to properly supply CA with special blend. Common sense dictates that the infrastructure should be in place before mandating special blend.

Elitist extremists in CA have put the cart before the horse by demanding the special blend when the refinery infrastructure to supply it does not exist.

cart-horse-11.png
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
See, you support high prices and price spikes because lower average inventories are what cause them.

Not only are you flogging a dead horse, you quite clearly support higher gas prices for ordinary Americans.

I agree that the refineries are free to to maintain any inventory level they wish.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
I think article mentioned that CA refinery inventory levels are much lower than other states, thus contributing to these shortages. Why are refineries maintaining higher inventory levels in other states which do not experience this level of shortages and price spikes? Consumer watchdog study documented that record CA refinery profits coincided with the two month gas shortages.

I agree that the refineries are free to to maintain any inventory level they wish. And CA is also free not to impose the special blend unless there is assurance that it can be supplied without the huge price spikes and shortages twice a year. Other states with regular blend do not experience this level and frequency of price spikes. Particularly unacceptable when CA is already paying the highest gas taxes in the country. Two months every year of additional price spikes on top that hurt working families is simply not acceptable.

It is abundantly clear that the proper refinery infrastructure is not in place to properly supply CA with special blend. Common sense dictates that the infrastructure should be in place before mandating special blend.

Elitist extremists in CA have put the cart before the horse by demanding the special blend when the refinery infrastructure to supply it does not exist.

cart-horse-11.png

If you want more refinery infrastructure in California, provide more profits for refineries.

I don't see the problems as unacceptable. You just have more rationing by price.

People are obviously fine with it given that they vote to maintain the status quo.

The nice thing is that there are 49 other states to move to if you really want lower gasoline prices.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
If you want more refinery infrastructure in California, provide more profits for refineries.

I don't see the problems as unacceptable. You just have more rationing by price.

People are obviously fine with it given that they vote to maintain the status quo.

The nice thing is that there are 49 other states to move to if you really want lower gasoline prices.

The quicker immediate solution is for CA not to prematurely mandate the special blend.
There is no viable mass trans option in CA. Working families must get to work.
It is cruel to punish these poor working people for years while the refineries get their infrastructure ready.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
See, you support high prices and price spikes because lower average inventories are what cause them.

CA has no power to dictate to refineries what level of inventory to remain. CA does have the power not to mandate special blend which would avert these shortages in the first place. Other states do not experience them.
Again, you offer no solutions to working people struggling with high energy bills. People who are already paying the highest pricest in the country. They should just grin and bear it. Wait 2+ months every year for prices to come down.
Typical elitist cruel do-nothing socialist mindset.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
The quicker immediate solution is for CA not to prematurely mandate the special blend.
There is no viable mass trans option in CA. Working families must get to work.
It is cruel to punish these poor working people for years while the refineries get their infrastructure ready.

If you don't have viable mass transit, then businesses will have to pay more for their employees to commute to work. In Boston, a lot of companies do discounted commuter rail passes. They could do the same thing for gasoline, ride-share. Back in the 1980s, we had vanpools and carpools. The technology today should make this a lot easier.

Why would refineries increase infrastructure?
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
CA has no power to dictate to refineries what level of inventory to remain. CA does have the power not to mandate special blend which would avert these shortages in the first place. Other states do not experience them.
Again, you offer no solutions to working people struggling with high energy bills. People who are already paying the highest pricest in the country. They should just grin and bear it. Wait 2+ months every year for prices to come down.
Typical elitist cruel do-nothing socialist mindset.

You do have market-based solutions. If people truly can't afford to live in CA, they can just move. And it's clear that many are doing just that.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The companies keep short inventories in California so that they can keep running their political campaign against the special blend.

CA has no power to dictate to refineries what level of inventory to remain. CA does have the power not to mandate special blend which would avert these shortages in the first place. Other states do not experience them.
Again, you offer no solutions to working people struggling with high energy bills. People who are already paying the highest pricest in the country. They should just grin and bear it. Wait 2+ months every year for prices to come down.
Typical elitist cruel do-nothing socialist mindset.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This is another silly comment that shows an ignorance of real world economics.

