Why are CA gas prices going through the roof?

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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
There are many articles about the housing crisis in California, but you don't read them because you have no interest in alleviating rising housing costs for the working man.

The topic at hand is gas prices and why there is a huge differential relative to other states. It has cost CA residents over $17 Billion.
$17 Billion to working families is a huge sum. Nothing to sneeze at. Not even for an elitist extremist.

In 2017, the state’s Petroleum Market Advisory Committee found that California has had “a continuous and significant unexplained differential compared to the rest of the country” since February 2015. That difference has cost Californians more than $17 billion, or about $1,700 for a family of four, said Severin Borenstein, faculty director at the Energy Institute at UC Berkeley’s business school.​
Gov. Gavin Newsom wants to know why California’s gasoline prices are higher than in the rest of the country, blaming potential “inappropriate industry practices” Tuesday rather than the state’s higher taxes and tougher environmental regulations.​
Newsom asked the California Energy Commission for an analysis of the state’s gas prices by May 15. California drivers were paying an average of $4.03 a gallon Tuesday, or $1.18 more than the national average, according to AAA.​
Higher taxes, along with a combination of tougher gas standards and environmental regulations, normally account for about 70 cents of that difference, said Gordon Schremp, a senior fuels specialist with the California Energy Commission. But the rest is a mystery.​

You offer no solutions, and instead of addressing the issue at hand, you deflect the issue to housing. Housing is a legitimate issue but not the topic being discussed.
Please try to keep your eye on the ball Madam Bartelby!
:rolleyes:

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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The topic at hand has been exhaustively analysed, but you brought up the argument that we should base public policy on making things affordable for the average worker.

Well, housing prices are way through the roof in California, and if you don't wish to be accused of hypocrisy then you need to address this massive social justice or drop any argument about fairness.

Which is it?

The topic at hand is gas prices and why there is a huge differential relative to other states. It has cost CA residents over $17 Billion.
$17 Billion to working families is a huge sum. Nothing to sneeze at. Not even for an elitist extremist.

In 2017, the state’s Petroleum Market Advisory Committee found that California has had “a continuous and significant unexplained differential compared to the rest of the country” since February 2015. That difference has cost Californians more than $17 billion, or about $1,700 for a family of four, said Severin Borenstein, faculty director at the Energy Institute at UC Berkeley’s business school.​
Gov. Gavin Newsom wants to know why California’s gasoline prices are higher than in the rest of the country, blaming potential “inappropriate industry practices” Tuesday rather than the state’s higher taxes and tougher environmental regulations.​
Newsom asked the California Energy Commission for an analysis of the state’s gas prices by May 15. California drivers were paying an average of $4.03 a gallon Tuesday, or $1.18 more than the national average, according to AAA.​
Higher taxes, along with a combination of tougher gas standards and environmental regulations, normally account for about 70 cents of that difference, said Gordon Schremp, a senior fuels specialist with the California Energy Commission. But the rest is a mystery.​

You offer no solutions, and instead of addressing the issue at hand, you deflect the issue to housing. Housing is a legitimate issue but not the topic being discussed.
Please try to keep your eye on the ball Madam Bartelby!



 
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Chadalina

Guest
The topic at hand has been exhaustively analysed, but you brought up the argument that we should base public policy on making things affordable for the average worker.

Well, housing prices are way through the roof in California, and if you don't wish to be accused of hypocrisy then you need to address this massive social justice or drop any argument about fairness.

Which is it?

I cant afford to live in beverly hills, which elected leader should i cali?

Im not sure you understand, but places like cali are where people want to live, not places they are entitled to.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.

The $20 Billion wasted on gas prices over the last 5 years sure could have built a hell of a lot of affordable housing.
But you just choose to gloss over that. Everyone is aware of the housing shortage.
But you offer no solutions to the housing shortage. What is your agenda?
:unsure:

 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You obviously don't care that housing is unaffordable while you prance around gas prices pretending to be the workers' best friend.

I cant afford to live in beverly hills, which elected leader should i cali?

