Why are there no Grass Masters series?

LanceStern

Professional
And for that point, why is there so little time allocated for grass tournaments? One month? While clay gets 3 months and 3-4 master series events and hard court gets 4-5 months and countless masters?
 

gj011

Banned
We talked about this many times.
Not enough time between RG and Wimbledon and neither of two big ones are willing to move.
 

tonyg11

Rookie
in all my time watching tennis since the 80s i have never understood why they stacked the french and wimbledon 2 weeks apart. It's the most idiotic thing in tennis.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
It would be nice, but the lack of a grass Masters is hardly the calamity people make it out to be. Tennis will do fine without the addition of a grass Masters.

But, to answer the question, I think it's a lot of things.

(1) It's not a priority for the ATP. Clearly, if they wanted a grass Masters, they could make more of an effort to get one.

(2) The inadequacy of the the current facilities - Queen's and Halle. Masters tournament venues have to meet certain standards in regards to stadium capacity, etc. Halle and Queen's don't, and they are either unwilling or unable to upgrade.

(3) If not Queens or Halle, then the ATP could add an additional tournament, but there is not enough time between the French and Wimbledon for such a tournament in addition to Queens and Halle. To make more time, The ITF, which runs the Slams, would need to move the French a week earlier, and/or move Wimbledon a week later. The ITF has not said it is willing to do so, and the French and Wimbledon have not indicated that they would allow such a move without protest. Also, if Wimbledon it moved to a later date, the summer tournaments either get squeezed or one needs to be dropped and/or the USO needs to move a week later, which will never happen since the USTA isn't going to give up that prime Labor Day weekend as the middle weekend. Additionally, it costs a lot of money to start up a new Masters tournament, build a facility, and sustain it

(4) No real "movement" among the tennis powers or players to do so. We on TW may raise the issue and the lack of a grass Masters seems to bother some to a high degree, but I've never read anything about substantive "anger" among players or tennis organizers to change the status quo.
 

tudwell

Legend
We talked about this many times.
Not enough time between RG and Wimbledon and neither of two big ones are willing to move.
I don't see why it would be necessary to put it in that time frame. Why have "seasons" at all? There's not reason clay has to be shoved into one month of the year. Spread the stuff out.
 

ferocious4hand

Semi-Pro
how come no one mention $? I'd speculate grass courts are much more expensive to maintain than any other courts. how many grass court clubs are out there? not many...
 

gj011

Banned
I don't see why it would be necessary to put it in that time frame. Why have "seasons" at all? There's not reason clay has to be shoved into one month of the year. Spread the stuff out.
I don't think players would like and agree to that. Also quality of tennis would suffer because of constant back and forth surface changes.
 

All-rounder

Legend
They need to exchange them like they did with madrid and shanghai swap sum clay and hardcourts for grass master events
 

gj011

Banned
Either one, i'd prefer if it was clay, but one things for certain, there should be one on grass.
There are 6 Masters on hard courts (4 outdoors, 2 indoors, although Shanghai could be outdoors if they open the roof) and only 2 1/2 on clay (MC is not a real Masters any more).

So I think the choice here is obvious.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
It's not that they can't "exchange" as they did with Shanghai, but they still need the facility, the money and the time, which no one has come up with (or tried to come up with).
 

All-rounder

Legend
There are 6 Masters on hard courts (4 outdoors, 2 indoors, although Shanghai could be outdoors if they open the roof) and only 2 1/2 on clay (MC is not a real Masters any more).

So I think the choice here is obvious.
2 1/2?? MC not real masters?? what are you saying if you was to say Hamburg then i could agree with you
 

tudwell

Legend
I don't think players would like and agree to that. Also quality of tennis would suffer because of constant back and forth surface changes.
I don't know. Does it really take a player weeks to get used to a surface? And not all courts of the same surface type are the same, by any means. Rome, for example, is probably faster than some hard courts. They have to adjust every single tournament anyway. I don't think it would too difficult.

But it'll never happen. Just idle speculation on my part.
 

vtmike

Banned
Why do you have to troll in every single thread you post? Unbelievable.
LMAO!! Try doing something original for a change...I was clearly joking there...You on the other hand are very much serious about your hate towards Federer in every thread...
 

gj011

Banned
2 1/2?? MC not real masters?? what are you saying if you was to say Hamburg then i could agree with you
I should have said, since this year.
The MC is the only non mandatory Masters now (that is why Federer was scheduled to skip it), also its results this year are listed in ATP 500 category not ATP 1000 like other masters, look at the any player breakdown on ATP site. Djokovic for example:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/players/playerprofiles/pointsbreakdown.asp?player=D643

This is a compromise since ATP wanted to downgrade MC to non Masters (ATP 500, like Hamburg), but players and the tournament complained.
 
