Why are some players' residence different from their nationality?

[uncooling]

I was wondering why some players are listed as residents of a country different from their nationality? Here is the top 8 players with their nationality and residence.

1. Nadal (ESP): Spain
2. Djokovic (SRB): Monaco
3. Wawrinka (SUI): Switzerland
4. Federer (SUI): Switzerland
5. Ferrer (ESP): Spain
6. Berdych (CZE): Monaco
7. Del Potro (ARG): Argentina
8. Murray (GBR): England

what is your opinion of this fact?

 

[Phoenix1983]

Financial gain obviously.

Monaco is a tax haven.

 

[uncooling]

I was wondering why some players are listed as residents of a country different from their nationality? Here is the top 8 players with their nationality and residence.

1. Nadal (ESP): Spain
2. Djokovic (SRB): Monaco
3. Wawrinka (SUI): Switzerland
4. Federer (SUI): Switzerland
5. Ferrer (ESP): Spain
6. Berdych (CZE): Monaco
7. Del Potro (ARG): Argentina
8. Murray (GBR): England

what is your opinion of this fact?

Tax in Spain is higher than in Serbia.

Nadal earns more than Djokovic.

Nadal pays tax to Spain, Djokovic to Monaco (much lower tax)

What does this fact tell?

 

[uncooling]

Financial gain obviously.

Monaco is a tax haven.

so what does this tell about players (Djokovic, Berdych) when tax in Spain is much higher?

 

[uncooling]

so...? any other thoughts? Maybe Djokovic and Berdych just love Monaco so much they want to live there??

How come other top 8 players don't change residence when you can get so much tax reduction by doing so??

 

[dr325i]

Tax in Spain is higher than in Serbia.

Nadal earns more than Djokovic.

Nadal pays tax to Spain, Djokovic to Monaco (much lower tax)

What does this fact tell?

Corruption in Serbia is 50x the one in Spain.
Why would Novak put his taxes into the pockets of politicians?
Also, how do you know the tax in Serbia is lower than the one in Spain? Also, how do you know Novak makes (from all businesses) less than Nadal??

 

[Bukmeikara]

Corruption in Serbia is 50x the one in Spain.
Why would Novak put his taxes into the pockets of politicians?
Also, how do you know the tax in Serbia is lower than the one in Spain? Also, how do you know Novak makes (from all businesses) less than Nadal??

Well Nadal is probably even a bigger brand than Federer for tennis.

I am 100% guessing but I think that Djokovic trails a lot to Nadal in a mather of endorsment deals

 

[rocketassist]

It's called emigration.

People do it, all over the world.

 

[bullfan]

so...? any other thoughts? Maybe Djokovic and Berdych just love Monaco so much they want to live there??

How come other top 8 players don't change residence when you can get so much tax reduction by doing so??

They do, you didn't make a decent list of players. Tsonga and Monfils reside in Switzerland. Some females also choose either Monaco or Switzerland for tax purposes.

 

[bullfan]

Corruption in Serbia is 50x the one in Spain.
Why would Novak put his taxes into the pockets of politicians?
Also, how do you know the tax in Serbia is lower than the one in Spain? Also, how do you know Novak makes (from all businesses) less than Nadal??

Forbes magazine. Seriously dude. Fed is number 1 in popularity, and Nadal number 2. Has been that way for years.

 

[rossi46]

Tax in Spain is higher than in Serbia.

Nadal earns more than Djokovic.

Nadal pays tax to Spain, Djokovic to Monaco (much lower tax)

What does this fact tell?

It tells you that Nadal is an idiot, Djokovic is obviously smarter.

 

[Murray1337]

It tells you that Nadal is an idiot, Djokovic is obviously smarter.

 

[bullfan]

It tells you that Nadal is an idiot, Djokovic is obviously smarter.

Wrong. Most players get the most money from their home country. Murray was said to lose major $$$ by leaving England as residence. Think about the relative populations of country of birth vs $$ based on Birth Country endorsements. Additionally, some folks like where they are from and want to stay.

For example, population wise.
Player. Population. Country. Low Taxes
Novak. 7.2 Million. Serbia. No
Nadal. 42 Million. Spain. No
Fed/Wawa. 8.0 Million. Switzerland. Yes
Murray. 53 Million. England. No
Tsonga. 66 Million. France. No

Bottom line, there's a number of factors.