Im not sure you understand, but places like cali are where people want to live, not places they are entitled to.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The money spent on a cleaner environment would never have gone into making housing affordable. Indeed, you want the savings kept by the consumer.

You obviously also don't care that housing is unaffordable while you prance around gas prices pretending to be the workers' best friend.

The $20 Billion wasted on gas prices over the last 5 years sure could have built a hell of a lot of affordable housing.
But you just choose to gloss over that. Everyone is aware of the housing shortage.
But you offer no solutions to the housing shortage. What is your agenda?
:unsure:

 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
The money spent on a cleaner environment would never have gone into making housing affordable. Indeed, you want the savings kept by the consumer.

You obviously also don't care that housing is unaffordable while you prance around gas prices pretending to be the workers' best friend.

That $20 Billion wasted on needlessly high gas prices could have been spent on affordable housing. Or it could have gone to CA families.
That $20 Billion went into somebody's pockets with an extremely negligible change in emissions.

Extremists like you fail to understand that fighting climate change should not come at the cost of destroying the economy and neglecting urgent needs such as affordable energy and housing. When gas prices rise, the historical data clearly shows that consumers cut back on vacations and other discretionary spending. The end result is economic recession.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You were not arguing for any dividend from lower gas prices being plowed back into real social justice for workers, and now you've been exposed.

That $20 Billion wasted on needlessly high gas prices could have been spent on affordable housing. Or it could have gone to CA families.
That $20 Billion went into somebody's pockets with an extremely negligible change in emissions.
Extremists like you fail to understand that fighting climate change should not come at the cost of destroying the economy and neglecting urgent needs such as affordable energy and housing.
When gas prices rise, data clearly shows that consumers cut back on vacations and other discretionary spending. The end result is economic recession.
 
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Chadalina

Guest
You obviously don't care that housing is unaffordable while you prance around gas prices pretending to be the workers' best friend.

Its a supply and demand market. Even if the gov goes sneaky and lowers accessed values, the market price will still be there. They call it the invisible hand (id use the term but may offend some ladies here).

How do you propose to make the cali market more affordable without paying them to charge less (rent control, section 8, subsidized)?

Gas prices speak for themselves, traffic is probably crap in la for a tanker truck, probably takes much longer etc. As long as the rate is justified (on paper) i have no issue.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Your version of economics was cutting edge ... in the eighteenth century. Come back when you wake up!

Its a supply and demand market. Even if the gov goes sneaky and lowers accessed values, the market price will still be there. They call it the invisible hand (id use the term but may offend some ladies here).

How do you propose to make the cali market more affordable without paying them to charge less (rent control, section 8, subsidized)?

Gas prices speak for themselves, traffic is probably crap in la for a tanker truck, probably takes much longer etc. As long as the rate is justified (on paper) i have no issue.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
If housing affordability in America now is lower than previously then this is not a question about interfering in the market as no one would argue that America has ever been socialist.

Care to be the first?
Do you know what a predicate is and understand its relationship to a subject?
 
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Chadalina

Guest
If housing affordability in America now is lower than previously then this is not a question about interfering in the market as no one would argue that America has ever been socialist.

Care to be the first?

Bold = Why you swapping to an "if" ?

Italic = america doesnt equal cali. Like i said, beach front costs more than a cabin in north dakota.

Purple = if no one would argue, why is it being presented? Was this an attempt at using a proper predicate?
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
You were not arguing for any dividend from lower gas prices being plowed back into real social justice for workers, and now you've been exposed.

You are the one raising the notion of plowing it back into for social justice.

I simply said that Californians are being overcharged at the pump; to the tune of $20 Billion over the last 5 years. $2000 for every family of four.
That hurts everybody. Obviously the poor feel it much more.

You seem to suggesting that the overcharging problem must be fixed only if we promise to plow that $20 Billion back into real social justice for workers.
Interesting mindset you have. :unsure:

But again, you are getting ahead of yourself. First the overcharging issue must be fixed. A wealthy person does not deserve to be cheated any more
than a poor person. Once we resolve the overcharging we can consider your social justice proposal.