Where people live is 'very sticky' for all sorts of self-evident reasons.

You can't simply shift states as easily as you can change your brand of toilet paper.

And no one is going to shift states because of a temporary price spike in gas prices!

You do have market-based solutions. If people truly can't afford to live in CA, they can just move. And it's clear that many are doing just that.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
The companies keep short inventories in California so that they can keep running their political campaign against the special blend.

That is pure speculation on your part. Where is the evidence for this? :rolleyes:
It is already documented that they earn record profits for this special blend and all the shortages it creates.
They have no reason to campaign against it.
 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Not only are you flogging a dead horse, you quite clearly support higher gas prices for ordinary Americans.

You make no sense. My proposal lowers the price. Your elitist policies are the policies that are screwing over working people.

You utterly fail to see that the special blend policy has been prematurely implemented and cannot be supplied by refineries without painful disruptive shortages at least twice a year.

Incredible that you do not see the flaws of this policy. You tell poor people to patiently tolerate 3 months of sky-high prices every year. People who are already paying far more than the rest of the country the other 9 months.

There is no dead horse here. You need to finally wake up and get a clue and acknowledge the misplaced cart.

:rolleyes:

cart-horse-11.png
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
You do have market-based solutions. If people truly can't afford to live in CA, they can just move. And it's clear that many are doing just that.

Many are moving out of CA.
You can thank the elitist policies by clueless environmental extremists such as Bartleby for that.
Maybe that is what she wants. Drive the poor out of CA.
:unsure:
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
If you keep talking about class conflict, people will begin to denounce you as a 'Marxist'.

Many are moving out of CA.
You can thank the elitist policies by clueless environmental extremists such as Bartleby for that.
Maybe that is what she wants. Drive the poor out of CA.
:unsure:
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It's an inventory problem, not a blend issue, allied with maintenance issues.

This is what objective news reports like Bloomberg are reporting about the spike.

The hard right press is, of course, moaning about the special blend as per gas industry propaganda.

If you think I'm wrong then provide objective news and specialist reports that prove you right.

You make no sense. My proposal lowers the price. Your elitist policies are the policies that are screwing over working people.

You utterly fail to see that the special blend policy has been prematurely implemented and cannot be supplied by refineries without painful disruptive shortages at least twice a year.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
If you keep talking about class conflict, people will begin to denounce you as a 'Marxist'.

I am completely independent. I like to reach out across the aisle to both conservatives and liberals to reach solutions for working people of CA .
:rolleyes:
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
It's an inventory problem, not a blend issue, allied with maintenance issues.

This is what objective news reports like Bloomberg are reporting about the spike.

Are you suggesting that CA mandate certain refinery inventory levels to avert these shortages?
Don't think government has the authority. It is a private sector decision.
The refineries have absolutely no incentive to maintain higher inventory because they make huge profits during these shortages.
Even if it was possible to force them to carry higher inventory they will just likely pass on the inventory carrying cost to the consumer, making little difference in gas prices.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Still no evidence, obviously, but what needs explaining is why average inventory levels are lower in California.

And by explanation, I mean explanation with evidence rather that the omnipresent excuse of 'special blend'.

Are you suggesting that CA mandate certain refinery inventory levels to avert these shortages?
Don't think government has the authority. It is a private sector decision.
The refineries have absolutely no incentive to maintain higher inventory because they make huge profits during these shortages.
Even if it was possible to force them to carry higher inventory they will just likely pass on the inventory carrying cost to the consumer, making little difference in gas prices.
 

kramer woodie

Professional
Now I don't know how many of you took the time to read, "The Lights GO OUT in Cali...and Maybe Not Just There" by what appears to be an automotive businessman in California? So I decided to collect more information, sourcing California newspapers and California Government web pages.
***I will break this post into 2 components: electrical power and California gas prices. First I will start with electrical power.

1.Topaz Solar Farms in San Luis Obispo County is a subsidiary of Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway investment group. PG&E because of California's 2026 mandated on amount of electric produced by Green Energy, entered into a contract with Topaz. Unfortunately, at the time of signing the contract, PG&E agreed to pay Topaz a fix price for its solar production at 5 times more, than the current market price.