But, this is a rehash of a previous thread.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=422286

 

[chjtennis]

so...? any other thoughts? Maybe Djokovic and Berdych just love Monaco so much they want to live there??

How come other top 8 players don't change residence when you can get so much tax reduction by doing so??

It's nothing new. Back in the 80s and 90s, a lot of players' residence was in Monaco, Switzerland or Bermuda. If you think about their prize money, you can understand why. They will not win that much throughout their lives and they want to save more for the future. It's not like tax evasion, so why not?

 

[chjtennis]

BTW, this kind of practice is not just limited to tenis. A lot of European sport stars take residence in Monaco or Switzerland for tax reasons. Take Michael Schumacher, for example.

 

[PMChambers]

Sorry, but I don't think anyone here understands the tax laws of these countries and how the players get paid. Do any of you even know if the "player" gets paid or his "business" gets paid? Where does the money go, through his home countries banking system or straight into an off shore institution. Are they paying local taxes when out side the country, are foreign earning accountable.
For example Nadal wins $2mill, goes into his company holdings based in Switzerland, pays himself $300k, states $300k on his Spanish residential tax sheet minus $200k for coaching team and $50k for expenses and pays local tax on $50k.
Some countries don't apply local taxes on foreign earnings if you do reside there long enough, hence, miners I know don't return to Australia every roster, dodging both Aust & Foreign tax.
England has Tax havens like the Isle of Man. Ireland is now considered a business tax haven with Google & Apple running their EU profits through it.

So to state these countries are used as a tax haven without knowing how the players structure their "businesses" is guessing.

Monaco is nice, maybe they like the ability to walk the streets without being harassed by home town fans. It might suit they're life style. Assumption of tax is ignorant.

 

[uncooling]

Corruption in Serbia is 50x the one in Spain.
Why would Novak put his taxes into the pockets of politicians?
Also, how do you know the tax in Serbia is lower than the one in Spain? Also, how do you know Novak makes (from all businesses) less than Nadal??

Is that a fact that corruption in Serbia is 50x the one in Spain?

Also, the fact that Serbia has corruption can't be used as an excuse. If he can't stand to watch corruption, why not change his nationality then?

It's obvious that he's just trying to avoid high tax regardless of whether Serbia has corruption or not.

 

[Wynter]

It tells you that Nadal is an idiot, Djokovic is obviously smarter.

That, even Tomic has his funds in Monaco.

Considering how short a career is, you should squirrel away as much as you can, look what happened to Borg.

 

[monfed]

Better quality of life in Monaco compared to Serbia maybe? It's like fantasy island for the rich n mighty. So why not? I think these guys are too rich to worry about tax so I think that's secondary.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

I don't even understand why they attach nationalities/flags to ATP players on TV broadcasts. Unless it's the Olympics or Davis Cup.

 

[bullfan]

Sorry, but I don't think anyone here understands the tax laws of these countries and how the players get paid. Do any of you even know if the "player" gets paid or his "business" gets paid? Where does the money go, through his home countries banking system or straight into an off shore institution. Are they paying local taxes when out side the country, are foreign earning accountable.
For example Nadal wins $2mill, goes into his company holdings based in Switzerland, pays himself $300k, states $300k on his Spanish residential tax sheet minus $200k for coaching team and $50k for expenses and pays local tax on $50k.
Some countries don't apply local taxes on foreign earnings if you do reside there long enough, hence, miners I know don't return to Australia every roster, dodging both Aust & Foreign tax.
England has Tax havens like the Isle of Man. Ireland is now considered a business tax haven with Google & Apple running their EU profits through it.

So to state these countries are used as a tax haven without knowing how the players structure their "businesses" is guessing.

Monaco is nice, maybe they like the ability to walk the streets without being harassed by home town fans. It might suit they're life style. Assumption of tax is ignorant.

Funny, how you equate Nadal to Switzerland in this scenario!

 

[PMChambers]

Funny, how you equate Nadal to Switzerland in this scenario!

