Why are the so many tennis club/academy owners/managers social manipulators bordering sociopathy?

[peoplespeace]

And why are tennis coaches more than willing to do the binding of those people? And why cant most parents of young players see that that is a very unhealthy environment for young people?

Do u only have positive experiences with those people?

 

[sureshs]

Examples?

 

[peoplespeace]

Well since those people are accomplished manipulators, socially And communicatively, they know how to do their dirty business without leaving smoking guns. But u feel almost immediately when u have stepped info one of those environments. If they can take ur money and u are willing to act like a zombie or robot, then u will not get in harms way. But if u step out of that role that they have scripted for u, then u will see/feel all those nasty trick they have in their bag. I have never been in the inner circle of those people, so I can only give u the perspective of someone who has done his best to stay real And fight back. Several times have I had to threaten to contact the national federation, ITF or even the police. Then they usually soften up and leave u alone or even try and charm u......while takling ur money!

 

[onehandbh]

Well since those people are accomplished manipulators, socially And communicatively, they know how to do their dirty business without leaving smoking guns. But u feel almost immediately when u have stepped info one of those environments. If they can take ur money and u are willing to act like a zombie or robot, then u will not get in harms way. But if u step out of that role that they have scripted for u, then u will see/feel all those nasty trick they have in their bag. I have never been in the inner circle of those people, so I can only give u the perspective of someone who has done his best to stay real And fight back. Several times have I had to threaten to contact the national federation, ITF or even the police. Then they usually soften up and leave u alone or even try and charm u......while takling ur money!

I still don't understand your example. Can you give more details in your example of what actually happened?
(you can change the names of those involved to protect their identities if you want. e.g. replace 'peoplespeace' with 'peakingpeas')

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Well since those people are accomplished manipulators, socially And communicatively, they know how to do their dirty business without leaving smoking guns. But u feel almost immediately when u have stepped info one of those environments. If they can take ur money and u are willing to act like a zombie or robot, then u will not get in harms way. But if u step out of that role that they have scripted for u, then u will see/feel all those nasty trick they have in their bag. I have never been in the inner circle of those people, so I can only give u the perspective of someone who has done his best to stay real And fight back. Several times have I had to threaten to contact the national federation, ITF or even the police. Then they usually soften up and leave u alone or even try and charm u......while takling ur money!

standard business model.

 

[tennis_balla]

Interested also in hearing a proper example of what the OP means and has experienced.
Isn’t the OP the one who wanted to try being a professional at 40 like 10 years ago?

 

[ChaelAZ]

And why are tennis coaches more than willing to do the binding of those people? And why cant most parents of young players see that that is a very unhealthy environment for young people?

Do u only have positive experiences with those people?

Spent years in juniors and high school development programs, both as a parent and working with kids. I don't find most academies, clubs, coaches, or the like are bad personally. There are a few bad, some generally good, and then a few exceptional. The choice is yours though where you and any youth spend their time and money.

To me it sounds like you had a bad experience and are just painting everyone with that same broad stroke. That kind of hyperbole is exactly what is wrong with most conversations anymore, driven by people feeding on media and social media sensationalism. Seems everything is all or nothing mindsets.

 

[peoplespeace]

Im interested in changing things, fight back against the malignant narcissists of the world. I dont want to vent for the sake of venting. A lot of people with actual inside experience could contribute, but either they are still part of that dirty business or they are scared of being ridiculed of be considered a failure or weak. Im not afraid of fighting evil alone but its futile, u cant will alone, plus its tough psycologically. So im not going to give concrete examples, as they are not smoking guns. It will just invite all the rats on the sideline to come out of their holes.

First I want to hear from people who can relate, or even people with inside knowledge who have had a change of heart and are willing to talk about it. And then we can take it from there. That will also make the rats hesitate.

As Ian from essential tennis said "most tennis lessons are a rip off". The root of the problem is there. Whereever there is money to be made by ripping people off, people with a certain character will go. And wjen they come together in a group, it can get really ugly, cus they will do everything to protect their scam and feed their narcissim.

 

[peoplespeace]

Interested also in hearing a proper example of what the OP means and has experienced.
Isn’t the OP the one who wanted to try being a professional at 40 like 10 years ago?

