J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Even the second tier guys have throughout history seemed to be incredibly mentally tough.
J
J
Why are so few players from Spain chokers?
- Thread starter J011yroger
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Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
A more boring explanation is that players are encouraged to develop a clay-oriented game, which makes the player seem mentally stronger in several ways:
- Low risk, reliable topspin groundstrokes.
- Defensive skills.
- Fitness.
- Being prepared for grinding.
Note that none of these are technically mental strength, but it's often perceived as such.
There's also a certain culture of glorification of the "gritty hard worker" over the "mercurial talent" in Spanish sports, which may have a psychological effect as well, but that has more to do with the public's expectations than the players themselves.
- Low risk, reliable topspin groundstrokes.
- Defensive skills.
- Fitness.
- Being prepared for grinding.
Note that none of these are technically mental strength, but it's often perceived as such.
There's also a certain culture of glorification of the "gritty hard worker" over the "mercurial talent" in Spanish sports, which may have a psychological effect as well, but that has more to do with the public's expectations than the players themselves.
Born_to_slice
Legend
They're tough where ever they come from, Catalonia or Castile. Nadal and Ferrer are Catalonian from birth, for example!
I remember Nadal, speaking French from Court Chartier, said French was easy to him, because of its similarity to Catalonian. Ferrer is a typical French name; Nadal is one also!
I remember Nadal, speaking French from Court Chartier, said French was easy to him, because of its similarity to Catalonian. Ferrer is a typical French name; Nadal is one also!
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
Fuentes made them tough as nails.
En masse.
En masse.
nadal is confident
I think it boils down to tennis system over there. They are taught to rally and outlast their opponents on clay. Once you have those solid topspin ground strokes employing semi to western grips with a big margin, mental toughness settles in naturally I think.
None of them seem to have huge serves. Moya had a decent one. And probably Almagro.
A bit unfair to the guy considering what he's gone through. Have you seen the match when he broke down crying and Delpo came over to console him. Don't be heartless. He's had his injuries. That breaks my heart every time I see that. It's hard to watch.
from Nole's reserve?
stringertom
Bionic Poster
So you wish to give Alchokegro blanket immunity all the way back to AO’13 QFs because of a late career injury? The collapse vs Ferrer included serving for the straight set win THREE times. It is a classic Heimlich move performed during his peak and is right up there with Vilas vs Orantes USO’75 SFs and worse than Nadal’s two folds from up two sets in slams vs Fognini at USO’16 and Tsitsipas at AO’21.
GhostOfNKDM
Hall of Fame
Some of it surely is in reaction to and defiance of neighboring French culture (and I don't mean just tennis)
Yugram
Legend
Is it worse than Federer’s fold to Anderson at the Slam where he’s the supposed GOAT, though?
GhostOfNKDM
Hall of Fame
He chokes too, if we are going to apply the same standards; it's just that his fist pumping persona has created an image of an invincible mentality.
5th set AO 2017 he was game up with AD if I remember correctly and dumped an easy shot into the net.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
To be complete, Hot Sauce came from down two sets and capped his win when he played one of the most clutch MPs in slam history when he beat Ferrer at USO’10:
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Were either fedr or Anderson from Spain? Stay on topic, dude!
Yes I would. Maybe he's always had injuries and he somehow was managing it. I never considered him to be a true Spanish player in the sense he wasn't an attrition specialist that Ferrer was. Granted he wasn't that gifted as an offensive player too. But I'm not cold hearted enough to watch that video and accuse him of not trying and label him a choker. That's just me though.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
F. Lopez has a good serve, but he does not play the typical Spanish game. Also: he is a choker.
Ah yes. I forgot about Lopez. Very different game performs well on grass though! Choker umm - I don't know.
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
I didn't want to bring the French into the whole thing, but yep. It's historically complicated.
junior74
Bionic Poster
No one beats Ferrer 17 times in a row, except Swisschoker!
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
Often throws away leads. Can be brilliant in the first set – then starts misfiring.
Slowtwitcher
Legend
Culture.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
Fedfan, your post reminded me, where parents of your beloved players worked...Fuentes made them tough as nails.
En masse.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
This post (quoted) also reminded me where Fed's parents worked.
That sounds just like me then - at a common people level
.AO 2021, Nadal vs Tsitsipas, lost from 2-0
AO 2016 Nadal vs Verdasco, lost from 2-1
USO 2015 Nadal vs Fognini, lost from 2-0
Acapulco 2019 vs NK, lost from 3 matchpoints
Buenos Aires 2016 vs Thiem, lost from 1 matchpoint
IW 2015 vs Raonic, lost from 3 matchpoints
Doha 2010 vs Davydenko, lost from 2 matchpoints
sure, there are some mythical players that are mental rocks
could you enlighten us?