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shadows

Legend
Extend the "grass season" past wimby, re-instate hamburg as a masters and have it played on grass to round things out, sorted >_>
 

Nuke

Hall of Fame
in all my time watching tennis since the 80s i have never understood why they stacked the french and wimbledon 2 weeks apart. It's the most idiotic thing in tennis.
It's a dirty America plot. The French is the Memorial day tounament. Wimbledon is the Independence Day tournament. The US Open is the Labor Day tournament.
 

seffina

G.O.A.T.
Extend the "grass season" past wimby, re-instate hamburg as a masters and have it played on grass to round things out, sorted >_>
So you're saying we should add an additional tenth Masters event? Should they make it optional? Or perhaps make one of the hard court Masters optional like they've done with Monte Carlo. I would choose Cincinnati as the optional Masters event then even though it's my favorite (I live near it and can attend). Only because there are three American Masters events and it would give a well deserved respite and we could make the space to extend the grass season. Or not.

I would love a grass masters if it wasn't clear from my post. It's my favorite surface to watch and my favorite tournament has always been Wimbledon (fast, slow, medium, whatever).
 
How many grass courts are there in the world? Actually a better question might be how many countries have grass courts? Then lets see if we need a masters on grass. What we probably need to have is a South American masters on clay.
 

leonidas1982

Hall of Fame
How many grass courts are there in the world? Actually a better question might be how many countries have grass courts? Then lets see if we need a masters on grass. What we probably need to have is a South American masters on clay.
UK, Denmark, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany.
 

shadows

Legend
So you're saying we should add an additional tenth Masters event? Should they make it optional? Or perhaps make one of the hard court Masters optional like they've done with Monte Carlo. I would choose Cincinnati as the optional Masters event then even though it's my favorite (I live near it and can attend). Only because there are three American Masters events and it would give a well deserved respite and we could make the space to extend the grass season. Or not.
something like that, I didn't really think on the post much aside from where you could try squeeze one in, it was sort of on the fly. If it was to happen it shouldn't be optional, a hardcourt masters (one of the ones post wimby/pre uso) being made optional instead would be a more logical move towards balancing the seasons a little more imo.
 

Chuck772

New User
I think that the French should be moved back 2 weeks or Wimbledon moved foreward 2 weeks, or both, then the Gerry Weber open should be made a Masters series (with a sponsor) and the Queens club should be made a 500 series.
 
And for that point, why is there so little time allocated for grass tournaments? One month? While clay gets 3 months and 3-4 master series events and hard court gets 4-5 months and countless masters?
Too many hardcourt MS, the hardcourts helped to ruin grass. That is one reason they started rolling the grass.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
If there were 3 MS on grass in the past 10 years, Fed would have won a lot more shields.
 
They're discussing, and probably will end up, pushing Wimbledon back a week. This would open up the possibility of a grass Masters 1000 prior to Wimbledon, but then again it's only a week.

Needless to say Shanghai shouldn't be a Masters. Bump it down to 500 and find a suitable location for a grass Masters. The problem is: where?
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
They're discussing, and probably will end up, pushing Wimbledon back a week. This would open up the possibility of a grass Masters 1000 prior to Wimbledon, but then again it's only a week.
Wonder which grass tourney would get the upgrade to Masters level? At the moment, all grass tournies are 250s with the exception of Wimbledon.

Needless to say Shanghai shouldn't be a Masters. Bump it down to 500 and find a suitable location for a grass Masters. The problem is: where?
The ATP had an agreement with Shanghai that it would become a Masters tournament to compensate for the loss of the WTF to London in 2009. So it seems unlikely they will downgrade it.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
The ATP had an agreement with Shanghai that it would become a Masters tournament to compensate for the loss of the WTF to London in 2009. So it seems unlikely they will downgrade it.
They're discussing, and probably will end up, pushing Wimbledon back a week. This would open up the possibility of a grass Masters 1000 prior to Wimbledon, but then again it's only a week.

Needless to say Shanghai shouldn't be a Masters. Bump it down to 500 and find a suitable location for a grass Masters. The problem is: where?
If Shanghai is out of the question then I think they should replace Monte Carlo. Since we already have 3 clay MS and MC is non-mandatory, an ATP500 equivalent, they shouldn't have any problem giving up this event for a grass MS.
 

Fee

Legend
I think that the French should be moved back 2 weeks or Wimbledon moved foreward 2 weeks, or both, then the Gerry Weber open should be made a Masters series (with a sponsor) and the Queens club should be made a 500 series.

Solid bump of a 3 year old thread.
 
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