The plan was to get an ATP point. I was ignorant at the time. However, I trust my talent and it could still happen, but im not obsessed with it. My goal is to feel competent.

 

[sureshs]

Im interested in changing things, fight back against the malignant narcissists of the world. I dont want to vent for the sake of venting. A lot of people with actual inside experience could contribute, but either they are still part of that dirty business or they are scared of being ridiculed of be considered a failure or weak. Im not afraid of fighting evil alone but its futile, u cant will alone, plus its tough psycologically. So im not going to give concrete examples, as they are not smoking guns. It will just invite all the rats on the sideline to come out of their holes.

First I want to hear from people who can relate, or even people with inside knowledge who have had a change of heart and are willing to talk about it. And then we can take it from there. That will also make the rats hesitate.

As Ian from essential tennis said "most tennis lessons are a rip off". The root of the problem is there. Whereever there is money to be made by ripping people off, people with a certain character will go. And wjen they come together in a group, it can get really ugly, cus they will do everything to protect their scam and feed their narcissim.

In junior tennis, tournaments provide immediate feedback on how the kid is playing. What is preventing parents to move on to another coach?

 

[ChaelAZ]

Im interested in changing things, fight back against the malignant narcissists of the world. I dont want to vent for the sake of venting. A lot of people with actual inside experience could contribute, but either they are still part of that dirty business or they are scared of being ridiculed of be considered a failure or weak. Im not afraid of fighting evil alone but its futile, u cant will alone, plus its tough psycologically. So im not going to give concrete examples, as they are not smoking guns. It will just invite all the rats on the sideline to come out of their holes.

First I want to hear from people who can relate, or even people with inside knowledge who have had a change of heart and are willing to talk about it. And then we can take it from there. That will also make the rats hesitate.

As Ian from essential tennis said "most tennis lessons are a rip off". The root of the problem is there. Whereever there is money to be made by ripping people off, people with a certain character will go. And wjen they come together in a group, it can get really ugly, cus they will do everything to protect their scam and feed their narcissim.

Thanks for taking this on for everyone.
Let us know how it goes.

 

[sureshs]

As Ian from essential tennis said "most tennis lessons are a rip off".

What about his lessons? Does his comment also apply to himself?

 

[heninfan99]

And why are tennis coaches more than willing to do the binding of those people? And why cant most parents of young players see that that is a very unhealthy environment for young people?

Do u only have positive experiences with those people?

good question...likely the skills often required to get the funds needed

 

[ChaelAZ]

What about his lessons? Does his comment also apply to himself?

 

[peoplespeace]

What about his lessons? Does his comment also apply to himself?

At least he is keeping it real - plus people can see that he is no pro player. Plus he said it in a long video with his colleagues about that topic. Thus opening a respectful debate. If tjat is not the way to start, then what is?

 

[peoplespeace]

In junior tennis, tournaments provide immediate feedback on how the kid is playing. What is preventing parents to move on to another coach?

Easier said than done. Plus, what scammer does not have an answer ready on hand for parentes questioning results. And its not just about results. But ok, u think everything is fine and dandy, good for u.

 

[sureshs]

Easier said than done. Plus, what scammer does not have an answer ready on hand for parentes questioning results. And its not just about results. But ok, u think everything is fine and dandy, good for u.

That is why I asked you to provide examples.

 

[peoplespeace]

That is why I asked you to provide examples.

If u, after a long life with tennis, have nothing more to say on the subject than asking me to provide concrete examples for u to opine on, then I dont think that u are a very usefull ally in the fight against malignant manipulative narcissists. Just enjoy life and do no harm and let other people fight the necessary fights.

 

[sureshs]

If u, after a long life with tennis, have nothing more to say on the subject than asking me to provide concrete examples for u to opine on, then I dont think that u are a very usefull ally in the fight against malignant manipulative narcissists. Just enjoy life and do no harm and let other people fight the necessary fights.

I need concrete examples. Rafa Nadal Academy students are winning Junior Grand Slams. It would be good to know what kind of academy you are talking about.

 

[zaph]

I kind of get what you are getting at. I saw a kid being coached on another court and they were really being worked hard. The kid must have been 8 or 9 and even I could tell they were hopeless. Yet both the coach and their mother were working them like they were a future grandslam champion. It was not pleasant to witness.