You can not buy high and sell at a lower price and stay in business. However, PG&E was in essence forced into this contract, by the California Solar
Wind Mandate. You might ask, how could you be forced? If you don't have the funds to build the infrastructure, somebody has to come up with the money. Plus, that somebody will want to not only get a return of investment capital, but make a substantial profit. Now let us ask the question, "Why did the California PUC not allow PG&E to raise it charges for electric"? Easy the PUC is a government watchdog to protect the public, plus if I might say present the politicians in a good light that they can successfully seek reelection. PG&E is currently in bankruptcy court trying to get released from the Topaz contracts or as least be able to renegotiate them. In the meantime, the California Green Mandate to go Green by 2026 is not going away! You can expect much much higher electric costs in the future!!!!!!

2. Now gasoline prices! Let us start with California SB1 a voter approve bill to raise the state's gasoline tax. This approval was heavily pushed through in 2017 by the media and politicians, as a cure for road infrastructure repair. It was named for a reason the "Road and Accountability Act of 2017. The name itself indicates state government sincerity.

The following year 2018, that sincerity was further enhanced by California Prop #69. The 2018 decision to show the public we mean business. Therefore, Prop 69 was named a "Lockbox" for SB1 gas tax money!!! It get even better on September 20th, 2019, when Governor Newsome signs
an executive order raiding the "Lockbox" (for road and highway repair and expansion), redirecting gas tax money increases to fund Railway Projects. Also, cities will lose gas tax money if they don't meet housing goals under Newsome's plan.

Now, a little history. California gets (in 2018) 369,386 barrels of oil from: Saudi Arabia 37%...Ecuador 14.22%...Columbia 12.25%...Iraq 8.19%...
...Kuwait 6.19%...Brazil 4.85%...Mexico 4.13%, Canada 3.02%...Angola 2.93%...and other 7.22%. Numbers compiled and supplied by the California Energy Commission. 2018 total number of barrels, Alaska 72945...California 199658...foreign 369368. Ship and railways transportation
is more expensive than pipelines infrastructure, but environmentalist and government keep the pipeline out, plus also, keep new oil resources from being developed in California.

Now, back to gas tax. California Gas Tax is USD 0.473 cents per gallon...plus California under ground storage tax of USD 0.02 per gallon...plus
California sale tax per gallon (compiled by the Tax Foundation an independent/non-profit government watchdog) averaged tax amount of USD 0.09
cents per gallon (depended on individual county tax rates). This is a supposed grand total tax of USD 0.583 cents per gallon purchased.

I did find numbers that stated that the oxygenated super clean blend adds USD 0.67 cents to the price of blended gas in California making it more costly to produce. However, I could not verify through multiple sources.

Next we could discuss oil refineries. The majority in California were built a hundred (100) years ago. Through the California Government web site, I
found 14 are in current operation and 23 have been closed (shutdown). Plus, you have had an earthquake at one and a fire at another in the past few days.

Also, of interest is news about a gas mystery tax, which brings the California gas Tax up to USD 1.23 per gallon. Something new to figure out it seems if it is true. The people in California do however, pay between Federal (USD 0.184 cents per gallon) and State (USD 0.583 cents per gallon) a grand total of USD 0.767 cents on every gallon they purchase.

Shalom
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Next we could discuss oil refineries. The majority in California were built a hundred (100) years ago. Through the California Government web site, I
found 14 are in current operation and 23 have been closed (shutdown). Plus, you have had an earthquake at one and a fire at another in the past few days.

Also, of interest is news about a gas mystery tax, which brings the California gas Tax up to USD 1.23 per gallon. Something new to figure out it seems if it is true. The people in California do however, pay between Federal (USD 0.184 cents per gallon) and State (USD 0.583 cents per gallon) a grand total of USD 0.767 cents on every gallon they purchase.

Refineries are back to full operation. Experts say it will take 4 to 6 weeks for average CA prices to drift down from ~$4.30 to ~$3.50 where it should be sitting (while nationwide average is ~$2.60).
CA is already paying the highest gas taxes in the country. These frequent 2 week shortages (which reverberate for months) just add insult to injury.