I could have used other tax havens like Liechtenstein, Caribbean, Seychelles etc. But everyone knows Switzerland is a tax haven if you're rich enough to comply to the entry costs. I don't know enough about tax havens to indicate other countries. Generally countries with small GDP will give nice rates just to have the money in the system, but some are too unstable to risk. If you have enough money you can always set up you're own tax haven in an existing country, IE: Vatican. Even Monaco is really just a crud rocky piece of land in France that managed to survive imperial growth.

We have no idea how they are moving their money and how they comprise their private vs company structures. I did notice Hewitt left Australia for Caribbean recently for tax avoidance which would likely be due taxes on savings outside of tennis making his major income, either that or his favorite sports team are losing and he can't handle it.

 

[bullfan]

I could have used other tax havens like Liechtenstein, Caribbean, Seychelles etc. But everyone knows Switzerland is a tax haven if you're rich enough to comply to the entry costs. I don't know enough about tax havens to indicate other countries. Generally countries with small GDP will give nice rates just to have the money in the system, but some are too unstable to risk. If you have enough money you can always set up you're own tax haven in an existing country, IE: Vatican. Even Monaco is really just a crud rocky piece of land in France that managed to survive imperial growth.

We have no idea how they are moving their money and how they comprise their private vs company structures. I did notice Hewitt left Australia for Caribbean recently for tax avoidance which would likely be due taxes on savings outside of tennis making his major income, either that or his favorite sports team are losing and he can't handle it.

What's funny, is that your post s assuming Nadal is a Swiss resident. Yet, Nadal continues to live in his hometown, while plenty reside is the tax havens.

 

[PMChambers]

What's funny, is that your post s assuming Nadal is a Swiss resident. Yet, Nadal continues to live in his hometown, while plenty reside is the tax havens.

Not at all, I am saying Nadal money may resident in Switzerland. You don't need to be local to have a business address in the tax haven. I'm at no point insinuating he is Swiss, rather his moneys maybe channel through Switzerland, in the same why, Apple, Google and Microsoft mayor owners/board are not Irish or Liechtenstein but most of their European earnings goes through these countries for tax avoidance.

Your'e mixing up private residence with company and financial location, they can be completely different. Djokovic's buisness money might not even make it to to Monaco, we don't know. I doubt he has his investments funded through Monaco as Monaco is a place to "hide" savings not make money. You make money putting you're name to cheap products and selling them for exorbitant amount. If you make monies in a country you generally have to play local taxes regardless, but can off set them against lower tax companies many ways such as claiming "reduced" profit.

My point is we have no idea what their business setup is and how much private money/income they pay themselves so this concept of tax havens is purely ignorant chatter.

 

[monfed]

I don't even understand why they attach nationalities/flags to ATP players on TV broadcasts. Unless it's the Olympics or Davis Cup.

I guess it gives some fans a reason to cheer. Like I cheer for Sania Mirza just cause she's Indian. But if she played like Somdev, I probably wouldn't. :lol:

 

[PaulFCB]

I don't even understand why they attach nationalities/flags to ATP players on TV broadcasts. Unless it's the Olympics or Davis Cup.

LOL wut? What does residing in a tax haven have to do with anything, you support players only if they pay taxes to your authorities, why would I pay my taxes to Romania if I could pay less to Monte-Carlo or Bern? Apart from the corruption at insane cosmic levels, the big politicians are probably the heads of prostitution, drug placement and other dirty stuff, not to mention they keep raising taxes saying that "others do too".

 

[uncooling]

Matthew 6:21 - For where your treasure (money) is, there your heart will be also.


Djokovic tries to act like he loves his country, but in reality, Nadal loves his country more.

No wonder why Gulbis, Janowicz said that djokovic acts and nad is genuine.

Do we have consensus here?

 

[THESEXPISTOL]

C'mon are you guys serious? Of course it's tax related. I always say to my friends that if Monaco had an Olympic team they would have a ridiculous amount of medals per km^2.
Look at the F1 drivers too. Everyone that earns a big amount of money, especially in prizemoneys bases himself at Monaco. Federer & Wawrinka don't have that issues because they sorta live in a banking heaven know as Switzerland. Even Federer owns a house in Dubai, that must tell you something :wink:

 

[uncooling]

C'mon are you guys serious? Of course it's tax related. I always say to my friends that if Monaco had an Olympic team they would have a ridiculous amount of medals per km^2.
Look at the F1 drivers too. Everyone that earns a big amount of money, especially in prizemoneys bases himself at Monaco. Federer & Wawrinka don't have that issues because they sorta live in a banking heaven know as Switzerland. Even Federer owns a house in Dubai, that must tell you something :wink:

What about Nadal living in a country that has higher tax than Serbia, yet stays there?