 

[peoplespeace]

I kind of get what you are getting at. I saw a kid being coached on another court and they were really being worked hard. The kid must have been 8 or 9 and even I could tell they were hopeless. Yet both the coach and their mother were working them like they were a future grandslam champion. It was not pleasant to witness.

And I can only imagine on how the coach must have manipulated the mother to be able to make her pay for the "coaching".

 

[nyta2]

standard business model.

one of many anyway...
other business models have natural "moats" to guard the business against competition (eg supply chains, secret recipes, intellectual properly, etc...)
what do tennis facilities have? some places have a name/reputation "mcenroe academy"... but most pros & students are constantly bouncing around (pros all want to do their own thing, so the club is competing within itself)
in ny anyway, i'm always impressed that tennis clubs can stay open given how much real estate is (which in turn jacks up the prices of lessons, court rentals, etc...), and how much competition there is for a relatively small paying tennis community
so i can see how/why directors&owners of clubs do whatever they can to keep their students, to the point, in the OP's eyes, they appear to be manipulative & sociaopathic

 

[ollinger]

Dumbest thread I've seen in a long time. OP can't be bothered to actually make or substantiate his premise here, too busy being taken advantage of, I guess. HE IS A VICTIM and cannot be bothered trying to be coherent.

 

[peoplespeace]

one of many anyway...
other business models have natural "moats" to guard the business against competition (eg supply chains, secret recipes, intellectual properly, etc...)
what do tennis facilities have? some places have a name/reputation "mcenroe academy"... but most pros & students are constantly bouncing around (pros all want to do their own thing, so the club is competing within itself)
in ny anyway, i'm always impressed that tennis clubs can stay open given how much real estate is (which in turn jacks up the prices of lessons, court rentals, etc...), and how much competition there is for a relatively small paying tennis community
so i can see how/why directors&owners of clubs do whatever they can to keep their students, to the point, in the OP's eyes, they appear to be manipulative & sociaopathic

Very intelligent reply. Tx for keeping it real and serious.

In NY i have played at the amazing and amazingly run facility in central park. I met a complete hack there. Then a few days later I saw him in a club on the upper West side with a student, and elderly woman. He walked right past me, pretendig not to see me. Lol

I westchester i played 1.5 hrs indoor for 208 usd with a ttw guy. Was that u?!

 

[peoplespeace]

Dumbest thread I've seen in a long time. OP can't be bothered to actually make or substantiate his premise here, too busy being taken advantage of, I guess. HE IS A VICTIM and cannot be bothered trying to be coherent.

Id give a serious reply if u werent succes a minion.

 

[nyta2]

Very intelligent reply. Tx for keeping it real and serious.

In NY i have played at the amazing and amazingly run facility in central park. I met a complete hack there. Then a few days later I saw him in a club on the upper West side with a student, and elderly woman. He walked right past me, pretendig not to see me. Lol

I westchester i played 1.5 hrs indoor for 208 usd with a ttw guy. Was that u?!

lol, i’m i’m westchester, but i don’t think i’ve ever payed 208 (split i presume) for 1.5h. even Tcr & cary leeds are only 90-95/h during prime time. wtc is 110 prime.

where the heck did you play at 138/h?

vanderbilt is the only club I can think of that changes up to 300+/h

 

[peoplespeace]

lol, i’m i’m westchester, but i don’t think i’ve ever payed 208 (split i presume) for 1.5h. even Tcr & cary leeds are only 90-95/h during prime time. wtc is 110 prime.

where the heck did you play at 138/h?

vanderbilt is the only club I can think of that changes up to 300+/h

Didnt u play with a ttw guy some 10 yrs ago? We were supposed to play outdoor but it started raining and we went indoor. I lost in the tiebreak!

 

[nyta2]

Didnt u play with a ttw guy some 10 yrs ago? We were supposed to play outdoor but it started raining and we went indoor. I lost in the tiebreak!

oh yeah! I ended up becoming a member of that club (sportime) where the rate is now half as a member. we def played longer than 1.5h. I think we started that way, then went over to like 2h or 2h 15m, because our match was going so long. also they are now less strict for time when i’m a member/regular.

you back in nyc? let’s play! that was a really close match, coulda gone either way.