October 14, 2019
For the ninth time in the last five years, gasoline prices spiked this fall in California, with per-gallon pump charges briefly leaping above $5.15 at many stations around the state.​


Still no evidence, obviously, but what needs explaining is why average inventory levels are lower in California.

And by explanation, I mean explanation with evidence rather that the omnipresent excuse of 'special blend'.


Again, the consumer watchdog studies have documented record refinery profits during special blend shortages. Working people get hit with these shortages twice a year.
Yet you continually concoct some conspiracy theory that the industry objects to the special blend that is generating huge profits for them.
Go ahead and explain why the refineries would object to their cash cow? :rolleyes:
Inventory levels are lower because they can be used to create these shortages. Another factor is CA is practically the only state using this special blend.
The reasonable conclusion to draw from all this is that using the regular blend in CA will result in the same steady supply and stable pricing the rest of the country experiences.
Yes, CA will still be paying ~$1.00 more than the nationwide average, because of state taxes to fund transportation infrastructure, but at least it will not be paying ~$2.00 more during these needless bi-annual shortages.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This means:

1. The tax measures are too new to have made any appreciable difference to road infrastructure, so we need a decade to judge that one.

2. The refineries are old and fragile and in need of capital investment to bring them up to contemporary standards, so a legacy of private sector neglect.

2. Now gasoline prices! Let us start with California SB1 a voter approve bill to raise the state's gasoline tax. This approval was heavily pushed through in 2017 by the media and politicians, as a cure for road infrastructure repair. It was named for a reason the "Road and Accountability Act of 2017. The name itself indicates state government sincerity.

The following year 2018, that sincerity was further enhanced by California Prop #69. The 2018 decision to show the public we mean business. Therefore, Prop 69 was named a "Lockbox" for SB1 gas tax money!!! It get even better on September 20th, 2019, when Governor Newsome signs
an executive order raiding the "Lockbox" (for road and highway repair and expansion), redirecting gas tax money increases to fund Railway Projects. Also, cities will lose gas tax money if they don't meet housing goals under Newsome's plan.

Now, a little history. California gets (in 2018) 369,386 barrels of oil from: Saudi Arabia 37%...Ecuador 14.22%...Columbia 12.25%...Iraq 8.19%...
...Kuwait 6.19%...Brazil 4.85%...Mexico 4.13%, Canada 3.02%...Angola 2.93%...and other 7.22%. Numbers compiled and supplied by the California Energy Commission. 2018 total number of barrels, Alaska 72945...California 199658...foreign 369368. Ship and railways transportation
is more expensive than pipelines infrastructure, but environmentalist and government keep the pipeline out, plus also, keep new oil resources from being developed in California.

Now, back to gas tax. California Gas Tax is USD 0.473 cents per gallon...plus California under ground storage tax of USD 0.02 per gallon...plus
California sale tax per gallon (compiled by the Tax Foundation an independent/non-profit government watchdog) averaged tax amount of USD 0.09
cents per gallon (depended on individual county tax rates). This is a supposed grand total tax of USD 0.583 cents per gallon purchased.

I did find numbers that stated that the oxygenated super clean blend adds USD 0.67 cents to the price of blended gas in California making it more costly to produce. However, I could not verify through multiple sources.

Next we could discuss oil refineries. The majority in California were built a hundred (100) years ago. Through the California Government web site, I
found 14 are in current operation and 23 have been closed (shutdown). Plus, you have had an earthquake at one and a fire at another in the past few days.

Also, of interest is news about a gas mystery tax, which brings the California gas Tax up to USD 1.23 per gallon. Something new to figure out it seems if it is true. The people in California do however, pay between Federal (USD 0.184 cents per gallon) and State (USD 0.583 cents per gallon) a grand total of USD 0.767 cents on every gallon they purchase.

Shalom
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
That is pure speculation on your part. Where is the evidence for this? :rolleyes:
It is already documented that they earn record profits for this special blend and all the shortages it creates.
They have no reason to campaign against it.

Where is this documentation?