Does this also tell somerhing about Nadal and his love to his country?

Only 2 players- Djokovic, Berdych out of top 8 have their residence diff. from their nationality and these are the players that dont get sponsors for 10 years or more. Coincidence? Also their image to many fans and players is 'fake' 'cocky' 'arrogant' compared to Nadal and Federer who are described as 'genuine' 'classy' and obviously 'GOAT'

Im glad, though, that many players, sponsors, and tw users know what Djokovic really is, although there are sill a few that think he is not fake.

 

[PaulFCB]

Matthew 6:21 - For where your treasure (money) is, there your heart will be also.

Wow, the bible. Awesome. So much wow.

Look at the F1 drivers too. Everyone that earns a big amount of money, especially in prizemoneys bases himself at Monaco. Federer & Wawrinka don't have that issues because they sorta live in a banking heaven know as Switzerland. Even Federer owns a house in Dubai, that must tell you something :wink:

Recently F1 drivers started choosing Switzerland since they got tired of the small MC apartments and generally the total lack of space over there.
In Switzerland you can get yourself a big *** villa with enough space to have your own ranch... or just enough space so you don't need to squeeze yourself to the bathroom at night....

 

[booson]

It may be tax (I wouldn't recommend Monaco to pay less taxes actually), travel or doping related. A lot of cyclists established themselves in Spain for the weak laws against doping years ago and the still valid protection the constitution grants them against institutional testing at night. That is, according to the law, institutions can't make OOC surprise tests to players in Spain at night. Isn't that nice?

 

[Deleted member 512391]

Tax in Spain is higher than in Serbia.
?

The tax in Serbia is 68% (which includes health insurance, social security and superannuation stuff - all these are mandatory).
I doubt that the tax in Spain is so high.

 

[objectivity]

I was wondering why some players are listed as residents of a country different from their nationality? Here is the top 8 players with their nationality and residence.

1. Nadal (ESP): Spain
2. Djokovic (SRB): Monaco
3. Wawrinka (SUI): Switzerland
4. Federer (SUI): Switzerland
5. Ferrer (ESP): Spain
6. Berdych (CZE): Monaco
7. Del Potro (ARG): Argentina
8. Murray (GBR): England

what is your opinion of this fact?

as a big believer in societal equity, i am very proud of players who choose to pay their fair share of taxes back to society. Rather than running away and residing in tax havens. shameful behavior.

 

[uncooling]

The tax in Serbia is 68% (which includes health insurance, social security and superannuation stuff - all these are mandatory).
I doubt that the tax in Spain is so high.

Payroll Tax:

Spain: 24%-45% + 37% social security taxes
Serbia: 35.8%

Individual Tax:
Spain: 52%
Serbia: 25%

According to your analogy, tax in Spain is 75%+

There's no argument needed to compare tax in Spain vs. Serbia

 

[chjtennis]

Sorry, but I don't think anyone here understands the tax laws of these countries and how the players get paid. Do any of you even know if the "player" gets paid or his "business" gets paid? Where does the money go, through his home countries banking system or straight into an off shore institution. Are they paying local taxes when out side the country, are foreign earning accountable.
For example Nadal wins $2mill, goes into his company holdings based in Switzerland, pays himself $300k, states $300k on his Spanish residential tax sheet minus $200k for coaching team and $50k for expenses and pays local tax on $50k.
Some countries don't apply local taxes on foreign earnings if you do reside there long enough, hence, miners I know don't return to Australia every roster, dodging both Aust & Foreign tax.
England has Tax havens like the Isle of Man. Ireland is now considered a business tax haven with Google & Apple running their EU profits through it.

So to state these countries are used as a tax haven without knowing how the players structure their "businesses" is guessing.