 

[peoplespeace]

oh yeah! I ended up becoming a member of that club (sportime) where the rate is now half as a member. we def played longer than 1.5h. I think we started that way, then went over to like 2h or 2h 15m, because our match was going so long. also they are now less strict for time when i’m a member/regular.

you back in nyc? let’s play! that was a really close match, coulda gone either way.

Haha, glad that was u! Oh yeah we extended our time to find a winner! that was a good fight! Im on vacation Spain, playing 3 hrs a day. When I go back to NY one day, Ill definetely send u a message and we'll have a rematch! Do u play alot?

 

[nyta2]

Haha, glad that was u! Oh yeah we extended our time to find a winner! that was a good fight! Im on vacation Spain, playing 3 hrs a day. When I go back to NY one day, Ill definetely send u a message and we'll have a rematch! Do u play alot?

nice, enjoy your stay in spain... which part? i was in barcelona a couple years back before the pandemic... visited a couple famous clubs, and got to play alot (not quite 3h, but definitely daily). i've been playing a decent amount, but fat now (working on that)... so maybe by the time you're back i'll be svelte again.

anywho, back to your original question,... i was considering investing in a fitness franchise a while back... so spent alot of time hanging out with fitness professionals to see what the life was like.... it's the same thing. the only thing really keeping people is a trainer's personality. you almost want/need cult like following it seemed like, else you spend alot of your time just finding more clients (rather than just training them). some folks have their niche (eg. trx, boxing, cycling, etc...), similar some tennis coaches have their niche style... but it's still a fight to attract people, and can be more of a fight keeping them... in both industries i've seen some bad mouthing to get clients... but i feel those folks don't last long i think (because if they need to resort to bad mouthing, then it means they can't rely on their quality to speak for them). also in both industries, it always seems like the bad ones are the ones doing crappy things like manipulation... especially if you have a client that is willing to pay nyc tennis lesson prices, and come back 3x a week... but at that point you probably aren't just doing tennis lessons, you better be entertaining, ego stroking, or whatever the client needs/wants to keep coming back to you (beyond tennis)

 

[peoplespeace]

nice, enjoy your stay in spain... which part? i was in barcelona a couple years back before the pandemic... visited a couple famous clubs, and got to play alot (not quite 3h, but definitely daily). i've been playing a decent amount, but fat now (working on that)... so maybe by the time you're back i'll be svelte again.

anywho, back to your original question,... i was considering investing in a fitness franchise a while back... so spent alot of time hanging out with fitness professionals to see what the life was like.... it's the same thing. the only thing really keeping people is a trainer's personality. you almost want/need cult like following it seemed like, else you spend alot of your time just finding more clients (rather than just training them). some folks have their niche (eg. trx, boxing, cycling, etc...), similar some tennis coaches have their niche style... but it's still a fight to attract people, and can be more of a fight keeping them... in both industries i've seen some bad mouthing to get clients... but i feel those folks don't last long i think (because if they need to resort to bad mouthing, then it means they can't rely on their quality to speak for them). also in both industries, it always seems like the bad ones are the ones doing crappy things like manipulation... especially if you have a client that is willing to pay nyc tennis lesson prices, and come back 3x a week... but at that point you probably aren't just doing tennis lessons, you better be entertaining, ego stroking, or whatever the client needs/wants to keep coming back to you (beyond tennis)

Im in Malaga. Found a nice club. Im only playing with other members that ive been set up with so I have not had to face the whole pro coach and academy atmossphere in this club....luckily!

Interesting comparison with the fitness world. Some 10 yrs ago a was going to fitness centres when I was travelling and I always noticed the instructors doing these absurdly complicated excersises with their very out of shape clients. And it was obvious that the instructors really appreciated if u looked very impressed and respectful when the par came and did something on the adjecent machine! The whole cult following sounds.....hmm....interesting haha

So I see alot of room for manipulation but also some differences. Most fittness instructors are actually sufficienty skillfull to guarantee succes of his client provided that the client is motivated and discipliner, which I guess is the biggest hurdle. In tennis the are so many coaches who are not and have never been playing and a decent level, lets say 5.0 or 5.5. These coaches actually want their clients to stay the same level and just become a human ego stroking (im gonna remember that term haha) ball machine.