Thriller
Hall of Fame
That post reminded me of where Federer spends his off season, in Dubai. By Federer's own admission in 10 years of his 'training camps' in Dubai he has been tested just once.
Federer: I’ve been tested once in Dubai in ten years
Roger Federer insisted not enough is being done to ensure tennis is drug-free after revealing he has been tested just once in Dubai during the 10 years he has had a second home there.The 34-year-old
www.thetimes.co.uk
One might wonder why Dubai is such a popular destination for athletes wishing to restock their reserves during the winter ....
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
Rafa and David Ferrer speak varieties of Catalan language (Mallorqui and Valencian, respectively), but they are not Catalonians.
Rafa was born and lives in Mallorca belonging to the autonomous community of the Balearic Islands and David Ferrer was born and lives in the autonomous community of Valencia. Both Mallorca and Valencia have 2 official languages: a local variety of Catalan and Spanish.
D
Deleted member 771911
Guest
Plenty of chokers in Spanish tennis.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Thriller
Hall of Fame
Well I wonder how 'salty' you would be if the shoe were on the other foot and Rafa was deliberately choosing to spend his winter training block in a location where it's almost guaranteed that there will be no drug testing ... 15 years and just 1 test, hmmm ....
On the subject of Verdasco, I like the fact that he has both recovered from 2 sets to love deficits and relinquished 2 sets to love leads at each of the 4 majors.
Australian Open:
2011 vs. Tipsarevic (2 sets to love down and won)
2012 vs. Tomic (2 sets to love up and lost)
2019 vs. Cilic (2 sets to love up and lost)
Roland Garros:
2005 vs. Soderling (2 sets to love up and lost)
2014 vs. Cuevas (2 sets to love down and won - as a Cuevas fan I wasn't happy with that)
Wimbledon:
2008 vs. Ancic (2 sets to love up and lost - what an epic)
2011 vs. Stepanek (2 sets to love down and won)
2013 vs. Murray (2 sets to love up and lost)
2019 vs. Edmund (2 sets to love down and won)
US Open:
2007 vs. Mathieu (2 sets to love down and won)
2010 vs. Ferrer (2 sets to love down and won - what a comeback and what an ending)
2019 vs. Chung (2 sets to love up and lost)
He has played in an insane number of 5 setters during his career.
In terms of chokes, his one against Soderling at Rome in 2011 was pretty big.
Australian Open:
2011 vs. Tipsarevic (2 sets to love down and won)
2012 vs. Tomic (2 sets to love up and lost)
2019 vs. Cilic (2 sets to love up and lost)
Roland Garros:
2005 vs. Soderling (2 sets to love up and lost)
2014 vs. Cuevas (2 sets to love down and won - as a Cuevas fan I wasn't happy with that)
Wimbledon:
2008 vs. Ancic (2 sets to love up and lost - what an epic)
2011 vs. Stepanek (2 sets to love down and won)
2013 vs. Murray (2 sets to love up and lost)
2019 vs. Edmund (2 sets to love down and won)
US Open:
2007 vs. Mathieu (2 sets to love down and won)
2010 vs. Ferrer (2 sets to love down and won - what a comeback and what an ending)
2019 vs. Chung (2 sets to love up and lost)
He has played in an insane number of 5 setters during his career.
In terms of chokes, his one against Soderling at Rome in 2011 was pretty big.
I couldn't care less
and I don't think that Big 3 are clean, I think they all take some substances that help them enhance their performance, Rafa included
but that is my opinion only, without any evidence
so as long as they are not caught, you can safely consider me a big mouth
you don't like intelligent tennis sir?
Don't confuse luck with intelligence.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Many of them are. Actually, I noticed that all of them except Nadal have a terrible record against Federer.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
That's not choking, that's just losing to a better player.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Ferrer has multiple wins over Nadal and Djokovic. (though he also choked a lot against them). He should have beaten Federer at least once in 17 matches. But even when he had chances he choked.
Tennis_Freak99
Legend
Tennis_Freak99
Legend
This guy himself chokes against Zverevs & Nishikoris of the world BUT he can make his opponent 'choke someone' too. Mythical!
Sport
G.O.A.T.
He was probably exhausted that 5th set, after the long 5 hours SF and having one day less to rest before the final.
Besides, he didn't have any match point, nor was he serving for the match, so I wouldn't call it a choke sensu stricto. A choke is when you are in a clear winning position. That 5th set was far from over, only 4 games had been played.
Slowtwitcher
Legend
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