Record profits is such a vague term that it has no meaning.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Refineries are back to full operation. Experts say it will take 4 to 6 weeks for average CA prices to drift down from ~$4.30 to ~$3.50 where it should be sitting (while nationwide average is ~$2.60).
CA is already paying the highest gas taxes in the country. These shortages just add insult to injury.




Again, the consumer watchdog studies have documented record refinery profits during special blend shortages. Working people get hit with these shortages twice a year.
Yet you continually concoct some conspiracy theory that the industry objects to the special blend that is generating huge profits for them.
Go ahead and explain why the refineries would object to their cash cow? :rolleyes:
Inventory levels are lower because they can be used to create these shortages. Another factor is CA is practically the only state using this special blend.
The reasonable conclusion to draw from all this is that using the regular blend in CA will result in the same steady supply and stable pricing the rest of the country experiences.
Yes, CA will still be paying ~$1.00 more than the nationwide average, because of state taxes to fund transportation infrastructure, but at least it will not be paying ~$2.00 more during these needless bi-annual shortages.

where is this documentation? I’m sure that I could find higher record profits in times past.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Where is this documentation?

Record profits is such a vague term that it has no meaning.

No government authority has yet proven collusion between the five big refiners – led by Chevron, Tesoro and Phillips 66 – which control 90 percent of California’s gasoline market, and also own or franchise 80 percent of gas stations. But for them all to raise prices hugely at the same moment suggested some sort of cooperation. They can’t all be running up precisely identical costs at the very same moment.​
For sure, these sudden price increases increase oil company revenues. Yearly profit statements are not yet in for the big refiners, and only two of the top five break out California results separately from the rest of their worldwide operations.​
Still, the last time anyone closely analyzed oil company profits, the Consumer Watchdog advocacy group in 2016 thoroughly documented that record profits for the refiners coincided with record-high pump prices throughout this state.
Some industry spokespeople have cited as one cause for the latest spike the brief drop in world gasoline supplies following the September drone and missile attack on Saudi Arabia’s largest refinery. Worldwide prices did jump sharply just after that, but quickly returned to near previous levels as the facility went back online sooner than expected.​
Through all this, California oil refiners have kept their inventories low for many years. The rest of the continental U.S., for example, normally has about 24 days’ supply of gasoline on hand at any moment, while California averages between 10 days’ and 13 days’ supply.​
“Because they keep inventories very low, prices rise immediately when anything happens because of concerns over possible shortages,” said Jamie Court, president of Consumer Watchdog. “If it’s illegal to gouge after a natural disaster, why not after refinery problems?”​
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
So you go from accusing me of a conspiracy theory to inventing one of your own in the space of three lines. Good job!

Yet you continually concoct some conspiracy theory that the industry objects to the special blend that is generating huge profits for them.
Go ahead and explain why the refineries would object to their cash cow? :rolleyes:
Inventory levels are lower because they can be used to create these shortages.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
No government authority has yet proven collusion between the five big refiners – led by Chevron, Tesoro and Phillips 66 – which control 90 percent of California’s gasoline market, and also own or franchise 80 percent of gas stations. But for them all to raise prices hugely at the same moment suggested some sort of cooperation. They can’t all be running up precisely identical costs at the very same moment.


For sure, these sudden price increases increase oil company revenues. Yearly profit statements are not yet in for the big refiners, and only two of the top five break out California results separately from the rest of their worldwide operations.


Still, the last time anyone closely analyzed oil company profits, the Consumer Watchdog advocacy group in 2016 thoroughly documented that record profits for the refiners coincided with record-high pump prices throughout this state.

Some industry spokespeople have cited as one cause for the latest spike the brief drop in world gasoline supplies following the September drone and missile attack on Saudi Arabia’s largest refinery. Worldwide prices did jump sharply just after that, but quickly returned to near previous levels as the facility went back online sooner than expected.

Through all this, California oil refiners have kept their inventories low for many years. The rest of the continental U.S., for example, normally has about 24 days’ supply of gasoline on hand at any moment, while California averages between 10 days’ and 13 days’ supply.