And then u have ur academies which is a completely different beast. I see alot of youngsters having been turned into young robots/zombies and if u suddenly find yourself in such an environment eg becus u are playing everyday on the same courts it can get ugly becus of all the systems of social and communicative control that have been set up etc etc And if u start making alot of quick progress, lets say within a few weeks, so that u actually start out rallying the coach then they might try and hire u or the opposite, harass u, or even both! Arrrrgh!

 

[tennis_balla]

The plan was to get an ATP point. I was ignorant at the time. However, I trust my talent and it could still happen, but im not obsessed with it. My goal is to feel competent.

In the early 2000’s you could fly to obscure places and if you’re lucky qualify or be directly in main draw cause hardly anyone arrived. Of course the following year that tournament would be packed

It’s good to dream but it won’t happen, its so competitive out there and lots of great players.

If you want me to be honest, I’ll give you this advice from playing tennis all my life, playing competitively, and now coaching for many years.

You’re a coaches wet dream.

What I mean by that is you have money to spend, are overly ambitious with unrealistic goals, and a drive to try and achieve them. Your best bet is to not disclose what your intentions are, take lessons, hit with good juniors and NCAA players (if your level is that high, I don’t know never seen you play) and do all this under the radar otherwise you will get hosed by most coaches. They’ll see a sucker coming a mile away, and they’ll take advantage of it.

Hell I’d tell you you’re nuts but if you insisted on still taking lessons from I’d help you any way I can. However, you have to realize a coach can only help you so much. You have to be able to perform. It isn’t about if I find the right coach or magic formula. As a friend of mine said once, there are lots of great players with not so great coaches. And there are lots of great coaches with not so great players.

 

[peoplespeace]

In the early 2000’s you could fly to obscure places and if you’re lucky qualify or be directly in main draw cause hardly anyone arrived. Of course the following year that tournament would be packed

It’s good to dream but it won’t happen, its so competitive out there and lots of great players.

If you want me to be honest, I’ll give you this advice from playing tennis all my life, playing competitively, and now coaching for many years.

You’re a coaches wet dream.

What I mean by that is you have money to spend, are overly ambitious with unrealistic goals, and a drive to try and achieve them. Your best bet is to not disclose what your intentions are, take lessons, hit with good juniors and NCAA players (if your level is that high, I don’t know never seen you play) and do all this under the radar otherwise you will get hosed by most coaches. They’ll see a sucker coming a mile away, and they’ll take advantage of it.

Hell I’d tell you you’re nuts but if you insisted on still taking lessons from I’d help you any way I can. However, you have to realize a coach can only help you so much. You have to be able to perform. It isn’t about if I find the right coach or magic formula. As a friend of mine said once, there are lots of great players with not so great coaches. And there are lots of great coaches with not so great players.

Firstly, ur completely off mark when it comes to ur judgement of me. Second, prof that ur not another industry minion by mentioning the top 10 nasty tricks, manipulations or episodes that u have experienced in the coaching world. Yeah, thats what I thought.

 

[nyta2]

Hell I’d tell you you’re nuts but if you insisted on still taking lessons from I’d help you any way I can. However, you have to realize a coach can only help you so much. You have to be able to perform. It isn’t about if I find the right coach or magic formula. As a friend of mine said once, there are lots of great players with not so great coaches. And there are lots of great coaches with not so great players.

rather than saying he's nuts, i'd just give a rough plan with tangible goals, and let the person decide themselves.
no idea what that would be at get an ATP point, but recently a girl asked me to teach her tennis, with the goal of making her tennis team by fall.
her current plan was to take like 10 lessons practicing only once a week.
not knowing how good the team was, i asked her to ask her coach of that was feasible..
otherwise i presumed she was competing for a spot against academy kids, and said he needed to up her practice time to 10-20h a week, and even then she would be competing with kids that have been playing since they were under 10.
i haven't heard from her....