Remember: High gas prices inevitably leads to recession that hurts everyone. Get that thru your head!
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Yet another inane expectoration.

Bold = Why you swapping to an "if" ?

Italic = america doesnt equal cali. Like i said, beach front costs more than a cabin in north dakota.

Purple = if no one would argue, why is it being presented? Was this an attempt at using a proper predicate?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Sorry! You are the one arguing that lowering gas prices was about social justice through lowering the cost to the consumer.

But apparently high housing costs are of no concern to you even though it is a matter of the most fundamental right of shelter.

You are the one raising the notion of plowing it back into for social justice.

I simply said that Californians are being overcharged at the pump; to the tune of $20 Billion over the last 5 years. $2000 for every family of four.
That hurts everybody. Obviously the poor feel it much more.

You seem to suggesting that the overcharging problem must be fixed only if we promise to plow that $20 Billion back into real social justice for workers.
Interesting mindset you have. :unsure:

But again, you are getting ahead of yourself. First the overcharging issue must be fixed. A wealthy person does not deserve to be cheated any more
than a poor person. Once we resolve the overcharging we can consider your social justice proposal.

Remember: High gas prices inevitably leads to recession that hurts everyone. Get that thru your head!
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Sorry! You are the one arguing that lowering gas prices was about social justice through lowering the cost to the consumer.

But apparently high housing costs are of no concern to you even though it is a matter of the most fundamental right of shelter.

Sorry Madam! Nobody deserves to be ripped off at the pump. Be they wealthy or poor. Obviously the poor feel it more but the overcharging issue must first be addressed on principle alone.

High gas prices correlate with U.S. economic recessions. It was a major factor in the 2008 recession along with the financial crisis.
Without affordable energy , there are no jobs and economic growth to spur housing development. They are all inextricably linked.

And are you suggesting that housing is a right? Is housing a fundamental right in your country?:unsure:

Housing is not a fundamental right in America. We only have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and housing.
 
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Chadalina

Guest
Housing is not a fundamental right in America. We only have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and housing.

Bold maybe the misinterpretation with many. Why socialism is gaining popularity. Economics arent there, they think of cartoons where no one poops or eats, 1000 fathoms under the sea
 

WOW! I wake up and Red-Bart has changed the topic from high gas prices to high housing prices--a sure admission of defeat--change the topic. I see why this forum is called "Odds & Ends". I've exhausted my arguments on high kali gas prices and will not beat a dead horse. I will now move on to practicing my serve. This thread has ended for me--it was fun and informative while it lasted.


Lies, damned lies, and statistics
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.
The phrase was popularized in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the British prime minister Benjamin Disraeli: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli's works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death. Several other people have been listed as originators of the quote, and it is often erroneously attributed to Twain himself.
[1]
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You made social justice the key plank of your critique of gas prices, but I've shown with the housing example that not one of you are interested in the concept.

You are all just simply running the populist line of invoking the 'people' when what you are really doing is just defending the interests of corporations and billionaires.

You're busted!
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
You made social justice the key plank of your critique of gas prices, but I've shown with the housing example that not one of you are interested in the concept.

You are all just simply running the populist line of invoking the 'people' when what you are really doing is just defending the interests of corporations and billionaires.

You're busted!.

Wow. Just. Wow,
Was not aware that fighting overcharging at the pump by corporations is contingent on ascribing to any particular view on social justice.
The oil industry loves Madam Bartelby!
Affordable energy is key to healthy economy and creates jobs and allows people to get to work and spur housing growth.
Paris homelessness is on the rise so socialism is not doing a very good job with their housing needs.
Perhaps capitalism does a far better job of lifting the homeless out of poverty.
:unsure:

 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
As I've said for a while now … you are a pot-hole loving mini-Trump … with no interest in social justice.

(FYI: Macron is not a socialist and France has a capitalist economy even if It does a better job than America on social justice issues).