Monaco is nice, maybe they like the ability to walk the streets without being harassed by home town fans. It might suit they're life style. Assumption of tax is ignorant.

It's not an assumption. It's a fact. If you have followed tennis(or any other individual pro-sports) for some time, you are likely to have heard commentators saying some player lives in some country for tax reasons. Not saying what you are saying here is wrong, but it's clear why a lot of these players live or have residency in foreign countries.

 

[chjtennis]

as a big believer in societal equity, i am very proud of players who choose to pay their fair share of taxes back to society. Rather than running away and residing in tax havens. shameful behavior.

It's all about personal beliefs. There are lots of people who think there's no shame in doing that.

 

[Deleted member 512391]

Payroll Tax:

Spain: 24%-45% + 37% social security taxes
Serbia: 35.8%

Individual Tax:
Spain: 52%
Serbia: 25%

According to your analogy, tax in Spain is 75%+

There's no argument needed to compare tax in Spain vs. Serbia

I don't think that you understand my previous comment. You cannot separate payroll taxes from social security taxes and the health insurance, according to Serbian tax law (yes, it's ridiculous, but that's the current law). You (or your employer) have to pay whole amount.
So, if you're fully employed and your net salary is 1000 euros, your employer has pay approximately 1680 euros.

If the mandatory tax in Spain is indeed 75%, then I was wrong.

 

[TheMusicLover]

Of couse, it's all about the taxes they have to pay.

Payroll Tax:

Spain: 24%-45% + 37% social security taxes
Serbia: 35.8%

Individual Tax:
Spain: 52%
Serbia: 25%

According to your analogy, tax in Spain is 75%+

There's no argument needed to compare tax in Spain vs. Serbia

You do know that there is a major problem in Spain (yes, in Spain) with tax evasion?
The amount folks should pay isn't necessarily equal to the amount they actually do pay in reality.

There's also a big difference in how tax regulations are for individuals compared to corporate businesses. As an example: in my country, individuals pay very high taxes, but the tax requirements for corporate businesses is very attractive for the 'big shots' from all over the world (a fact that recieves regular heavy critique, but up till now, nothing gets done about it).

I can assure you that the Rolling Stones and U2 didn't organize the official domicile of their corporations to be located in Amsterdam because of the pretty weather over here.

 

[uncooling]

I don't think that you understand my previous comment. You cannot separate payroll taxes from social security taxes and the health insurance, according to Serbian tax law (yes, it's ridiculous, but that's the current law). You (or your employer) have to pay whole amount.
So, if you're fully employed and your net salary is 1000 euros, your employer has pay approximately 1680 euros.

If the mandatory tax in Spain is indeed 75%, then I was wrong.

regardless of how much you have to pay, changing your residence to avoid it is shameful enough considering how much Djokovic emphasized that he loves his country. It's just another proof that Djokovic likes to act, confirmed by Janowicz, Gulbis and other players.

 

[Deleted member 512391]

regardless of how much you have to pay, changing your residence to avoid it is shameful enough considering how much Djokovic emphasized that he loves his country. It's just another proof that Djokovic likes to act, confirmed by Janowicz, Gulbis and other players.

That's another story, I was just referring to your numbers which I thought were inaccurate.

 

[Tabash]

Sorry, but I don't think anyone here understands the tax laws of these countries and how the players get paid. Do any of you even know if the "player" gets paid or his "business" gets paid? Where does the money go, through his home countries banking system or straight into an off shore institution. Are they paying local taxes when out side the country, are foreign earning accountable.
For example Nadal wins $2mill, goes into his company holdings based in Switzerland, pays himself $300k, states $300k on his Spanish residential tax sheet minus $200k for coaching team and $50k for expenses and pays local tax on $50k.
Some countries don't apply local taxes on foreign earnings if you do reside there long enough, hence, miners I know don't return to Australia every roster, dodging both Aust & Foreign tax.
England has Tax havens like the Isle of Man. Ireland is now considered a business tax haven with Google & Apple running their EU profits through it.

So to state these countries are used as a tax haven without knowing how the players structure their "businesses" is guessing.

Monaco is nice, maybe they like the ability to walk the streets without being harassed by home town fans. It might suit they're life style. Assumption of tax is ignorant.