 

[sureshs]

in ny anyway, i'm always impressed that tennis clubs can stay open given how much real estate is (which in turn jacks up the prices of lessons, court rentals, etc...), and how much competition there is for a relatively small paying tennis community

They will soon be replaced by Pickleball. I was volunteering at a club this weekend at a tournament (Brandon Nakashima was there) and the new expansion plans for the club consist of an event center and more Pickleball courts.

On Saturday, a USPTA conference was in progress in the same place. The last talk was by two Tennis-turned-Pickleball pros talking about opportunities to get certified in Pickleball.

Same day, my club's board was attending an official City meeting to raise concerns about the recent attempts by the Pickleball community to get public tennis courts converted to Pickle or at least dual-lined, which makes them nasty to play and rules out having sanctioned USTA tournaments. We the club members were given a link to sign a pro forma letter to the Mayor asking for preservation of tennis courts.

It has gotten that bad.

 

[nyta2]

They will soon be replaced by Pickleball. I was volunteering at a club this weekend at a tournament (Brandon Nakashima was there) and the new expansion plans for the club consist of an event center and more Pickleball courts.

On Saturday, a USPTA conference was in progress in the same place. The last talk was by two Tennis-turned-Pickleball pros talking about opportunities to get certified in Pickleball.

Same day, my club's board was attending an official City meeting to raise concerns about the recent attempts by the Pickleball community to get public tennis courts converted to Pickle or at least dual-lined, which makes them nasty to play and rules out having sanctioned USTA tournaments. We the club members were given a link to sign a pro forma letter to the Mayor asking for preservation of tennis courts.

It has gotten that bad.

pickle ball does seem waaay more accessible to the majority of people… tennis, the way it’s played now, requires far more work to get up to speed.

can’t wait for chas pickleball diagrams!

 

[sureshs]

pickle ball does seem waaay more accessible to the majority of people… tennis, the way it’s played now, requires far more work to get up to speed.

'Noise pollution' of senior citizen pickleball has suburb outraged (nypost.com)

 

[sureshs]

Im in Malaga.

I didn't know where it is so I looked it up. It seems to be in Spain. Why don't you move to Mallorca to the Rafa Nadal Academy and try to get coached in person by Uncle Toni?

 

[tennis_balla]

rather than saying he's nuts, i'd just give a rough plan with tangible goals, and let the person decide themselves.
no idea what that would be at get an ATP point, but recently a girl asked me to teach her tennis, with the goal of making her tennis team by fall.
her current plan was to take like 10 lessons practicing only once a week.
not knowing how good the team was, i asked her to ask her coach of that was feasible..
otherwise i presumed she was competing for a spot against academy kids, and said he needed to up her practice time to 10-20h a week, and even then she would be competing with kids that have been playing since they were under 10.
i haven't heard from her....

Its simple, if you’re over 40 and never previously played at any professional level and your goal is to get an ATP Point, that’s nuts
I’m being very realistic here. If he had a chance to do it, he would of gotten one already. The OP has been at this for a while, and most of what I’ve been hearing from him these past years is how bad coaching is around the world. While I do agree with him to a degree that a lot of coaches are not worth the fee they charge, I see a pattern here that keeps getting repeated.

 

[tennis_balla]

Firstly, ur completely off mark when it comes to ur judgement of me. Second, prof that ur not another industry minion by mentioning the top 10 nasty tricks, manipulations or episodes that u have experienced in the coaching world. Yeah, thats what I thought.

Top 10 nasty tricks, manipulations? Those happen everywhere. Go buy a car and see how manipulative a salesman can be for example. Most tennis coaches are nothing but glorified salesman. I unfortunately work with one at my club and try not to laugh and shake my head every time he runs his little sales pitch during his lessons about how great he can make his players be. Dumb people eat it up, smart ones see through the BS and look elsewhere. That’s life. Buyer beware.

 

[norcal]

Isn't OP the one who thinks many ATP matches are rigged?

If so, OP just needs to find a TD of a futures event, pay him to get a WC, then pay his 1st rd opponent to throw the match - OP gets his ATP point AND proves all the matches are rigged.

Spoiler

jealous OP is playing on red clay

 

[tennis_balla]

Isn't OP the one who thinks many ATP matches are rigged?

If so, OP just needs to find a TD of a futures event, pay him to get a WC, then pay his 1st rd opponent to throw the match - OP gets his ATP point AND proves all the matches are rigged.