“Because they keep inventories very low, prices rise immediately when anything happens because of concerns over possible shortages,” said Jamie Court, president of Consumer Watchdog. “If it’s illegal to gouge after a natural disaster, why not after refinery problems?”

No government authority has yet proven collusion between the five big refiners – led by Chevron, Tesoro and Phillips 66 – which control 90 percent of California’s gasoline market, and also own or franchise 80 percent of gas stations. But for them all to raise prices hugely at the same moment suggested some sort of cooperation. They can’t all be running up precisely identical costs at the very same moment.​
For sure, these sudden price increases increase oil company revenues. Yearly profit statements are not yet in for the big refiners, and only two of the top five break out California results separately from the rest of their worldwide operations.​
Still, the last time anyone closely analyzed oil company profits, the Consumer Watchdog advocacy group in 2016 thoroughly documented that record profits for the refiners coincided with record-high pump prices throughout this state.
Some industry spokespeople have cited as one cause for the latest spike the brief drop in world gasoline supplies following the September drone and missile attack on Saudi Arabia’s largest refinery. Worldwide prices did jump sharply just after that, but quickly returned to near previous levels as the facility went back online sooner than expected.​
Through all this, California oil refiners have kept their inventories low for many years. The rest of the continental U.S., for example, normally has about 24 days’ supply of gasoline on hand at any moment, while California averages between 10 days’ and 13 days’ supply.​
“Because they keep inventories very low, prices rise immediately when anything happens because of concerns over possible shortages,” said Jamie Court, president of Consumer Watchdog. “If it’s illegal to gouge after a natural disaster, why not after refinery problems?”​
Thats just an op ed. There’s no proof there of anything.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Low inventories are causing price spike?. I find this plausible, but you sometimes see it as a conspiracy and at other times you blame everything on the blend.

Through all this, California oil refiners have kept their inventories low for many years. The rest of the continental U.S., for example, normally has about 24 days’ supply of gasoline on hand at any moment, while California averages between 10 days’ and 13 days’ supply.

“Because they keep inventories very low, prices rise immediately when anything happens because of concerns over possible shortages,” said Jamie Court, president of Consumer Watchdog. “If it’s illegal to gouge after a natural disaster, why not after refinery problems?”
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Low inventories are causing price spike?. I find this plausible, but you sometimes see it as a conspiracy and at other times you blame everything on the blend.


Unlike you, I don't wish to spend time speculating and dwelling on conspiracy theories on why inventory levels are low. You are the one claiming that the industry somehow objects to the blend being mandated despite it being a cash cow for them.

My theory is that these bi-annual shortages will disappear when the special blend mandate is removed. Just like it has for the rest of the country.
 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Thats just an op ed. There’s no proof there of anything.

Don't know wher the Consumer Watchdog study that the article cited is available.
I think you mentioned that it is very difficult to extract costs and profit from the refinery figure given by the CA Energy Commision. It is not difficult to believe that profiteering occurs during these shortages.
Can CA demand more transparency from the refineries? Or is that strictly a private business sector issue?

Consolidation of the refining industry into essentially three corporate hands – Chevron, Valero and Phillips 66 – has allowed the companies to keep this state’s reserve stocks lower than anywhere else in the lower 48 states.​
As far back as six years ago, Consumer Watchdog reported that the rest of the continental U.S. has about 24 days supply of gasoline on hand at any given time, while California averages between 10 days and 13 days.​
Shorter reserves mean that anytime there’s even a slight glitch, the refiners can claim an impending shortage and raise their prices. A refinery fire that’s put out quickly, with repairs made within a few days, can therefore cause price increases to reverberate for months.​
Said Consumer Watchdog, “It’s happened before and will happen again and again because the California refinery owners can make more money by making less gasoline.”​
How long do these things last? In 2015, a refinery blaze in a Torrance refinery sent prices upward. They never reverted to pre-fire levels, despite reconstruction and repairs.​
Now Newsom has ordered the Energy Commission to investigate possible “inappropriate industry practices.” That’s a very appropriate demand of that commission. The question: Will Newsom let his order be either ignored or procrastinated on, with inaction the result?​
Yes, whenever gas prices skyrocket, the Western States Petroleum Association invariably says it’s a one-off event and that “dynamics of supply and demand are responsible…”​
That last part is certainly true… but it leaves out the fact that the refiners control gasoline supply, while demand is very predictable, seasonal travel habits a major part of the picture.​
At UC Berkeley, they call the extra money collected during gasoline price surges an “unexplained surcharge.”​
But the explanation has been clear for years, even if state authorities are just beginning to realize it: This is the result of oil company manipulation and profiteering.​
One thing California plainly needs: a new law forcing disclosure of all California refiners’ profits, with complete transparency the goal. If the Legislature won’t create such a law, the people should, via a ballot initiative.