Exactly.

One reason is the privacy it affords him. 'It's unique. Press photographers are banned from doing unofficial work, and you never, ever, see them here. Nobody bothers me here, and I value that.'
U2 rock star Bono, who I bumped into one evening during filming, summed it up more succinctly: 'Best thing about Monaco? No f****** paparazzi!'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-The-tax-haven-jewels-real-orgasms-fake.html

The lack of paparazzi gets overlooked when it comes to Monaco. That must be a huge attraction. Total privacy, perfect weather, great tennis facilities, there's a lot more upside to MC than just the tax

 

[Tabash]

regardless of how much you have to pay, changing your residence to avoid it is shameful enough considering how much Djokovic emphasized that he loves his country. It's just another proof that Djokovic likes to act, confirmed by Janowicz, Gulbis and other players.

Djokovic can't breathe in Serbia without being photographed and followed. It's not practical for him to live there. His family all still live there and pay taxes with their businesses. All his foundation work is based in Serbia not worldwide or any other countries. So he's putting a lot of his own money into Serbia directly through that.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

Nothing wrong with avoiding taxes. What is wrong is frauds like Bono telling extolling people to pay their "fair" share while they themselves take advantage of every loophole to avoid paying them.

 

[uncooling]

Nothing wrong with avoiding taxes. What is wrong is frauds like Bono telling extolling people to pay their "fair" share while they themselves take advantage of every loophole to avoid paying them.

it's not about breaking laws or committing crime. It's about being ethical and respectful to your country and not "acting" anymore, which fellow players and tennis fans find disgusting.

 

[uncooling]

Exactly.



The lack of paparazzi gets overlooked when it comes to Monaco. That must be a huge attraction. Total privacy, perfect weather, great tennis facilities, there's a lot more upside to MC than just the tax

nice try. so paparazzi stopped Djokovic from living in Serbia and that's why he changed his residency?

 

[Tabash]

nice try. so paparazzi stopped Djokovic from living in Serbia and that's why he changed his residency?

If there were no tax havens in the world, I still don't think he would be living in Serbia, while he's in the middle of a stressful career. Nobody wants that level of scrutiny and hassle in their "down-time". So when going somewhere else, MC with its tax laws is obviously top of the list but yeah, with the paparazzi and freezing winters (which isn't much good for his training) I don't think he'd be living in Serbia during his career, either way.

And don't think I'm exaggerating btw, he was photographed visiting his grandfather's grave.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Sorry, but I don't think anyone here understands the tax laws of these countries and how the players get paid. Do any of you even know if the "player" gets paid or his "business" gets paid? Where does the money go, through his home countries banking system or straight into an off shore institution. Are they paying local taxes when out side the country, are foreign earning accountable.
For example Nadal wins $2mill, goes into his company holdings based in Switzerland, pays himself $300k, states $300k on his Spanish residential tax sheet minus $200k for coaching team and $50k for expenses and pays local tax on $50k.
Some countries don't apply local taxes on foreign earnings if you do reside there long enough, hence, miners I know don't return to Australia every roster, dodging both Aust & Foreign tax.
England has Tax havens like the Isle of Man. Ireland is now considered a business tax haven with Google & Apple running their EU profits through it.

So to state these countries are used as a tax haven without knowing how the players structure their "businesses" is guessing.

Monaco is nice, maybe they like the ability to walk the streets without being harassed by home town fans. It might suit they're life style. Assumption of tax is ignorant.

it is a known fact that monaco is a tax haven just like london and new york. the lifestyle and location are add ons.

 

[Noelan]

Obviously you started this thread to mock Novak and him living in Monte Carlo
For you information , Serbia doesn't have enough quality tennis facilty to support further development for such top player like Djoko is ,espectially in his early years.And he really can't breathe anywhere in Serbia, in the long run ,this would be reflecting in his focus on training and maintaining the status of top player.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

it is a known fact that monaco is a tax haven just like london and new york. the lifestyle and location are add ons.

What! New York has some of the highest taxes anywhere in the US. It is definitely not a tax haven.

 

[booson]

Obviously you started this thread to mock Novak and him living in Monte Carlo

Definitely. He just keep insisting on the same player. Way to deceive in your thread title, OP.