Spoiler

jealous OP is playing on red clay

It used to be this way back in the early 2000’s where players of rich parents would pay $5000 for a wildcard into a Challenger event, main draw. This was done a lot in tournaments in Eastern Europe. You lose first round but get your ATP point.
For some this was way more economical because if you travel, grind through qualies, grind a main draw match at a Futures event then finally get your point maybe 5-6 tournaments down the road when you achieve that it’ll cost you more than $5k.
With an ATP point, you were automatically in main draw in a fair bit of Futures tournaments, unless lots of better players showed up. This lasted you a full year. So for many it was worth it, especially if they could build off that with more points.

They have since cracked down on this.

 

[nyta2]

Its simple, if you’re over 40 and never previously played at any professional level and your goal is to get an ATP Point, that’s nuts
I’m being very realistic here. If he had a chance to do it, he would of gotten one already. The OP has been at this for a while, and most of what I’ve been hearing from him these past years is how bad coaching is around the world. While I do agree with him to a degree that a lot of coaches are not worth the fee they charge, I see a pattern here that keeps getting repeated.

I agree with you… i’m just saying i’ll never say it’s not possible, and just outline the things I think need to happen which would be impossible for me,… and let the other person draw their own conclusions… who am I to say what’s possible or not possible for another person. that said, if I were in vegas and forced to bet, i’m going all in against ;p

 

[nyta2]

Isn't OP the one who thinks many ATP matches are rigged?

If so, OP just needs to find a TD of a futures event, pay him to get a WC, then pay his 1st rd opponent to throw the match - OP gets his ATP point AND proves all the matches are rigged.

Spoiler

jealous OP is playing on red clay

at the lower levels i’ve read there’s quite a bit of gambling, and matches being thrown, especially if the odds are for you, and you have someone to reward you for your loss.

I imagine it would be possible to pay your way to 1 atp point if you can repay quadruple a players expenses for them to throw the match. if I had money to burn that would be a fun experiment.

 

[tennis_balla]

It’s actually quite simple, if you’re looking to play Futures tournaments and you can‘t smoke a 16 yr old playing Grade 5 ITF Juniors 6-1 6-1, don’t even bother showing up.

 

[Niwrad0]

Im interested in changing things, fight back against the malignant narcissists of the world. I dont want to vent for the sake of venting. A lot of people with actual inside experience could contribute, but either they are still part of that dirty business or they are scared of being ridiculed of be considered a failure or weak. Im not afraid of fighting evil alone but its futile, u cant will alone, plus its tough psycologically. So im not going to give concrete examples, as they are not smoking guns. It will just invite all the rats on the sideline to come out of their holes.

First I want to hear from people who can relate, or even people with inside knowledge who have had a change of heart and are willing to talk about it. And then we can take it from there. That will also make the rats hesitate.

As Ian from essential tennis said "most tennis lessons are a rip off". The root of the problem is there. Whereever there is money to be made by ripping people off, people with a certain character will go. And wjen they come together in a group, it can get really ugly, cus they will do everything to protect their scam and feed their narcissim.

Most people have some degree of empathy, and if you start acting very defensive, others will act defensive, ie malignant for some, in return.

Interestingly the nicest people you mean might be cold blooded murderers with absolutely no empathy a la American Psycho.

Try and find some common ground and assuming they’re not killing strippers by night in their free time, they’ll try and find some common ground too. Of course they’re not going to bend over immediately but it’ll certainly be more productive to work on empathy. Venting is very useful and important for many people but cannot be the only outlet for your frustrations

 

[peoplespeace]

Most people have some degree of empathy, and if you start acting very defensive, others will act defensive, ie malignant for some, in return.

Interestingly the nicest people you mean might be cold blooded murderers with absolutely no empathy a la American Psycho.

Try and find some common ground and assuming they’re not killing strippers by night in their free time, they’ll try and find some common ground too. Of course they’re not going to bend over immediately but it’ll certainly be more productive to work on empathy. Venting is very useful and important for many people but cannot be the only outlet for your frustrations

I appreciate ur intentions as well as ur insights, however u off complete off the mark re how I behave as well as the behavior of the people im talking about and their environment.