 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Don't know wher the Consumer Watchdog study that the article cited is available.
I think you mentioned that it is very difficult to extract costs and profit from the refinery figure given by the CA Energy Commision. It is not difficult to believe that profiteering occurs during these shortages.
Can CA demand more transparency from the refineries? Or is that strictly a private business sector issue?

Consolidation of the refining industry into essentially three corporate hands – Chevron, Valero and Phillips 66 – has allowed the companies to keep this state’s reserve stocks lower than anywhere else in the lower 48 states.​
As far back as six years ago, Consumer Watchdog reported that the rest of the continental U.S. has about 24 days supply of gasoline on hand at any given time, while California averages between 10 days and 13 days.​
Shorter reserves mean that anytime there’s even a slight glitch, the refiners can claim an impending shortage and raise their prices. A refinery fire that’s put out quickly, with repairs made within a few days, can therefore cause price increases to reverberate for months.​
Said Consumer Watchdog, “It’s happened before and will happen again and again because the California refinery owners can make more money by making less gasoline.”​
How long do these things last? In 2015, a refinery blaze in a Torrance refinery sent prices upward. They never reverted to pre-fire levels, despite reconstruction and repairs.​
Now Newsom has ordered the Energy Commission to investigate possible “inappropriate industry practices.” That’s a very appropriate demand of that commission. The question: Will Newsom let his order be either ignored or procrastinated on, with inaction the result?​
Yes, whenever gas prices skyrocket, the Western States Petroleum Association invariably says it’s a one-off event and that “dynamics of supply and demand are responsible…”​
That last part is certainly true… but it leaves out the fact that the refiners control gasoline supply, while demand is very predictable, seasonal travel habits a major part of the picture.​
At UC Berkeley, they call the extra money collected during gasoline price surges an “unexplained surcharge.”​
But the explanation has been clear for years, even if state authorities are just beginning to realize it: This is the result of oil company manipulation and profiteering.​
One thing California plainly needs: a new law forcing disclosure of all California refiners’ profits, with complete transparency the goal. If the Legislature won’t create such a law, the people should, via a ballot initiative.


Citing an anonymous study is basically garbage reporting. You shouldn’t rebroadcast unless you’ve seen the research paper and it has gone though peer review. Journalism is just so bad these days.

I think it really bad form to rely on innuendo and a few words from the random ether to make a point. Anyone can write anything these days.
 
No one in kali wants to ride public transportation unless they are too poor to drive and park--except for college professors who ride the trains on opening day and never again. As soon as a "dreamer" can afford to make a downpayment on a car they buy one--that's why people come to kali--they don't care about the environment, the constitution or any of that stuff--they're here for one thing and one thing only--THE MONEY! The free education and the free health care--thanks to gov moonbeam and gov nuisance--it's a one party state, dims only thanks to buying votes for welfare, sanctuary for criminals and ballot box stuffing.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
California voted freely for the new policies, so you got all that wrong.

No one in kali wants to ride public transportation unless they are too poor to drive and park--except for college professors who ride the trains on opening day and never again. As soon as a "dreamer" can afford to make a downpayment on a car they buy one--that's why people come to kali--they don't care about the environment, the constitution or any of that stuff--they're here for one thing and one thing only--THE MONEY! The free education and the free health care--thanks to gov moonbeam and gov nuisance--it's a one party state, dims only thanks to buying votes for welfare, sanctuary for criminals and ballot box stuffing.
 
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