And you label social justice 'socialism' in order to exorcise it from public discourse. So much for your gasoline-driven support for the workers, you gas-bagger!

Wow. Just. Wow,
Was not aware that fighting overcharging at the pump by corporations is contingent on ascribing to any particular view on social justice.
The oil industry loves Madam Bartelby!
Affordable energy is key to healthy economy and creates jobs and allows people to get to work and spur housing growth.
Paris homelessness is on the rise so socialism is not doing a very good job with their housing needs.
Perhaps capitalism does a far better job of lifting the homeless out of poverty.
:unsure:

 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
As I've said for a while now … you are a pot-hole loving mini-Trump … with no interest in social justice.

(FYI: Macron is not a socialist and France has a capitalist economy even if It does a better job than America on social justice issues).

And you label social justice 'socialism' in order to exorcise it from public discourse. So much for your gasoline-driven support for the workers, you gas-bagger!

:rolleyes:
It has already been explained to you many times. CA already collects the highest gas taxes in the country to fix potholes. Yet you blabber on about "pothole lovers".
The topic is the differential above and beyond that which are going into the pockets of the oil industry and driving people out of the state.
Those spikes are caused by the mandated special blend, not by mandated cars. President is only half-right in that regard.
But President recognizes the problem and promises CA that relief is on the way. Wonder what relief President has in mind?
:unsure:

 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Your beloved Trump said something about gas and you wept … because he's an even bigger gas bagger than you.

But at least we now have the confession that this thread always needed, and that is that it has only ever been about Trumpian populism.

:rolleyes:
It has already been explained to you many times. CA already collects the highest gas taxes in the country to fix potholes. Yet you blabber on about "pothole lovers".
The topic is the differential above and beyond that which are going into the pockets of the oil industry and driving people out of the state.
Those spikes are caused by the mandated special blend, not by mandated cars. President is only half-right in that regard.
But President recognizes the problem and promises CA that relief is on the way. Wonder what relief President has in mind?
:unsure:

 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Your beloved Trump said something about gas and you wept … because he's an even bigger gas bagger than you.

But at least we now have the confession that this thread always needed, and that is that it has only ever been about Trumpian populism.

Elitist extremist Madam Bartelby labels everyone that dares to call out gas overcharging as rightist.
FYI, I voted for Obama twice in 08 and 12 over McCain and Romney.
Now I am taking a close look at other candidates such as Yang in 2020.
FAIL!
 
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But at least we now have the confession that this thread always needed, and that is that it has only ever been about Trumpian populism.
That, and $1.99 will buy you a sleeve of cheap Costco Penns.

Life-long registered card-carrying Dem here--still got the registration slip in my wallet. Would have voted for Adlai Stevenson if I was old enough to. My Dem card got me out of jam once taking the train to Mazatlan from kalix-ico, it's not so easy to enter into Mehico as it is into the US-baby Anchor-of America. The conductor was trying the $20 shake-down saying my papers weren't in order, showed him my Dim card and he ushered me and by sticks in. Wound up playing tennis in PV with the head of the federales for the province and his doting young mistress--we let him win! Voted for Bernie in the last election and hot on Marrianne Williams in this one--she's gonn'a appoint a Cabinet Secretary of Peace--or is it Piece? Hot on Tulsi too, she's quite an ass-ette.
 
This thread is just too much FUN to leave!--it's like messageboard crack. My theory is Red-Bart is auditioning for a speechwriter gig with AOC (Pelosi Version 44D) now that Bernie is a goner, with that new haircut they gave him while knocked out for his stents--someone combed his hair for him for the first time since his wife BK'ed her college! I must say he looks very country-club exec chic now--maybe The President will give him a job--this Pres is very diverse after all--Kanye, et al. Feel-and-be-burned Bernie can be given an ambassadorship to Albania, Venezuela, or Iraq, geo-political economies he understands well--maybe he can be stationed at Benghazi, and run a Fast-and-Furious operation.
 

Mike Bulgakov

G.O.A.T.
This thread is just too much FUN to leave!--it's like messageboard crack. My theory is Red-Bart is auditioning for a speechwriter gig with AOC (Pelosi Version 44D) now that Bernie is a goner, with that new haircut they gave him while knocked out for his stents--someone combed his hair for him for the first time since his wife BK'ed her college! I must say he looks very country-club exec chic now--maybe The President will give him a job--this Pres is very diverse after all--Kanye, et al. Feel-and-be-burned Bernie can be given an ambassadorship to Albania, Venezuela, or Iraq, geo-political economies he understands well--maybe he can be stationed at Benghazi, and run a Fast-and-Furious operation.
Right now it is fashionable in certain circles to use California and Democrats as punching bags and blame both for all the ills in the world. I could compose attacks on Trump, the greed and corruption in his family, Barr, Pompeo and their cronies. I have been told first-hand stories of Trump's shocking behavior in meetings with a major adversary's leaders. The level of his ignorance, bizarre behavior, and willingness to sell out the United States has appalled career diplomats. This has been exasperated by him breaking the protocol of every recent President (including Reagan) and excluding all other government officials from meetings so he can follow his own agenda.The same is the case with Kushner.

I believe @tennis tom is pretty well off, may have worked on Wall Street, and is just having fun with his rants. Hopefully, he is not serious.
 
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Chadalina

Guest
Right now it is fashionable in certain circles to use California and Democrats as punching bags and blame both for all the ills in the world. I could compose attacks on Trump, the greed and corruption in his family, Barr, Pompeo and their cronies. I have been told first-hand stories of Trump's shocking behavior in meetings with a major adversary's leaders. The level of his ignorance, bizarre behavior, and willingness to sell out the United States has appalled career diplomats. This has been exasperated by him breaking the protocol of every recent President (including Reagan) and excluding all other government officials from meetings so he can follow his own agenda.The same is the case with Kushner.

I believe @tennis tom is pretty well off, may have worked on Wall Street, and is just having fun with his rants. Hopefully, he is not serious.

What do you mean "could"? You went on a rant lol
 
Right now it is fashionable in certain circles to use California and Democrats as punching bags and blame both for all the ills in the world. I could compose attacks on Trump, the greed and corruption in his family, Barr, Pompeo and their cronies. I have been told first-hand stories of Trump's shocking behavior in meetings with a major adversary's leaders. The level of his ignorance, bizarre behavior, and willingness to sell out the United States has appalled career diplomats. This has been exasperated by him breaking the protocol of every recent President (including Reagan) and excluding all other government officials from meetings so he can follow his own agenda.The same is the case with Kushner.

I believe @tennis tom is pretty well off, may have worked on Wall Street, and is just having fun with his rants. Hopefully, he is not serious.
"Mike Bulgakov, post: 13839696, member: 22869"]
Right now it is fashionable in certain circles to use California and Democrats as punching bags and blame both for all the ills in the world.
With good reason--it's true! For a long time other states would just copy and follow whatever kali did--it was the lazy and cheap way to do things, plagiarize whatever kali does--the chickens are coming home to roost--the kali drug and crime cancer has infected the left-coast and other states.
Mike Bulgakov, post: 13839696, member: 22869"]
I could compose attacks on Trump,

And you did as you said you would.

And, your suspicions are correct--I'm just kidding, I don't mean anything I say--I'm just following Red Barts example.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Bulgakov means that you alt right guys are on a rant about gas prices solely because you are composing attacks on the Democrats via California ...

and that it would be very easy for him to compose attacks on Trump in return presumably by starting another thread or some such device like posting here.
 
Bulgakov means that you alt right guys are on a rant about gas prices solely because you are composing attacks on the Democrats via California ...
Right, and I'm sure if your medicinal pot prices went up double you wouldn't care either--just due to collusion between the drug cartels and the Republicans.
 
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Chadalina

Guest
Bulgakov means that you alt right guys are on a rant about gas prices solely because you are composing attacks on the Democrats via California ...

and that it would be very easy for him to compose attacks on Trump in return presumably by starting another thread or some such device like posting here.

They are voting for increased taxes on gas. Facts arent attacks :(

Everything else is more expensive in LA, gas is probably adjusted. A whopper is probably like $8 there. Did you figure it out yet?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It's called democracy, which is a system the alt-right wants to abrogate.

They are voting for increased taxes on gas. Facts arent attacks :(

Everything else is more expensive in LA, gas is probably adjusted. A whopper is probably like $8 there. Did you figure it out yet?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Many Americans can't afford either medical care or medicine, so get that right first.

Right, and I'm sure if your medicinal pot prices went up double you wouldn't care either--just due to collusion between the drug cartels and the Republicans.
 
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Chadalina

Guest
It's called democracy, which is a system the alt-right wants to abrogate.

Democracy doesnt equal democratic party. Democrats run the state of california and they are the ones making these decisions. Its up to the people of california to make a difference, we just discuss it.

I do agree with raul about using a national system, would lower costs for everyone.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You don't accept Democratic Party rule in California not simply because you are alt-right, but because as alt-right you hate democracy as a system.

Democracy doesnt equal democratic party. Democrats run the state of california and they are the ones making these decisions. Its up to the people of california to make a difference, we just discuss it.

I do agree with raul about using a national system, would lower costs for everyone.
 
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Chadalina

Guest
You don't accept Democratic Party rule in California not simply because you are alt-right, but because as alt-right you hate democracy as a system.

I dont accept? Its a reality, id be delusional if i didnt. I dont agree with some of the stuff they do, but it has zero impact on my life.

If you look i have said nothing bad about anyone there, just talking about laws and policies.

Hate democracy? Your putting alot of words in my mouth.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
People voted for the tax regime and people support the special blend, and yet you think that the fossil fuel industry is right and the people are wrong.

If you side with the oligarchs, then you are against democracy.

You yourself wrote that 'its up to the people of california to make a difference' but its clear what they think already as they've already voted on these issues.

I dont accept? Its a reality, id be delusional if i didnt. I dont agree with some of the stuff they do, but it has zero impact on my life.

If you look i have said nothing bad about anyone there, just talking about laws and policies.

Hate democracy? Your putting alot of words in my mouth.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
They are voting for increased taxes on gas. Facts arent attacks :(

Everything else is more expensive in LA, gas is probably adjusted. A whopper is probably like $8 there. Did you figure it out yet?

Yes, CA has voted for higher gas taxes and we are happy to pay it. The roughly 50 cents CA gas taxes goes to fix potholes.

CA also mandates a special blend that the rest of the country does not use and which forces CA refineries to carry lower inventories than refineries in the rest of the country. These lower inventories results in frequent gas shortages and outrageous price spikes that last for months. It also creates an opportunity for oil industry profiteering but profiteering is difficult to prove since oil industry can claim they are forced to carry less inventory of special blend. It is very easy for the 5 oil companies
to stretch out the shortages and allow the prices to spike up and then drift down very slowly.

But there is no dispute that prices spike much higher than USA average. See the three month chart of L.A. versus USA average.

It is expected that L.A. gas prices should be about $0.70 cents higher than nationwide average: $0.50 for state taxes and about $0.20 for producing special blend.

Expected: L.A. Average should be about $0.70 higher than USA Average.
Actual: L.A. Average is about $1.70 higher than USA Average. With price spikes even higher than that.

CA consumers have been getting ripped off at the pump to the tune of $20 Billion.

The environmental elitist extremist Madam Bartelby says there is nothing to see here. She wants an investigation only if it is stipulated that the $20 Billion goes into a social justice fund. Otherwise she is perfectly content to do nothing about the huge overcharge that most hurts working families. :rolleyes:

I OTOH, believe that the illegal overcharge must first be investigated and remedied without any precondition.

agr7Lql.png


 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
They're mounting a defence of Trumpian populism by arguing unsuccessfully that the Democratic Party elite doesn't care about bread and butter politics.

I was just in cali they were a little high but not through the roof. Not sure what anyone is talking about.
 
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